RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (Full Version)

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edwardvulture -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/13/2014 19:55:02)

quote:

It's also bringing back some older players like me, because we see the game and go "I bet i could make a near 100% win rate build with this new stuff".

Older players like this will only drive away new players if loses are kept track of.



GearzHeadz -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/13/2014 20:10:49)

Why do you think this. Its the fact of losing that bothers most players, not the fact that their losses are record.



edwardvulture -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/13/2014 20:22:12)

But if loses do not get recorded anymore they still get exp and credits which makes them a winner.



GearzHeadz -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/13/2014 20:32:26)

No. It doesn't. They lost. Losing is losing.



edwardvulture -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/13/2014 20:38:47)

It just says defeated but you get xp and creds for just playing. Thats what we need more of: Players just playing.



GearzHeadz -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/13/2014 20:41:02)

That's what most players do, but when they lose again and again and again, then it gets old. Most of the common players who use the flavor of the week builds don't even like using it, it gets boring quickly. But they're tired of losing, so they do it anyways.



Altador987 -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/13/2014 20:49:18)

i agree with gear on this one it's why i didn't fully understand the whole "get rid of losses record" i mean if it brings more people then by all means but it's not gonna make me magically forget that i've lost a bunch of matches in a row



edwardvulture -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/13/2014 21:06:07)

That's why you have to shift your mindset from losing to playing and gaining credits and experience. If you don't want to lose, change builds, copy the flavor of the week build. But if you want to be original and not necessarily win a lot, then by all means you should not be penalized for it.



GearzHeadz -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/13/2014 21:14:49)

Not many players see it as a penalty the way you do. Its just a way to show the truth.



edwardvulture -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/13/2014 21:16:33)

The truth is ugly(for most people) the economy is driven by greed.... please... if I wanted truth then why would I play a computer game?



GearzHeadz -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/13/2014 21:20:37)

Maybe this isn't the game for you then?



edwardvulture -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/13/2014 21:28:45)

This game hasn't been the game for most people as of late as the numbers on the servers show. Except that their facebook page has a fairly impressive and growing amount. We have no idea how much of those people actually play. This game WAS the game for me. I barely play it anymore because of how I get penalized for being original. Used to be that the players with the most skill and creative builds was the one that win.



Pemberton -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/13/2014 21:47:15)

The game is a mess. Instead of just focusing on balance, the devs just keep on introducing new confusing changes that don't help at all.
Passive to active is a fail because instead of relying on passives, we just switched to rely on energy control skills...
The number system change is a fail too because you cant calculate damage anymore...
So you remove enhancement and just replace it with promo cores...
Ineffective Balance updates once every 3 months + unlimited class changing and build copying? Recipe for disaster.



Mother1 -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/13/2014 21:52:08)

@ edwardvulture

You forget one thing. Everytime you lose unless you get a disconnect you see the big "DEFEATED" screen so how in the world would removing losses make anyone feel like a winner when we have the big defeated screen reminding them they lost?



edwardvulture -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/13/2014 22:08:20)

^Change it to "The battle did not go your way"? I personally would not mind seeing the "DEFEATED" screen if I knew that I could get rid of it as soon as I press the Finish Battle Button.

EDIT: I completely derailed my own thread and did something that I said I wouldn't do on the first post. eh oh well....



Altador987 -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/14/2014 0:43:22)

so... lie... or rather pretend like the players are stupid and use a consolidation which still means they lost... like i said losing never mattered to me either way as long as the match was good but it just seems the idea is unnecessary



edwardvulture -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/14/2014 3:34:53)

You have to "think" you are winning something for just playing. That's what players want. Take for example Dragonfable, rarely do you lose to an enemy. I thought about Remorses's idea where winning only comes with losing. I think that's too extreme. I've read somewhere people used Leauge of Legends as an example as a game with balance. I would say Leauge is a LOT MORE skill based because your stats RESET every time you start a battle. That's one of the reasons why it is an e-sport while I feel ED should not be anywhere near as competitive.

I have to be honest, I do feel indignant when I lose to an infernal android build or a 0 support striking BH build. I feel like the better build-maker with more skills should win. Not the player who uses an overused build and gets lucky. That is one of the factors why the win/lose ratio is not a determinant of skill.



Mother1 -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/14/2014 3:56:46)

@ edwardvulture

and unlike those other AE games Epic duel is a PVP game! In other words there has to be winners and there has to be losers. It isn't a game where you fight NPC most of the time while doing PVP very little.

If players who are playing the game can't get that you can't always win then playing a game where you can't win every battle isn't the kind of game for them.



edwardvulture -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/14/2014 4:48:18)

Yes, the "DEFEATED" sign does reassure us that there are certainly winners and losers. But at its core, EpicDuel, like everything is a product. And for a product to succeed, consumers need to think that they are winners. If we were all pleased, then surely more of us would buy varium.



Drianx -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/14/2014 9:51:55)

Epicduel is not a competition-driven game, but a grinding game.

If it had been competitive, we would have had ladders, tournaments, and other competitions, to distinguish the best, most effective, best win ratio, most active, most creative players.

But most leaderboards are win counts only.

Or you might want to answer: who is the best player in Epicduel?
The one with most wins? The one with most fame? The one wth the most influence..? - but influence is so complicated and ambiguous that it hardly means anything for anyone. The one with the best win ratio..? - oh there's no leaderboard for this.
Hard to tell.
the only true goal of Epicduel is amassing wins. Do you want to keep doing it, and don't mind the losses? Then you will stay. But the long-term motivation is shallow.



Altador987 -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/14/2014 10:28:06)

...^ actually they should try doing that... competitions and ladders and the like it'd give them a real reason to balance every class so players could really test their metal against their opponent that's an awesome idea i bet a lot of people could come up with different builds (especially in 2v2) to overcome the opponent (assuming all the classes were balanced of course)



Xendran -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/14/2014 13:51:36)

quote:

Epicduel is not a competition-driven game, but a grinding game.


This is untrue. The grinding is driven only by one thing: The competition. When you have maxed gear and 10k wins, what is the point of taking that 10k to 100k?
Either for credits to compete in rarity, or house appearance, or player appearance, or to have more wins than others.

A grinding game would be any ARPG, like the current new big one that's out there (omitting name for safety).
You don't grind in that to get more wins or more rarity rating, or whatever, you grind because it takes an obscene amount of time to get gear with perfect mods, let alone to get gear with the highest tier of perfect mods. There's almost always room for improvement in your character.
And after you've completed your first one, there are so many more builds available within the 7 classes combined that it takes a good long while to run out of drastically different builds to make. And even then, you can add on the addition of hardcore mode which moves your character out of Hardcore/Nemesis league if you die, giving you more incentive to reroll and keep grinding.

There is always a new character, new builld, or new/better gear to be had, and THAT is what keeps you grinding. Epicduel is purely driven by competition, and i feel like i can say that safely after providing this example, as well as seeing this game progress over the course of the last 4 years (as well as the other game progressing over the course of the last 2 years).



edwardvulture -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/14/2014 16:46:16)

ED is a computer game, not an e-sport. Since most of AE caters to young players, competition shouldn't be so steep.
quote:

Epicduel is purely driven by competition

I'm pretty sure ED is driven by money from varium purchases from players that feel like this game is going in the right direction who are happy playing this game.



GearzHeadz -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/14/2014 17:27:09)

Or players that simply want an edge.



Mother1 -> RE: The Next OP Class:Why balance will never be perfected (1/14/2014 17:47:42)

@ gearzheadz

That is it in a nutshell. It was why everyone used to by varium in the past and in older phases. Or simply to escape becoming a punching bag which is still how it is now, since they are making certain cores varium exclusive for a whole year so while it is a temporary edge it is still just that.



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