RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (Full Version)

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Xendran -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/28/2014 6:20:53)

The 15% mana back on reflex was removed because its counter part was technician which had no such benefit. This is a buff to every single ARMOR (not shield, ARMOR), and isn't a mana return it's mana damage.
Your argument makes literally zero logical sense.



dfo99 -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/28/2014 7:19:08)

We want each skill to have one clear primary goal - rabblefroth http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21510050

this was the reason for the 15% manaback of reflex boost be removed. doesnot matter if you will drain or gain mana or is armor or shield, this effects is the same of 15% of reflex boost and not is suported



Xendran -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/28/2014 7:23:58)

I wasn't aware that people are incapable of changing their minds and that you are the official voice of the developers.
This is in the balance section, not the "Everything suggested here must have only one part" section.

Also, what about maul? It has both def ignore and stun, two different functions.
Frenzy has damage, AND lifesteal AND def ignore, three functions, one of which was added in the last patch.
Blood commander has strength boost and lifesteal, two functions, one of which was buffed recently.
Bunker buster has defence ignore, crit chance and damage
Cheap shot has defence ignore, crit chance and damge
Stuns kills have damage and stun



Ranloth -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/28/2014 7:24:45)

Except... Xendran is right. The effect was not necessary due to Technician, and it got +2 Dex boost to compensate for the loss of it. Furthermore, the EP return was kinda useless if you take into account blockable attacks; Dex increases block chance, and EP return needed damage dealt. Not mentioning higher defenses = lesser EP return, so yeah, it was somewhat useless and contradictory.

That doesn't mean skills cannot have secondary, or even tertiary effects. The primary goal of Reflex, is to give +Dex to the player. For Blood Commander, it's to increase your damage output and give HP back, at cost of lesser +Str bonus (compare BC to FC), but HP return depends on the Str boost and your damage (which Str increases). Likewise with Bunker and Plasma Cannon - these have whooping three effects; damage, defense ignore and critical chance - at what cost? Lesser damage than pure damaging skills, to compensate for it.

Next time, do check what primary goal is and how these effects work(ed).



dfo99 -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/28/2014 7:41:09)

yes, i know that this facts is contradictory, but armor and shields is very similiar and stun, ignore dmg and lifesteal work like a bonus in atack. armor and shields is usually used to counter smoke and malf, with this effects the people can use to get the secondary effect (this all is supposition). anyway will make the merc, tlm and ch OP



Xendran -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/28/2014 7:46:41)

I gave tons of reasons as to why it will balance them and not make them OP, you have given none other than "just because".
Sounds to me like you're a tech mage or bounty hunter afraid of having some competition.



Ranloth -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/28/2014 7:48:54)

How will it make Mercs/TLMs/CHs overpowered? You don't actually state a reason. Furthermore, Shields and Armors work differently - one requires high Dex/Tech to be effective, and other is effective with low Support and around Lvl 3-5 at most. Armors last a turn longer, but at cost of being less effective + having different mechanism behind it.



dfo99 -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/28/2014 7:54:35)

i am blood mage permanently (lv 40 with 70% 1v1 win rate non varium)

i read only you first post.



Xendran -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/28/2014 7:57:42)

If you have only read the first post, how can you accurately respond to a thread's worth of posts and explanations?



dfo99 -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/28/2014 8:02:06)

trans

shields requires usually 45 of suport for be useful in lv 3-5 and armors in same lvs requires only a moderatly def/res, also armor not is affected my azreal bot and bazzoka



dfo99 -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/28/2014 8:04:49)

xedran

i only post my opnion about you main post, now only answer you counter posts



Ranloth -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/28/2014 8:08:03)

Using one core as an excuse to leave something imbalanced is wrong. Shall we buff all HP-restoring skills, because Hatchling Rush is too strong? I can use one core as an excuse to do so, right?

Oh, mind you, my L31 TLM has 72 Dex, Lvl 4 Mineral Armor, and I get +160 Defense. My Lvl 37 BM has 45 Support, Lvl 3 Energy Shield and gets +212 Resistance. Difference in cost is +20 EP more for Mineral Armor. Roughly, the defense gain is equal but at cost of +27 more stats being put in Dex.

Moderate is around Focus 5 requirement. High Dex/Tech is 80+, and abuse will be above 100-110+ (in my opinion). That's not moderate Tech/Dex which I've got, for a L31 TLM. I have less stats overall, mind you, compared to L36 or L40 player.



Xendran -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/28/2014 8:16:01)

I did nerf hybrid down a bit, 76% was too high, i've put it to the current 60% and slightly changed the progression. Check out the thread Mercenary 2.0 for a full class rebalance including changes that make swords usable.



dfo99 -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/28/2014 8:29:53)

trans

suport requeriment is very worse than dex, tech and str requeriment and you can reach a bigger effect if invest all equiped armor points in defense, not forgot of the 4 turns duration

i not use a core for buff or nerf nothing, i say for expose a advantage of armors against shields



Xendran -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/28/2014 8:35:25)

You still haven't explained how they would overpower the classes. You have described things that make the skill powerful, but not provided any reasoning as to why you believe they are TOO powerful.



Ranloth -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/28/2014 8:47:50)

No one is telling you to max out the skill... My Lvl 4 Mineral Armor (and Plasma, on my CH) has 25 Dex/Tech requirement. Surely that ain't a lot, no? Or say Lvl 6 for more defense - 31 Dex/Tech isn't going to be difficult at Lvl 30+, same applies for Support.

quote:

also armor not is affected my azreal bot and bazzoka

quote:

i not use a core for buff or nerf nothing

That's two contradicting statements. First you use Azrael's Torment as an excuse, and now you say that you're not.

Also, what Xendran has said. Suggest something to make it weaker, and not overpowered - since you're claiming it's overpowered, without stating what is actually overpowered and why. Constructive feedback.



dfo99 -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/28/2014 8:54:43)

xendran

the hybrid armor not have how atack the other defense/resistence type, if you can't use heals skills or cores probably will hit 30 or other minimal dmg and the rage drainer will broken the concept of rage, that was created to counter tank builds, the 30% and 50% effects will make the shields too weak compared to this, you suggest about this is absurd.

the plasma and mineral also not have a counter to this if the oponent not have a correct build. the damage reflected will make the heals and mana drainers skills be more needed



dfo99 -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/28/2014 9:04:35)

trans

i write wrong this

also armor not is affected my azreal bot and bazzoka
also armor not is affected by* azreal bot and bazzoka


i not use a core for buff or nerf nothing
i not say that* core for buff or nerf nothing



Xendran -> RE: Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Buffs (1/28/2014 9:18:00)

First of all, i will not repeat the counters for these skills that i have listed in this thread already. It's your responsibility to read the entire thread before saying things that have already been addressed.
Secondly...

quote:


the 30% and 50% effects will make the shields too weak compared to this, you suggest about this is absurd.


The 30% effect is a GIANT disadvantage to the person using hybrid. You probably think that the attacker has to pay energy against the merc. That's wrong. The mercenary with hybrid armor active must repay nearly a third of the cost every time they want to use attacks during the effect.
Not only that, but if you use it to buff up your partner, their attacking ability during it now relies on YOUR energy. Sure, it makes you unbelievably hard to deal damage to, but it also severely limits your own damage output.

Actually, i forgot about that effect and for this reason i'm rebuffing hybrid back up to 76%.



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