RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (Full Version)

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Dual Thrusters -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/19/2014 13:37:24)

So Hybrid Armor would basically make you invincible for 4 turns?




GearzHeadz -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/19/2014 13:39:11)

Pretty much all of these armors would.




santonik -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/19/2014 18:53:36)

This will now go off topic side.

--- Smoke Screen '(really good skill in isolation)
--- Mark of Blood (really good skill in isolation)
--- Reflex Boost (really good skill in isolation)
--- Energy Shield (really good skill in isolation)

Did not they do boyntyhunter (really hard) tank.
(four skills combinatio)
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Techmage

---Technician (really good skill in isolation)
---Battery (really good skill in isolation)
---Assimilation (really good skill in isolation)
---Defence matrix (really good skill in isolation)

Did not they do techmage (really hard) tank.
(four skills combinatio)
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on Topic
quote:


Plasma Armor
Increase Resistance for 4 turns. This skill is unaffected by stat changes.
A percentage of direct damage taken is reflected as EP damage.
Level 1: 30% Resistance | 15% of Damage
Level 2: 39% Resistance | 17% of Damage
Level 3: 48% Resistance | 19% of Damage
Level 4: 56% Resistance | 21% of Damage
Level 5: 64% Resistance | 23% of Damage
Level 6: 72% Resistance | 25% of Damage
Level 7: 79% Resistance | 27% of Damage
Level 8: 86% Resistance | 29% of Damage
Level 9: 93% Resistance | 31% of Damage
Level 10: 100% Resistance | 33% of Damage



It'd reflect on all the work. figuring out now. if the hunter has a big cyber protection. 400 and it will get 100% of your resistance. (400 +400 = 800) That most of the world to stop the attack at any time. principle, the opponent will always be a minimum of damage.
30 ~ 50 damage (the most common damage to a minimum)

reflect those of 30 ~ 50x0.15 = 4.5 ~ 7.5 (small benefit me)
4 (rounds) x4.5 = 7.5 ~ 18 ~ 30 (this is calculated skill 10lvl)
This is a fictional character from the tank.




Now let's imagine the same offensive build vs second offensive build.

both will do damage to 500 per turn (fictional)

cyber hunter to use first Plasma armor.

or cyber hunter defense is a 250 (both def and res)
Plasma armor added. 6lvl ¨ + 62% + 25% resistance reflect)

250 + (250x0.62% = 155) = 405 armor

500damage - 405armor = 95 damage

95damage x 25% (reflect damage) = 23.75 damage

23.75 damage x 4 (rounds) = 94 damage (this is not biggest damage buff)

As you might imagine the same Tacticalmercenary. The only difference is the only mineral and plasma armor.

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quote:

Hybrid Armor
Increases Defense & Resistance for 4 turns. This skill is unaffected by stat changes.
Incoming damage grants the opponent less rage;
30% of Cost must be repaid on dealing direct* damage
50% of Energy Spent during Hybrid Armor is returned on effect end


Level 1: 22% Defense, Resist | 15% Less Rage
Level 2: 28% Defense, Resist | 17% Less Rage
Level 3: 34% Defense, Resist | 19% Less Rage
Level 4: 40% Defense, Resist | 21% Less Rage
Level 5: 46% Defense, Resist | 23% Less Rage
Level 6: 52% Defense, Resist | 25% Less Rage
Level 7: 58% Defense, Resist | 27% Less Rage
Level 8: 64% Defense, Resist | 29% Less Rage
Level 9: 70% Defense, Resist | 31% Less Rage
Level 10: 76% Defense, Resist | 33% Less Rage

Hybrid armor specialty reduces the opponent's rage can also be good. after all, to be mercenary tank if it uses hybridarmor. (ie effective) So, in any case, the opponent will get a lot of rage. Reminder to all this is the only defense skill which is a mercenary.

This paper hybridarmor can stop someone's hard assailant. but here too their own weaknesses mercenary now. (energy control, poison, Malf, smoke, etc.)




Xendran -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/19/2014 20:53:35)

quote:

Pretty much all of these armors would.


Invincibility is not the same as tankiness. There are very clear ways around both mineral and plasma armor. Hybrid armor makes you very very tanky, but definitely not invincible with mercs limited energy pool and the need to pay energy to be offensive during it. It's meant to temporarily stall the battle.




DarkDevil -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/20/2014 1:00:41)

the only downside of tankiness is more rage , taking it away will only OP merc.

as i have stated before this buff is unnecessary as it could either cause an unwanted nerf for balance or the skill going OP , both ways are not wanted




Xendran -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/20/2014 1:49:59)

I gave plenty of reasons as to why these will not overpowere these calsses, but simply bring them up to a level similar to tech mage. You have provided no logical reasoning as to why this would make the classes overpowered, unless you consider being able to compete with tech mage overpowered (which it isn't, because every class would be on a similar power level).





Mother1 -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/20/2014 2:05:04)

@ xendran

While it may not overpower the classes they could overpower focus 5 infernal android builds since those who use this bot need to stall the match to power up the bot, and with these improvements to the armor buffs it would do just that.

That is another worry about this improvement to the armors. If players aren't using the strength builds they are using focus 5 builds with the robot. 400-600 Damage from the one shot deal with rage is kind of hard to recover from in most cases even with high resistance and shields.




Xendran -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/20/2014 2:24:13)

Infernal android is a fair point, but perhaps that brings the bot into question rather than these skills, when it becomes the single outlier of overpoweredness while every other build becomes much more balanced out.




DarkDevil -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/20/2014 4:15:50)

i didn't mean the class as merc but as defensive class.
i am talking about the skill as a skill , and OPing the skill isn't a key to balance.

what if i don't want to use the skill.
you would classify a class as balanced by one skill being OPed ?




Xendran -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/20/2014 5:14:07)

This is not overpowering the skill, it's bringing them up to par with other skills and synergies of cominant classes. Currently they're underpowered. I see people using almost every skill except these ones, so buffing them moderately is not making them "OP".
There is also not a problem with a skill being used as a backbone for certain build types.




DarkDevil -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/20/2014 5:40:55)

as i have mentioned before , both mineral and plasma can't be countered and the only way is to use the other route.
and hybrid armor is only dealt with using penetration skills like malf and poison and smoke and cheapshot and fire scythe.
otherwise you just deal 3-10 damage at most.

so they don't need an extra buff , orelse it will come on cost of effect reducing it to 3 turns.

comparing the energy costs is useless as the skill last for 4 turns , and this extra turn can cost 50+ energy because you won't have to renew it sooner.

i am not against the idea as it is good , i am just showing what are the side effects of the buff.




Xendran -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/20/2014 5:44:35)

quote:

as i have mentioned before , both mineral and plasma can't be countered and the only way is to use the other route.


Not only is that a counter, but you act as if you HAVE to attack EVERY turn and that it's somehow evil to use a buff on yourself without first having a debuff. Also, poison and def/res ignore.

quote:

and hybrid armor is only dealt with using penetration skills like malf and poison and smoke and cheapshot and fire scythe.otherwise you just deal 3-10 damage at most.


That's the point. It's a staller. You're just saying things but not showing how it is a problem

quote:


so they don't need an extra buff , orelse it will come on cost of effect reducing it to 3 turns.

comparing the energy costs is useless as the skill last for 4 turns , and this extra turn can cost 50+ energy because you won't have to renew it sooner.

i am not against the idea as it is good , i am just showing what are the side effects of the buff.


You still havent given any logical or valid reasonas to WHY they don't need an extra buff, especially when some of the things you've been saying are not true and these skills are horrendously underused.
I've given many well thought out reasons as to how these skills help fill in the holes that these classes are missing, and you're putting almost no effort into giving me a full explanation of your side of thinking.




Altador987 -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/20/2014 11:25:26)

i understand that the shields are meant to make up for class synergies however i just feel the synergies themselves should be fixed across the board and could only see this as a temporary fix for an immediate balance update so the devs could then work on actually fixing synergies




Xendran -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/20/2014 15:17:15)

You don't seem to understand that this IS a synergy. You don't buff every other skill in exchange for one being terrible, because that makes thet terrible skill even worse.




Altador987 -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/20/2014 15:37:13)

lol i understand it quite well it's not hard to follow however will said synergy be necessary if all other synergies and skills are fixed, not to mention you stated that the skills were sucky and i'm curious as to why you believe so, other than the ep cost i really don't see what's so suckish about the skills




Xendran -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/20/2014 17:49:08)

It's very ineffective to use these skills most of the time currently, and if these classes are given stronger synergies with other skills, the incentive to use these skills would be even lower.




RageSoul -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/20/2014 18:08:14)

Supported . This is pretty balance because the reflect damage part is countered by the high defense bonus . Even if it does look high , this one gives more synergy .




lionblades -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/21/2014 17:05:06)

I support since these shields need a buff because of the costly energy




GearzHeadz -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/21/2014 17:44:31)

Or y'know... A reduced cost would be fine.




Xendran -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/21/2014 20:18:44)

Why, when the problem is the effectiveness not the energy cost, would we take the easy way out? People seem to be so against changes to this game that add new layers of strategy...
It's like they just want the old 2 turn Maul Zerker playstyle back...




GearzHeadz -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/21/2014 20:55:29)

Because this game is so messed up as it is why implement new and confusing things when the current isn't even settled yet? It isn't the effectiveness that is the issue, if used for defense, then it works fine. Just like its suppose to be. Its just a bit pricey.




suboto -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/21/2014 23:10:52)

id perfer the cost for mineral/plasm armor to go down slightly by 5 of its orginial cost each lvl higher example:
originally it would cost 20 energy after lvl1 and so on
=180 at max current system
new energy cost =135 energy at max


Reason why i use it at its most minimum amount to counter smoke is due to energy cost
I was useing lvl7 but the cost was to much so i reduced it to lvl6 lowest i could go to use it as a counter.


Unrelated: blood shield res system should get a slim buff




Ranloth -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/22/2014 2:53:00)

quote:

Unrelated: blood shield res system should get a slim buff

It may actually be bugged right now (waiting for confirmation), which means on Friday, it will be a bit stronger than it is now.




Matt 1000 -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/28/2014 5:45:13)

This is a great idea i fully support it hybrid armours are not meant to be just plain shields giving them a secondary purpose makes them worthwhile to use instead of just a costly sheild.




dfo99 -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/28/2014 5:52:56)

not suported. the 15% of mana back of reflex boost was removed not is fair set in others shields




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