RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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ffeeeee -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (8/1/2014 19:06:28)

I have been 5 different class in the last month and a i can confidently say that cyber hunter is the weakest over all class and that is because of it's energy regen. Instead of static charge improving with strength is should be a flat amount gained. With static charge gaining more energy with higher strength this lowers the build diversity of ch because builds that don't have a good energy regen from static cannot stand with builds that take and gain a lot.

IK that other people have already suggested this



lionblades -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (8/1/2014 21:57:33)

ch is bad for stall battles but decent in fast kill. all class has pros and cons but I agree that the biggest con is the energy. It is why ch is bad vs long battle bosses like Saeva



ffeeeee -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (8/2/2014 9:13:32)

^ yea
Now that i'm a cyber i know that i can't defeat ncps over high health 3000, which kinda sucks. The worst part is i like longer battles and i'm more of a 5 focus user.



edwardvulture -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (8/17/2014 15:11:32)

Static Charge is not a reliable energy source at all. CH just does not have many options. The current state of CH encourages us to use the high EP glass cannon build with poison, massacre, and malfunction. I'm sure we've all seen that build many times. What really should have been done about CH in the very beginning was to give it a concept like blood lust but with energy. If the energy regen only improves with strength, it kills variety for the class.

Another issue for CH is that they are currently only effective with energy blades.



nowras -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (8/19/2014 11:28:33)

Shadow Arts is one of the most useless skills in this game. I think it needs a change.

Energy Cost: 0

Improves with: nothing

Requirements: Support (24-26-28-30-32-34-36-38-40-42)

Warm Up: 0 Cool Down: 4

Reduces a % of your enemy's energy drain skills and cores and increases your energy by a % of your maximum EP Lasts for 3 turns.


Level 1 : 10% - 8%

Level 2 : 15% - 10%

Level 3 : 20% - 12%

Level 4 : 25% - 14%

Level 5 : 30% - 16%

Level 6 : 35% - 18%

Level 7 : 40% - 20%

Level 8 : 45% - 22%

Level 9 : 48% - 24%

Level 10 : 50% - 25%

Note: 25% of energy recovery lasts for 3 turns how? like I have 1000 energy 25% of it is 250 so ill get 250 over 3 turns 84-83-83



Stonehawk -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (8/19/2014 18:27:05)

@edwardvulture
No, they're not only effective with energy blades. It's exactly the opposite. Malfunction can be countered with shields, but if you use physical blades most will need 2 turns if they want to protect against malf and your weapon. Also, All their skills are energy, so if they don't protect against malfunction you can do considerable damage. (just some examples)

@nowras
No way, lol. I mean, absolutely NOT. Way too OP, it would mess the game completely, ruining all other classes.
1- Massacre + poison builds are already strong, this will make them completely unbeatable. Massacre will be impossible to be countered, poison loops will dominate on both Cyber hunters and Bounty hunters (don't forget they also have shadow arts), energy will go up and stay high on even a higher proportion than parasite, which everyone is already complaining because it's giving good unblockable damage and draining + recovering a small amount for some turns.

If Shadow arts worked like that, it would not only counter parasites completely, but also makes all other classes feel like insects, lol. Static smasher, for example, is already blockable. If halved it would be completely owned. Hunters will be everywhere.

2- A FREE skill cannot have such OP effects like this. Two effects.

This is how I would imagine the skill description, trying to take some of your suggestion:
"Fade into the shadows, protecting the target from a percentage of all damage and energy drain for 3 turns"

or my suggestion, just increasing 1 more turn but a single effect:
"Fade into the shadows, protecting the target from a percentage of all damage for 4 turns"



theholyfighter -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (8/27/2014 2:49:27)

Static Charge
Marks a target, granting energy to players that attack the marked target.
Improves With: Skill Level
quote:

Level 1: 20% Damage to Energy
Level 2: 23% Damage to Energy
Level 3: 26% Damage to Energy
Level 4: 28% Damage to Energy
Level 5: 30% Damage to Energy
Level 6: 32% Damage to Energy
Level 7: 34% Damage to Energy
Level 8: 36% Damage to Energy
Level 9: 38% Damage to Energy
Level 10: 40% Damage to Energy

Cool Down: 3 Turns
Requirements:
- Level 2
-Stat:
quote:


16 Technology (+2 per skill level increase)
Level 1: 16 Technology
Level 2: 18 Technology
Level 3: 20 Technology
Level 4: 22 Technology
Level 5: 24 Technology
Level 6: 26 Technology
Level 7: 28 Technology
Level 8: 30 Technology
Level 9: 32 Technology
Level 10: 34 Technology

Cost: None

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shadow Arts
Fade into shadows, sneak towards the target, stealing the target's current rage with a stab, dealing 85% unblockable primary damage
Improves With: Skill Level
quote:

Level 1: 15% Damage to Health
Level 2: 20% Rage Steal
Level 3: 23% Rage Steal
Level 4: 26% Rage Steal
Level 5: 29% Rage Steal
Level 6: 32% Rage Steal
Level 7: 34% Rage Steal
Level 8: 36% Rage Steal
Level 9: 38% Rage Steal
Level 10: 40% Rage Steal

Cool Down: 3 Turns
Requirements:
- Level 10
-Stat:
quote:


24 Support (+2 per skill level increase)
Level 1: 24 Support
Level 2: 26 Support
Level 3: 28 Support
Level 4: 30 Support
Level 5: 32 Support
Level 6: 34 Support
Level 7: 36 Support
Level 8: 38 Support
Level 9: 40 Support
Level 10: 42 Support

Cost:
quote:


150 Energy (+10 per skill level increase)
Level 1: 150 Energy
Level 2: 160 Energy
Level 3: 170 Energy
Level 4: 180 Energy
Level 5: 190 Energy
Level 6: 200 Energy
Level 7: 210 Energy
Level 8: 220 Energy
Level 9: 230 Energy
Level 10: 240 Energy



Envy and Jealousy -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (8/31/2014 8:08:23)

Ok so what I have noticed, as a recently changed-to Cyber Hunter, is the lack of physical attacks. Granted I have no idea what to change out or what to put in its place, but I do believe Cyber Hunter needs at least one physical skill that can be a somewhat easy investment for Cybers because besides primary, sidearm, auxiliary, or bot...there is no physical attack for Cyber Hunters.

Also I agree with theholyfighter. An "Energy" version of MoB in place of Static Charge could get rid of the leniency of major Str investment the current Static Charge permits. Granted more Str is better, but I do believe theholyfighter is taking a step in the right direction and I agree 100%.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (8/31/2014 8:20:13)

This makes me thing BHs should get a new EMP skill, which ideally would cost some EP to use, and replace their CheapShot with Static Charge. Coupled with Smoke, they could do a little bit better + it would give them an unblockable attack (which cannot crit nor rage) that isn't locked to any type nor has any effect attached to it. That is, if the above was to go through, so Static Charge (current) wouldn't be shared by the two classes.



Stonehawk -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (8/31/2014 8:28:42)

@Trans

Your suggestion means making a cyber-like class with blood mark. It means bounties will be able to make that same massacre + poison build with additional Health gain. Completely pointless and not supported.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (8/31/2014 8:37:36)

I'm not asking for anyone's support, but throwing ideas around. BHs complained about poor EP return with their Grenade, whilst other say the free drain they have is also a bit too strong + unblockable.

Besides, one build is hardly an excuse. Last time I remember, that build is classified as overpowered by players, because of the Ranks (+Primary damage) and how powerful Strength is - since Massacre, Venom Strike (unblockable) and Static Charge work off your Primary damage, there's no surprise this combo is said to be broken. Perhaps if Strength wasn't as bad (read: more-or-less balanced), there would be no issue with the CH build nor BHs getting some changes.



Stonehawk -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (8/31/2014 8:45:26)

Bounties already got smoke for better chance to hit, and Mark of Blood for getting health on attacks, so they don't need an unblockable offensive energy gaining skill.


theholyfighter is going on the right way, in my opinion. Great suggestions!



kosmo -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (8/31/2014 16:38:49)

i think tht extending the duration of shadow arts to 4 turns would be a good and needed buff for the defencive strategies of ch and bh;
this skill is already pretty fun, mostly due to the fact it reduces energy drains and i doubt tht it could turn into something broken expecially if compared to shields like hibrid armor or blood shield.



Envy and Jealousy -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (9/1/2014 2:22:55)

@kosmo Does Shadow Arts reduce Energy Drains? That is pretty cool to be honest.

Also I have an idea for my previously stated problem with the Cyber Hunter: the lack of physical attacks.

Make Multi-Shot do physical damage rather than energy damage.

This can allow a decent move to be used as most Cyber Hunters tend to dissuade from using it as it not only is yet another energy attack, but yet it increases with Dexterity and is the only skill a Cyber Hunter has that does increase with Dexterity.

I propose that not only should it do physical damage over energy damage, but that it should be increased with either Tech or Support as Cyber Hunters main skills promote investment in either of these two stats and as such should improve with one of these.

I understand that doing this can cause a bit of turmoil but I agree that currently Str build run rampant on most Cyber Hunters so I digress that putting more emphasis on investing into either Tech or Support can be a way for Cyber Hunters to actually have viable builds that don't involve mass amounts of Str investment.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (9/1/2014 7:35:45)

So, I was thinking about CH and BH (and posting this in both threads isn't necessary). If we go with the "Mark of Energy", it would have to work only for yourself - not your ally too, in 2v2, since that would cause a lot of balance issues.
Now, I will go back to the Static Charge for BHs, but it would be a blockable attack with unblockable effect - basically Strike with bonus EP. Their Static Grenade would now only drain EP, and get the same EP cost as Atom Smasher - it's weaker than EMP, but unblock able (as opposed to Atom).

How would this work? For BHs, it's almost always better than Static Grenade, and they wouldn't get too strong of a drain with weak return, like they do now. It may also bring some variety to the class, since it could manage its EP pool better.



Envy and Jealousy -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (9/1/2014 20:32:01)

@Trans First off, hi, :)
Second off, just wondering but why do you keep bringing up BHs in the Cyber Hunter balance thread?

Also I do agree with "Mark of Energy" bringing a lot of balance issues to the table, but it is currently a great suggestion/solution to the current problems with Static Charge: the fat that every Cyber Hunter must invest into Str to get their "money's worth" out of Static Charge. And while Mark of Blood does the same thing, Mark of Blood is still a reliable source of health even without major Str investment, and I feel Mark of Energy would do the same.

All in all, I have stated what the major problems of Cyber Hunters are (lack of physical skill and a more reliable energy regain skill) and I hope this "Balance tool" can help pave a way to fix these classes whether they are OP or UP.



theholyfighter -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (9/2/2014 10:41:10)

^What do you mean lacking physical damage? The skills that restrict damage element are bludgeon, fire scythe, fireball, plasma bolt, multi skills, stuns, cannons, and ultimates. That is to say, TM BM and Merc are the only classes with skills with damage types.




Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (9/2/2014 10:44:24)

@ The holy fighter

Actually you missed surgical strike and supercharge which are also locked into one type of damage

Lastly all classes have skills that are damaged locked due to all classes having multi's skills locked to one type and all classes having multi's.



theholyfighter -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (9/2/2014 13:02:43)

Actually I didn't^^
I stated “ultimates”
Btw I indirectly stated the multis too.:P



The berserker killer -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (9/13/2014 10:40:34)

they should mmake static charge do 110% dmgif they are looking for a buff



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (9/13/2014 11:00:59)

Its purpose is to grant Energy, not deal even more damage. There are plenty of ways to buff the EP return, without increasing the damage.



nowras -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (9/14/2014 4:06:34)

Static Charge must be buffed and nerfed in the same time. The buff : It deals 115% damage. Nerf: Blockable.



kosmo -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (9/14/2014 7:14:31)

^i dont see any issue whit static charge being unblokable, it allowes no dex builds and it gives more variety to the class, also if it was blokable it should still grant energy like assimilation and parassite.

the problem whit static charge is that it can easely be nullificated by a shield or intimidate, bringing it near to no gain; i would just give it a flat gain to make it usable for non strenght builds, i do know this was an issue in the past, but that was passive era and ch could reley on skills like plasma armor, while now he is left just whit offensive options.




Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (9/14/2014 7:26:54)

^ Such as % of Primary weapon damage - not total - being returned as EP? +360 damage (L40 Sword) * 70% = 252 EP returned. Probably would have to be a bit lower to compensate for unblockable damage on top of it. This way every build can take advantage of it, not just Strength, and unblockable damage would favour Strength builds instead. (higher damage than tanks)



kosmo -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (9/14/2014 8:29:28)

yeah i was thinking of something similiar aswell, we really have to many ep/hp gains which incrase whit strenght.

making it scale on basic wep dmg is a pretty good idea, but it should be tested right at lower lvls, whatever i support this.



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