Respect for Respect (Full Version)

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DeathGuard -> Respect for Respect (6/30/2014 23:01:05)

Many players due to the recent visual bug not showing Legion's current score, posted negative and insulting posts about the Devs.
Many accused the Devs of doing unfair interventions that were favoring Exile players.
Even after the bug was fixed and explained in detail, not many people were grateful or even apologized for their words against the Devs.

Is this how the community behaves? They rant and complain assuming Devs are handling everything to favor a certain group? IS the community not even grateful to what the Devs does for the game? Is this the correct behavior a gaming community should have? Doesn't Devs deserve respect just as much as they respect the gaming community?

Pretty much this sort of questions is what makes me think that the ED community still has so much to improve and that they shouldn't be favored by the Devs.
If you have done some of the previous things mentioned, think about how you have behave and what you should do to help the community improve, and not sink in useless rants and complaints that just bitters the forum and the game more and more.



Combatoid -> RE: Respect for Respect (6/30/2014 23:04:26)

Consumerism my friend.



DeathGuard -> RE: Respect for Respect (6/30/2014 23:12:55)

@Combatoid: Quite sad but that's one of the reasons why ED community behaves this way.



Mother1 -> RE: Respect for Respect (6/30/2014 23:41:44)

In game it is even worse.

I have seen many exile screaming the staff is cheating because they took away the 2 million point lead when fixing a bug. I was just speaking with about 20 upset exile because of this when I was doing battle.

But on another note is it just me or did they really lower the drop rate of war weapons if you aren't using the commander core?



lionblades -> RE: Respect for Respect (6/30/2014 23:51:36)

^Not sure, but I have been experiencing quite significantly lower drop rates than that of the previous war battles. Currently, I have 25 1vs1 wins and have gotten 3 bombs. Probably just a fluke and a stroke of bad luck, but I will test out some more tomorrow just to make sure.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Respect for Respect (7/1/2014 0:37:34)

What is just really sad is compared to other gaming communities, this isn't even bad at all in comparison.

Well, there's not much you can expect from a community for a game that's directed more at younger and newer players these days.



suboto -> RE: Respect for Respect (7/1/2014 0:46:44)

i would expect the drop rates to reduce the wars almost over so supplies on drops are decreaseing



Pemberton -> RE: Respect for Respect (7/1/2014 1:14:06)

Random drop rates changes, random war rallies, random 2,000,000 lead, random 2,000,000 catch-up...This war should be Random Wars...



Bagofbricks -> RE: Respect for Respect (7/1/2014 8:15:05)

war drops definitely seem much much lower in this war. after spending hours and getting almost no fuel cells i had to buy some war commander cores to save my sanity. I don't really care who wins the war, but having it so hard to rep for the rewards is quite the turnoff



xzkamityx -> RE: Respect for Respect (7/1/2014 8:20:07)

The community could be worse it could be like the LoL community where they want to kill somebody because you won a fight against them while they where jungling, but about the war drops, I haven't noticed any difference from other wars(my not mean much because the last wars I played where the frysteland and infernal) im getting a drop almost every 10 wins which is ok with me.



Bagofbricks -> RE: Respect for Respect (7/1/2014 8:28:12)

past few wars were probably like 1 every 2 or 3 wins (for me at least). Not sure why its been so much different now



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: Respect for Respect (7/1/2014 9:42:57)

So let me get this straight. Someone with a direct line of communication comes in saying what we did to the developers was wrong implying that we really could have hurt them with some of the terrible things we said about them and their product just out of spite and you people want to use this topic to talk about war drops.

As of right now Death is the closest thing to any PR that the Dev team has and only three of you will give him the time of day. That's really what this topic is showing. Well time for my rant.

Welcome to the internet ladies and gentlemen. Here we run on the weirdest set of rules known to man and that is if you are in a position of "fame" you need to hold yourself to a higher standard while in that position. If you are a prominent name in anyway relating to EpicDuel then when relating to EpicDuel you need to be respectful. I'm not saying you need to praise the Dev's but when you disagree, and all of us disagree even the people working on the game, you need to be respectful, use constructive criticism instead of just saying, "It sucks!" If something really ticks you off leave for thirty minutes to an hour and once you have a level head discuss the matter with everyone. Do not take to twitter and swear up a storm so fierce that a single tweet would ban or even perma-ban you from these forums like I saw last night.

Once I had given up on a fellow YouTube commentor, someone who is trying to make himself "internet famous," I sat down and apologized to the developers because if one person is going to say those things to Titan I know Charfade, Rabblefroth, and Nightwraith all got the exact same treatment. Now put yourself in their shoes. If you are just doing your job, you took the weekend off and you come back and fix the errors in your work only to be met with swearing that would put CoD to shame, how would you feel? Personally I have some pretty hard skin because that's what you need when you put yourself out there but still I felt sick after reading those tweets



Mother1 -> RE: Respect for Respect (7/1/2014 10:09:12)

@ OWA

Sorry for steering the topic off the rails with my thoughts on that subject it was just something that bothered me.

However, something like this especially with wars (Blaming the developers for messing with the war in anyway) isn't something that is new. It was done in just about every war other than the ebilcorp war. Normally I try to stay away from that myself but I thought something was fishy in the beginning so I voiced my thoughts on it.

Also at one point in time even you thought something was up as well to a degree which was why you had made the suggestion of showing the entire influence board to help calm down these thoughts.

But Exploding penguin makes a good point. This game is aimed at younger audiences and children even though it was originally a teen to young adult game. Thanks to that and having most of the members being younger that tends to happen. Not saying it is good but it does happen.



theholyfighter -> RE: Respect for Respect (7/1/2014 10:10:45)

War bomb drop rates have been lowered about 3 times it was before...



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: Respect for Respect (7/1/2014 10:16:36)

@Mother You were always reasonable. You said something was fishy and left it at that. I said the huge spike didn't seem right and left it at that. I'd say if you went onto twitter you could probably fine some of the hate but I know the account I was referencing deleted the majority of his obsenities.

Also you had that in as an afterthought whereas some people only replied to your comment and nothing relating to the topic



xzkamityx -> RE: Respect for Respect (7/1/2014 10:22:48)

@ OWA the reason why the thread changed from the respect to the war drops is A(we more than likely weren't the one to tweet that nonsense B(mother asked a question so we decided to answer C(not sure how to put this in words but) death wrote about something completely true, something that really didn't need to be answered, it just needed to be understood.

start rant here....
Yes the ED community is bad as a regular community. It is still one of the best online community's I have seen. You can go to the WoW community, LoL community, Cod community, Battlefield community, EA community, any community for the nexus games, and any community for the aeria games. We are doing really well for an online gaming community. Yes we can improve on how we treat others online the same way we can help with that in life. Over half of the community is made up of some of us that haven't graduated high school yet or haven't graduated college. The community will get better if you give it time, the balance will get better if you give it time, AE in general will get better if you give them time. I'm sure most people that are above the age of five know that to get respect and have people listen to you, you need to show them respect first. The fact that this is the internet people will not think about there are other people that actually are on the other side of the computer screen, and not just some operating system.
end rant here....



DeathGuard -> RE: Respect for Respect (7/1/2014 19:12:25)

I have seen some nice opinions but please don't derail the thread's OP and lets leave the bomb rate thing out.
It would be good if someone share their experiences in other gaming communities and compare them to ED community.



kosmo -> RE: Respect for Respect (7/2/2014 3:52:25)

It looks like drops increase during war rally to me.



SMGS -> RE: Respect for Respect (7/3/2014 8:59:29)

I feel that what needs to be said about the messages people had for the developers for the past few days has been addressed. That said, I'm sure the developers are fully capable of handling such harassment. This is not to say that is an excuse to harass them. I was actually more disappointed that certain people, who actually agree with the choices the developers make, received the messages that they did. It's really too bad opinions can't be stated without getting attacked personally. Attack the idea, not the person.

Here's what I will say on this, though. The fact that people have derailed this topic (and it was derailed, whether or not those posts disappear or not when you've read this) drills the point home as to the amount of respect that some show. This isn't to blame the individual who started it, but something as simple as this illustrates the point DeathGuard is making. If you create a thread and someone decides to change the topic altogether, how is that respectful?

In terms of comparing EpicDuel to other gaming communities, my feeling is that it is slowly becoming worst in comparison, while others are becoming better. In general, though, I've noticed that it is usually fan-made communities (including clan/faction forums) that are more positive and respectful. Obviously, the main reason being that people with common interests move to that community, rather than being injected to a community with many others in the game. Unfortunately, poor moderation left EpicDuel Reborn (a now defunct fan community) to essentially die, despite generally having a more positive tone than these forums, in my opinion.


At the same time, I think it's unfair to leave the developer-side unacknowledged here. The issue was definitely a large one, despite being a graphical bug. Whether or not the misleading scores influenced the outcome - we won't know. Would the Legions have 'given up' seeing they were 2 million behind and Exile was getting war rallies seemingly unfairly? It's definitely a disappointing thing to happen knowing that so much time has gone into the war system. Despite this, I appreciated the transparency and detail in explaining the issue (to the point of a picture from the database).

Knowing that, I think there were two things that were done wrong here. Firstly, an apology should have been issued on the Design Notes. There was an apology issued by Titan on Twitter (not linked due to the colorful language in the replies), "Apologies for the War scoring error, and thanks to those in the forum for posting details about the Rally glitch that lead to this fix." This is great and all, but not everyone reads Twitter. I would have wanted to see even a one line apology on the Design Notes.

The other issue here was the lack of exposure this Design Note received. Mother1 states that the attacks are much stronger in-game. This is likely because many are not aware of the issue, and all they see is a 2 million jump in Legion. A small notification stating there was an issue, with a link to the Design Notes, would have been nice for more people to be informed.



Rui. -> RE: Respect for Respect (7/3/2014 11:13:07)

Previous wars show that exiles can win by a lead of millions... The morale of the legions was destroyed when we had a lead of over a mil and they just rolled over and played dead. Suddenly this war even though with the so called visual bug legions got red bull up their spine to fight when exiles were leading over 2 mil ? They kept fighting when war rallies were being given to exiles as well during the visual bug ? You and i can keep on reasoning if this was rigged ot not but you cannot change the minds of players. Hate, trash talk, name calling are part of a good community.. If there was nothing wrong there wouldnt be a community.. Just design notes. You cant demand respect and ed hasnt done anything to gain respect from us with the ever so occuring nerfs and lies and broken promises. So lets not go there... Have fun and move on.



Ranloth -> RE: Respect for Respect (7/3/2014 12:44:34)

I am sorry, why do the Devs need to work for getting people's (players') respect again? After all, it IS their game and they spend time developing it 5 days a week (full time job).
They can respect their players, but individuals is another story. You have their respect as a player, since you have freedom of saying anything you want about their game and it's your view (restrictions in freedom of speech are another story, Forum wise), but that's as long as you're not being outright disrespectful. As an individual, you're basically "popular" in the sense that you've contributed to the game in the past, helpful in-game, etc - they may respect you as you for that.

Long story short, they expect respect from you, before it can be returned. Sorta, since they have to respect players anyway, so let's say, don't be rude and outright disrespectful (and maybe constructive, NOT just pointing the bad OR saying the game has no flaws at all), and you'll be gaining respect off them as an individual.

Respecting one's views and carrying out one's suggestions are two different things too - they may respect your opinion but it doesn't mean it has to be listened to.
By the way, don't poke at demanding respect. Players expect the same and then accuse them of lying because their suggestion wasn't put into game, which means they blatantly don't listen (or just disagree).



SMGS -> RE: Respect for Respect (7/3/2014 13:48:25)

Hate, trash talking and name calling are part of a TYPICAL community, not a GOOD one. Achieving that is near impossible, but I've seen communities wherein the regulars respect each other - it's a given, it's implied, everyone is expected, everyone knows - and those who disrespect others (people who troll, flame, etc.) come occasionally but don't stay for long. We've failed to get to this point, and so far it has been a downward spiral.

I've already acknowledged that we will likely never know whether or not this graphical glitch impacted how much people fought during this war and that more could have done to properly address the issue to the public.

If you think the developers have rigged this or any other war (to no benefit for them, really), misled, lied, broke promises, nerfed what did not need to be nerfed, buffed what did not need to be buffed, made poor decisions, removed useful features and failed to meet expectations, then you need to re-evaluate why you are playing EpicDuel only to hate on and trash talk the developers of this game. You've likely poured in the money, so why pour in more time. Think about that for a moment.



Rui. -> RE: Respect for Respect (7/3/2014 14:00:46)

Respect for follow players and forumers is a given. But when you been lied to.. Eg: charfades tweet.. Abyss bots will be exclusive promo.. Broken promieses.. Rares never to return.. Boom bunny aux is back.. And then rare exclusive bots returning.. These are a few the list can go on.. The respect for the devs reduces to a point where you dont trust. With that aside.. the reason why a few old timers are still here is just for their friends and that word they call hope, lets hope they realize before they blame html5 and other games for a reason why they lost players. A crying baby gets milk.. Lets hope for a better future.



DeathGuard -> RE: Respect for Respect (7/3/2014 14:22:14)

@SMGS: You made so valid points but there is one that I think I should adressed.
quote:

Knowing that, I think there were two things that were done wrong here. Firstly, an apology should have been issued on the Design Notes. There was an apology issued by Titan on Twitter (not linked due to the colorful language in the replies), "Apologies for the War scoring error, and thanks to those in the forum for posting details about the Rally glitch that lead to this fix." This is great and all, but not everyone reads Twitter. I would have wanted to see even a one line apology on the Design Notes.

The other issue here was the lack of exposure this Design Note received. Mother1 states that the attacks are much stronger in-game. This is likely because many are not aware of the issue, and all they see is a 2 million jump in Legion. A small notification stating there was an issue, with a link to the Design Notes, would have been nice for more people to be informed.

This is something I think could be improved. An apology on twitter, DNs AND In-game would have prove to be the best and next time would be a nice start to make this a habit. Necessarily, as you said, not all people look at Twitter or read the DNs but everyone looks at the update notifications and other sort of messages in-game.

Also, the way the explanation of the bug was given, I think it gave most of the behind scenes details that shouldn't have been given since people started to speculate about the other damages and started to make more "unfair dev interventions" theories. Still, Devs deserve all the credits for this explaining the bug so well. Not just a "We fix it and now the war bar is working correctly."

@Rui.:
quote:

Previous wars show that exiles can win by a lead of millions... The morale of the legions was destroyed when we had a lead of over a mil and they just rolled over and played dead. Suddenly this war even though with the so called visual bug legions got red bull up their spine to fight when exiles were leading over 2 mil ? They kept fighting when war rallies were being given to exiles as well during the visual bug ? You and i can keep on reasoning if this was rigged ot not but you cannot change the minds of players. Hate, trash talk, name calling are part of a good community.. If there was nothing wrong there wouldnt be a community.. Just design notes. You cant demand respect and ed hasnt done anything to gain respect from us with the ever so occuring nerfs and lies and broken promises. So lets not go there... Have fun and move on.
It isn't Dev's Fault Legion has a lesser population than Exile, but even if Exile has more population, Legion did a great job keeping wth Exile.

Hate, trash talk, name calling ain't part of a good community but rather a typical as SMGS mentioned. e.g. If you hate, trashtalk and name call the place where you work, do you think it you will be seen as a good employer in that company/business place? Think about it for some minutes because I know you will reach the same answer as most of the people.

ED Devs have no necessity to ask for respect because they deserve respect as the human beings they are, just as all of us, players, who receive respect from them. ED Devs have made all the changes to improve the game, sometimes they have failed to achieve their objectives with buff and nerfs, but they are still trying to make this game to meet most of the players' expectations.

I can't have fun when people are getting disrepected because players feel like they are in their right to insult Developers. Sadly, I'm here to defend them, not because they asked, but because I feel they deserve all the respect that should be given to them, not only for their work, but because of the kind of people they are. I will continue to move on as I defend Developers and their works, it is fine if you disagree but don't think you have the right to disrespect them because no one has the right to disrespect other person.



Rui. -> RE: Respect for Respect (7/3/2014 14:46:57)

This is a free world, everyone is entitled to their opinion if you disagree thats your choice. If i feel the need to hate or name call the place i work.. I wouldnt be there cause i dont haven to put up with anything thats not to my liking, i understand your thinking and mine are not alike. Emotions are part of being human, love, hate are all a circle. You only get what you deserve and what you deserve is something that you thread upon. What i have stated is the truth from my point of view.. You can defend them but dont try to cover up in doing so.



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