Mages are not the problem as such. (Full Version)

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Noobatron x3000 -> Mages are not the problem as such. (3/19/2014 13:14:55)

In my view and I've had it for some Mages are not OP.

In omega mana control is king. Mages are the best at this add in the fact strength and hp are completely broken alas why every single class for the most are part are using strength hp builds.

Now you hit the mages energy control to hard what happens ? When the developers come to there sence and deal with the real problem strength and hp. The mages are left with nothing but dex casters and uif they cant keep mana they're left with nothing. Its dangerous to mess with the mages energy control.

And I certainly don't think any class should be touched till the stats are sorted . And then we can see where they are with the skill trees.

particular stats are broken I don't think you can fix class balance without fixing that first. and even if you could whats the point.

If every class ever got balanced (unlikely certainly not the case now) If the stats are broken every class just exploits the broken stats neglecting the others. And we are no better then when we started . Of course u could not balance classes without balancing stats anyway since some classes are better at pulling off offensive builds and some better at defensive.



Buffy A. Summers -> RE: Mages are not the problem as such. (3/19/2014 14:48:04)

The Current High Health/High Strength Build Is Defintely OPed With Mages Because Of Their Ability To Basically Heal Loop With Energy Steal And Recharge.

Far Too Many Players Are Currently Using This Build Type.

Once Upon A Time, There Were Several Effective Class/Build Types And Combinations. It Made Battling Much More Varied And Unexpected.

Now, More Then Ever, There Is A Clear And Dominant Exploit Build That, Especially With The Right Cores, Makes A Player Extremely Difficult To Beat.

To Me, That Is Not Very Balanced Or Fun, Because It Forces You To Become One Of Them To Compete And Succeed.

~ Buffy




Noobatron x3000 -> RE: Mages are not the problem as such. (3/19/2014 14:52:58)

the build your reffering to can be stopped by other classes strength high hp builds especially the ones with poison and not to mention out little op buddies the abyss spiders to cancel out the heal looping issue.

Again making my point the balance issue lies at stats more then skills.

why attack one class when all that would happen is the builds from the other classes using strength hp would take the top spot leaving mage dead in the water



Xendran -> RE: Mages are not the problem as such. (3/19/2014 15:36:11)

And you have come across the exact reason that in my skill revamps, every single skill has a LOT of power behind it.
Because if they don't, strength just totally obliterates the balance of the game with the way stats work currently.



s0u1ja b0y -> RE: Mages are not the problem as such. (3/19/2014 15:42:57)

The problem is weapons being equal and lack of build diversity. The moment a build found that's better than most everyone just can copy it because weapons are equal.



Noobatron x3000 -> RE: Mages are not the problem as such. (3/19/2014 15:48:22)

So the people who have the op weapon should be the only one's with a huge advantage.

So were going to leave the game as broken as it is but make the game more p2w. (which is what your doing the minute you make weapons different with credit prices and how scarce credits are)

Nah that would make things worse the p2w culture of earliar phases did this game no good either.



Xendran -> RE: Mages are not the problem as such. (3/19/2014 16:00:20)

quote:

The problem is weapons being equal and lack of build diversity. The moment a build found that's better than most everyone just can copy it because weapons are equal.


Weapons being equal is actually not the cause of no build diversity. The part that's bolded is.

The thing is, there are only a very very small number of builds that can compete with the high tier builds, and not using one of them is absolute suicide.
If there were 50 equally viable builds and you couldn't just "find a better one" because they all had their advantages and disadvantages, there would be significantly more build diversity.
The existence of builds that are just straight up the best in the game is a massive issue.



edwardvulture -> RE: Mages are not the problem as such. (3/19/2014 17:02:47)

The best way to increase diversity IMO is to bring passives back. If every class can have their own niche and every build within those classes can have their own niche then the amount of builds available would be tremendous.



Xendran -> RE: Mages are not the problem as such. (3/19/2014 17:10:16)

I really don't mean to come off as elitist with this but i really wouldn't trust them to be able to create a passive tree that actually changes up the flow of battles. They have shown this by the fact that their "evolved" classes all have skills that do almost nothing out of the ordinary except a few ones like Blood Commander/Shield, which are just *barely* out of the ordinary.

As for cores, it takes them an extremely long time to come out with a new core that does something out of the ordinary, and when they do it is nearly always imbalanced. Critical Heal is the exception to this, and it is a well designed skill. I even like the fact that it only activates at a breakpoint of 20% rather than scaling with your whole hp, because it gives an interesting dynamic to getting more HP in order to be able to have a higher chance of crit healing.

If they added a passive tree, i would want it to fundamentally change the way that you play your build based on what ones you have.



zion -> RE: Mages are not the problem as such. (3/19/2014 17:46:18)

Well, they could make class-specific passive cores - the system is entirely in place, they would just need some good & balanced ideas for the effects.



Xendran -> RE: Mages are not the problem as such. (3/19/2014 17:51:57)

Think about the number of good ideas posted on these forums.
Think about the number of good ideas implemented.
Think about the number of bad ideas implemented.

You can come to your own conclusion about what is going to happen based on these.

EDIT: It sounds like you basically want something like this



rajkumar -> RE: Mages are not the problem as such. (3/20/2014 1:21:12)

I finally became mage after gamma and its taking me sometime to adjust with the power and might of this class but truthfully every class is the same. I am using the build i'm using from the time when focus build came and it seems to work perfectly in new ed too.. [:D] I am enjoying playing with mage Its fun and we can experiment lots of build in it......[8D]

~Soni akhouri :)



noremako -> RE: Mages are not the problem as such. (3/28/2014 18:06:07)

Its not so much strength is too strong all the time.

Mercenaries rarely hit high levels because they die out around lvl 10-15ish.

This is because the scaling of skills is screwed up.

Even though now skills power up with level it is overpowered at low levels and is underpowered at the highest.

Mercenaries have no reliable skill builds at low levels. Other classes like this die out too, which is why the Mercs you see have usually been TM's or some other class that have changed.

Hmm, skills should (at the beginning) deal slightly over the damage of a weapon. My low level alt, with a high zerker and even with 70 strength or so does far less then a cheaper overload skill.

And it can still miss.

So yes, scaling should be revised.

Lower damage at low levels, but much faster, or at least appropriate scaling at high levels.

+15 every level?

Or even +10 every level, then at level 30+ it scales by 20 or something.

?



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Mages are not the problem as such. (3/28/2014 18:09:24)

@noremako

Support builds work extremely well at lower levels.



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