assimilation (Full Version)

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ambien -> assimilation (2/5/2014 12:09:23)

tms assimilation what would happen if assimilation when used just drain manna and no phy damg was dealt out. would the tm be as strong as they are now.

assimilation as it stands now deals manna drain and phy damg. maybe just having the skill just drain manna could this ( = ) out the class.

what are your thoughts as players think about assimilation just doing manna drain damg.

always the syfy



Mother1 -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 12:17:15)

Actually doing that would underpower the skill.

Even though it scales with strength, it is the weakest of the one shot energy drainers. (Not including energy parasite since this drains over the course of 3 turns.

When this skill was originally made it was given Damage and rage gain to compensate for the fact that it was the weakest.



Trollok!!! -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 12:26:18)

If this was done, you'd have to buff up something else or the skill would once again be the weakest draining skill.

And I'm pretty sure this should go into the Balance Forums.



ambien -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 12:34:46)

well mother l do not agree with that statement you said. ( assimilation )when this skill is used. the skill has and can to 320 drain of manna and up tp 250 pts of phy damg with 1 attack. now looking at static smash as you can see their is no phy damg right. look at the chs static charge when used, yes some damg is given out but not that much and some manna is given back to caster. remb when static charge first came out to the ch, it was oped and something had to be done with the skill. they nerft the skill real bad and the chs has emp skill that steals manna deals no( damg.) as phy. so the static charge has lost the effect it was design for because it is no where next what assimilation can do.

but as far as assimilation their is no skill that deals that much damg phy and manna stealing damg for a 1 time attack in the game. beside most of the tms now are hack slash fighters like the battle mages of the past, and they use assimilation that way.

always the syfy



Ranloth -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 12:42:03)

Assimilation's aim was and is to drain and return Energy. It was designed this way, and it's retained the concept for quite a while now - even with Reroute around at the time, but weaker Assimilation.

85% damage isn't that much. Strength abusers will still deal less damage than they initially would, and for Casters, it's still 30 damage. It's already been nerfed plenty of times.

Even though you don't agree with Mother1's statement, she's stating facts... Even with high Strength, Assimilation falls short of skills such as Static Grenade at lower Support (comparing unblockable skills). If we add blockable ones, it's still pretty weak compared to Static Smash (better return, by far) and Atom Smasher (around similar drain at much lower level), and MUCH weaker than EMP with Tech being as high as TM's Strength.

Also, you're wrong. Static Charge was NOT nerfed because it was overpowered, but because Plasma Armor was added - in place of Technician - and this has overpowered their skilltree; tank defenses and VERY powerful Energy return, which was NOT powerful without the passive Armor. The combo has overpowered the skill greatly. This is a fact, not an opinion of mine.



ConQrR -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 12:51:02)

My idea about assimilation, energy return should be removed not the dmg.

Because no other class (other than tech mage) with an energy restore skill and energy steal&gain skill at same time.

Merc - only static smash (stealing and gaining)
ch - static charge (gainig) - emp ( only stealing)
tlm - battery back-up (gaining) - atom smash ( only stealing)
bh - static granade (stealing and gaining)
bm - energy prasite (staling and gaining)




ambien -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 12:52:29)

does static smash give phy damg no it does not. and static charge does give out damg and steal manna it cannot compare in the damg and manna drain that assimilation does deal out.
why then have 1 skill that deals out 2 types of damg that overpowers other skills that do the same thing or they are to ( then static charge should and be able to do as assimilation can do in pts in stealing and phy damg same amount for same cost ) same pts for drain and same damg pts.

if both were designed to do the same thing with same % chance it is not happening.



Ranloth -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 13:09:06)

Static Charge is unblockable and deals guaranteed damage, 100% at that. Assimilation does not. You're forgetting it's unlocked earlier on, but that's not as relevant.

You've also missed out the aim of Assimilation. Make fair comparisons before you bother with them at all - because you compare Energy return+drain skills to ones that do only one of them. SC is weaker in terms of return, although can be powerful on glass cannons, and deals unblockable damage. In terms of drain from EMP, it's far more superior than Assimilation's.

No, they weren't designed to be the same. Arguing facts with opinions doesn't work.

@ConQrR
Weren't players actually getting mad over the drain, not return? It was already nerfed to 50%, and players still find an issue with the drain - not return. Not mentioning reducing the base amounts around a handful of times.



Mother1 -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 13:17:32)

@ trans

people also don't like the return part due to it making TM having 2 ways to get back energy. This also makes it easy for heal looping TM's to do so since if their battery backup is countered with a draining skill the mage can steal energy once again with Assimilation and still pull off the heal looping.



ambien -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 13:20:26)

emps does not deal out phy damg . just have assimilation deal manna drain damg and do not give it phy damg. or give static smash phy , emp phy damg , or atom smash phy damg or even static grenade phy damg to like assimilation has. all l am saying give the manna draining skillz phy damg like assimilation or just give just manna stealing only.



Ranloth -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 13:25:42)

Well, don't compare Assimilation to Static Charge then, ambien. One drains and returns + deals damage, other returns + deals damage. Just like Static Grenade - drains and returns, but no damage. Flawed comparisons call for flawed examples. If you wanna compare Assimilation to Static Charge, keep it far and look at every aspect of both skills, not just focus on two.

And no, Assimilation is MEANT to steal Energy and return you some of it. It was designed that way at first and they want to retain that theme. There's a fine line between asking for a nerf, and overshotting a nerf. We could go for Assimilation not dealing any damage, but that'd only really affect Strength TMs, since Casters would only lose 30 damage (and rage related bonuses).



ConQrR -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 13:27:02)

@trans

What people got mad about or its already nerfed to %50 does not change the fact. Tech mage only class has 2 way of gaining energy.



ambien -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 13:32:19)

l am fine with assimilation dealing engy damg they get back l have np with that, in fact i wish it was higher. the problem l have is the phy damg it deals out with the engy draining. it should only be able to take engy not deal out phy damg



Ranloth -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 13:35:11)

quote:

We could go for Assimilation not dealing any damage, but that'd only really affect Strength TMs, since Casters would only lose 30 damage (and rage related bonuses).

I said that few minutes ago, which is exactly the same as your last sentence in the above post.

Now, which builds are causing issues with Assimilation - Casters or Strength abusers? It'd affect Str builds greatly, but Casters not so much. But then again, players are finding drain/return/both an issue, so who is right and what should be done? Some want the return removed, some want damage removed, and some want all-round nerf to base values.

And, looking at the post below, it may not even be an issue with Assimilation. Who is right? What solution would be good for everyone? Easier said than done.



Trollok!!! -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 13:36:06)

I have never heard anyone else ever complain about Assimilation's puny 85% damage dealing. If you want an actual fix, then the return amount should be altered. But honestly, I'd say Assimilation is fine and the real problem is Battery Backup's ability to generate immense amount of Energy from NOTHING. At least with the old Reroute, it was based on your health.



Mother1 -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 13:38:47)

@ Ambien

It made this way because when it came out it was the weakest drainer/gainer out of all of them. Assimilation was completely outclassed by both atom smasher and EMP. at the time, and as a drainer it was harder to due to it not scaling and the damage being fixed.

This was why they added the damage and rage gain to it. to compensate for it being such a weak energy drainer in comparison to the others.

Also even now with the scaling added, in still falls short to all the others in terms of drains and gains with energy parasite being the exception.

Plus while we are at it Energy parasite also deals damage and drains energy should this move be made to only drain energy without damage as well since it is following that principal as well?

@ trollok

Even when reroute was here I remember people still complaining about TM having two ways to gain energy, and I even remember certain players saying the move needed to be like EMP or atom smasher meaning it only drains energy without the energy gain.



ambien -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 13:43:34)

at one time before you played trans players had what they called battle mages and guess what assimitation was not even in the game and battle mages rocked ed. ask any of the old time players. remb their was no assimitation and all the mages had was reroute and you had to know how to play a build with that skill and yes back then they had booster to help you out.

and they had strong stunn builds back then that make these stunn build well look very sad. when assimilation 1st was in the game guess what hardly no 1 used it. and if they did the most skill pts put into the skill was 3 . l know ed has changed alot since then, but assimilation has to be looked at again as a manna source or a phy prime weapon attack for straight damg not both engy and phy damg.





Noobatron x3000 -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 13:49:12)

I cant wait for assimilate to get removed/nerfed to the point its unusable that way mages have no energy control what soever

so a ch can emp u the minute you use battery backup and then use static charge and theres nothing you can do about it

a bh can use static grenade the minute you use backup get mana back as well as take the mana you gained

a merc static smash
a tlm emp then battery
bm is the only class that wouldn't really gain much

I wonder why so many people want to completely obliterate tm hm?



Ranloth -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 13:49:57)

Mind you, I was a TM until November of 2012, merely 2'ish months before Omega's release. I remember the old Assimilation and I've used it too, even though it was pathetically weak.

But what does the past, pre-Assimilation, have to do with balancing the actual skill? And why can't it drain+return AND deal damage? Energy Parasite does it, although Parasite has much bigger penalty. It was brought down to 85% damage so it won't deal too much damage, and it is noticable on Strength builds.

quote:

I cant wait for assimilate to get removed/nerfed to the point its unusable that way mages have no energy control what soever

This is exactly the reason why players aren't always right. Some players tend to suggest outrageous nerfs, to the point some skills/cores would be unusable - which is completely the opposite of what balance means. TMs were always powerful at Energy control, so ideally, only damage from Assimilation could get removed. Strength builds would take a hit, because it's lost damage. Casters, not so much but hey! Drain and return are fine, especially after nerfs sometime ago - MUCH better than the initial version after the buff was given to it.



toopygoo -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 13:50:15)

i honestly, as a merc, cyber and BH at levels 30+ have no complaints about assim... its slow, deals minimal damage, and hardly puts pressure on you. however i would change its improvement from strength to support, just so pure strength builds dont have that advantage.

but i am not in favour of drastic change about this skill ATM



Mother1 -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 13:57:26)

@ Noobatron

The answer is simple because TM is currently the current flavor that is being abused. If you hadn't noticed whenever this happens people want said class nerfed into the ground so they can beat them without problem. It has always been like this with many players so I am not in the least surprised that you and some others want TM nerfed hard now due to this.



ambien -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 13:58:03)

l never said take away assimitation skill some 1 else said that l said either make assimilation a straight engy drain skill with NO phy damg at all or make it a phy damg skill only.
l would like to see assimilation even drain more engy but just drop the phy damg that goes along with the attack



Noobatron x3000 -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 14:00:47)

my post was largely sarcastic I don't think the nerf is a good idea.



Mother1 -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 14:01:25)

@ Ambien

in other words take away what is unique about the skill and turn it into another form of static grenade or Static smash? (since damage and rage gain are the only things that keeps Assimilation from becoming the same as these two moves.



ambien -> RE: assimilation (2/5/2014 14:07:03)

why not do u see the players that play these classes asking for phy damg with their skill like static genade or static smash, or atom smasher l do not see them asking for phy damg with a engy draining skill. assimilation should of never been able to do phy damg with its manna stealing skill.



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