Balance changes (Full Version)

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Deathknightmare -> Balance changes (1/18/2014 2:22:06)

This is not meant to criticize or flame anyone. I just want to talk about the changes to tech mages. I have been playing this game for awhile now when you see a balance update that is too harsh. A lot of people leave the class and go on to the next one. We are not seeing this with this update. Tech mages seem to be just as powerful as before the update and my class bounty hunter has gotten weaker with the major nerf to smoke and static grenade. Unfortunately, if you want people to change classes then you have to have a major buff to one of the weaker classes. Are bounty hunters weaker or am I just biased because I'm a bounty hunter and are tech mages just as powerful as before the update?



Mother1 -> RE: Balance changes (1/18/2014 2:55:46)

As a Tech mage myself even though my class got 3 nerfs I barely felt any of them to be honest.

But then again my build doesn't overly rely on Assimilation or Battery back up, and Plasma bolt I don't use. But still it felt like a love tap at best to me.

As for Bounty hunter The class actually got 2 buffs and one nerf since venom strike was buffed along with the amount of energy you get back from Static grenade.



Xendran -> RE: Balance changes (1/18/2014 3:01:13)

Tech mage nerf did literally nothing. It's all the other buffs to other classes that are noticeable.



DarkDevil -> RE: Balance changes (1/18/2014 3:02:12)

wow , now venom grenade is a no requirement venom strike.

anyway looking to all the changes , i guess i got back to what i said before.

balance is done randomly under no basics.



Mother1 -> RE: Balance changes (1/18/2014 3:57:01)

@ Darkdevil

Assimilation an Battery backup were suggested nerfs by the forums from people who wanted TM to get a nerf.

Also a lot of the skills that got buffed were skills that people said needed some buffs for a while such as field commander, blood shield, and fireball.



DarkDevil -> RE: Balance changes (1/18/2014 4:26:40)

not like 10-20 difference at max made a difference , it didn't change anything about balance that its bad.



Ranloth -> RE: Balance changes (1/18/2014 5:37:38)

BHs and TLMs have different skilltrees - only because one has a requirement, doesn't mean the other needs it as well; other skills may compensate for it instead; different skills with requirements.

TMs didn't need a major nerf either. It was minor at best, and in three areas which proved to be troublesome. It's small, yes, but it does add up as the battle drags on.



Deathknightmare -> RE: Balance changes (1/18/2014 5:59:15)

I think TMs needed a nerf. Plasma bolt is rarely used now so it shouldn't have been nerfed. The TM builds that you see are: strength, overload and the focus builds. No one uses plasma bolt anymore. I think if you look at the leader boards, it will tell you all you need to know about the state of the game. I think once you see some changes in the classes on the LB then I think there will be balance or at least some different classes having success in this game. There are a lot of smart people that play this game and it says something that no one has created a build that can consistently defeat a tech mage. I was a tech mage for a week and I couldn't find anyone that could defeat me consistently unless it was another tech mage. I just heal looped till I won.



Remorse -> RE: Balance changes (1/18/2014 6:54:58)

^agreed,
Personally I feel that they should leave all tech mages spells alone.

Thier spells only become strong because of their energy skills.
What I mean is why nerf a caster build when the reason it is strong is because they have far too much energy control.
That alone is what needs nerfing.

And by nerfimg they should be giving them a cost to stop them being looped without a downside.



Hellion Storm -> RE: Balance changes (1/18/2014 8:16:44)

I give it 3 days max till the sheep go to cher and ruin the str build



kosmo -> RE: Balance changes (1/18/2014 9:33:57)

i cant see how someone thinks tm got a nerf, 2ep less on the drain of assimilation and 2 ep less on battery backup is just a joke.

dethknightmare@
i agree whit you on the balance still being a crap, but if im allowed i wonted to suggest some ways to kill tm whit merc and bh.

bh: try to smoke on 1st turn and static granade on 2nd, it looks like a waste but its a sucesfull strategy

merc: heal as soon as possible, than just improove ur strenght and use intimidate +heatcling rush.

in my opinion the most important thing to defeat tm is to have the usefull skills at the lower lvl possible, for example my heal smoke or intimidate are alwaise on lvl 1 no matter what.
aswell piston punch is a must, and it can save ur life in so many situations.



Drianx -> RE: Balance changes (1/18/2014 9:51:57)

As long as Battery Backup and Assimilation are not further adjusted, mages will profit from the awesome synergy of tanking + defense-improved spells, or from heal looping.

Battery Backup should actually work as Reroute was working - regain energy as the mage takes damage - but for only 3 turns, just like Mark of Blood works (like a limited Bloodlust).

This is how the old beta heallooper should have been nerfed as well - by limiting the energy regain - instead of introducing that stupid Agility and affecting all classes by increasing Field Medic cooldown.



kosmo -> RE: Balance changes (1/18/2014 10:18:16)

i dont think battery should get a nerf, since tlm shouldnt get affected from this, being the underdog class.

i would just go for a valid nerf to asimilation on 1st and then revisit the INAVIABLE and underpowered classes, like tlm and bm.



Altador987 -> RE: Balance changes (1/18/2014 11:13:47)

it would seem bounties are weaker i'm not sure why they nerfed sg more as it barely regained anything now it barely steals anything either, it seems bh will take the same course cy hunter did when it came out...sigh



Ranloth -> RE: Balance changes (1/18/2014 11:45:27)

Actually, even though the drain go nerfed by -30 EP, the return was buffed by 5%. In fact, it returns MORE Energy; I had 320 EP drain before, now it's 290 EP.
320 * 0.3 = 96 EP returned
290 * 0.35 = 101.5 EP returned

The aim of the nerf was to reduce the drain, but not the return - as the result, the drain is weaker whilst the return has had a minimal buff.



Altador987 -> RE: Balance changes (1/18/2014 15:33:47)

that's nice and all but there's still very little i could do in a match with that and there's definitely nothing variety wise that i could have fun with



Xendran -> RE: Balance changes (1/18/2014 19:59:24)

quote:

Battery Backup should actually work as Reroute was working - regain energy as the mage takes damage - but for only 3 turns, just like Mark of Blood works (like a limited Bloodlust).


Not going to lie, this would flat out nerf the skill into the ground. Normally i'm against the "Buff all the others" idea, but in this case it actually should be done. TM vs TM battles are interesting, most other classes are not.

This thread is still something i consider to be a very viable option of buffing up most of the other classes, with fairly detailed explanations as to how it would affect the balance of the game.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Balance changes (1/18/2014 22:42:36)

Wouldn't really nerf it. That's like saying the applied MoB is a super nerf. Players can throw up shields to easily counter MoB health gain, but it doesn't happen so much. And even if they did make it like the old reroute, they could make it last a 4 or five turns. And if players didn't want to attack them, they would just have time to tank and heal or attack.



Xendran -> RE: Balance changes (1/18/2014 22:49:02)

Mark of Blood deals damage upon usage, is controlled by the caster, and does not require the sacrifice of another resource to be activated.
They are just as incomparable as Reroute vs Bloodlust



GearzHeadz -> RE: Balance changes (1/18/2014 23:55:16)

Those were pretty comparable actually. And mark of blood does require another resource to be activated, energy. And like I said, it's only somewhat controlled by the caster. Now that it can target, if the target has high defenses, adds defenses, or weakens your damage, then it makes the effect weaker.



Mother1 -> RE: Balance changes (1/19/2014 0:05:21)

@ gearzheadz

But at the same time, if Battery tookithe old reroute effect, it would be a really hard nerf. For one unlike before if it lasts only 3 turns, the caster is at the mercy of said player if they want any energy back. Second the opponent could choose not to attack you at any time which would result in you not getting any energy back in other words use this against you where unlike with the normal reroute the effect was always active.

With Mark of blood there is no such problem because even with a lesser effect, said player will always get health back as long as they attack the target within the duration of the attack. They aren't at the mercy of their opponents to get anything back. Plus Health as we always known is greater than energy. Especially if you have a ton of energy but can't use it for anything.



FrostWolv -> RE: Balance changes (1/19/2014 0:42:49)

Two of the balance changes were not ok :


TLM poison buff :-

quote:

Isnt it same like Venom strike .... both deals 130 poison .... both have 2 turn cooldown ...... both costs 280 energy ..... both deals 85% damage ..... but Toxic Grenade has no stats requirement and needs no primary ?



TM slight nerf:-

I would say make battery backup as it was again to 350 .... and make some reasonable nerf to assimilation

either remove drain or gain ......

It is the best energy control skill in Epic Duel as it can drain energy, gain energy, deal damage 85%, can crit, has rage gain, energy drain in unblockable, can be used in rage, improves with strength and can be spammed over again for its 3 turn cool down....................This skill is really too much for a class which already has another energy gaining skill ---> Battery Backup.



kittycat -> RE: Balance changes (1/19/2014 3:02:46)

The Plasma bolt nerf was necessary but to be honest, that nerf actually prompted the use of overload because now plasma bolt and overload are at the similar damage level. Thus, players have to select between the direct or indirect effect of restoring or increasing damage. Overload's compensation for the indirect effect is stun.

I believe that Battery backup shouldn't grant such a high amount of energy return at once. Halving the amount and doubling the frequency would make energy control easier for the opponents, and reduce the advantage of lacking an intermediary energy drainer in a 2v2.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Balance changes (1/19/2014 7:56:06)

@Mother1
What if for a reroute like effect that is applied? You strike a target, applying this effect to them, and every target they strike gets a % of energy relative to the damage from the hit. It could last more then 4 turns.



Xendran -> RE: Balance changes (1/19/2014 9:15:53)

We need less clones of skills, not more. Other classes need synergies as strong as tech mage, otherwise every battle will be as boring as battles that have no TMs or BHs in them. Battles without at least one of these two classes are excruciatingly boring most of the time, and have nothing interesting about them.



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