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The Finnish Phoenix -> RE: =OS= Seventh PvP Elemental Tournament: Sign Up Here! (11/11/2014 4:02:08)
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How hard is it to just be a good person?
Quite hard, because different people have different definitions of what that is. For the same action one could be condemned by one party, tolerated by another and celebrated by a third. Skurge's ban of Iron Hide is a good example of such an action.
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Yeah, but in this case you would be overwhelmed by damage without many ways to mitigate it. In that case you found a way to get through his defense, but there's no way to outlast corruptions for 2 hours.
There's no reason a Neutral vs. Neutral duel with CC Iron Hides banned should take 2 hours.
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(Dylligraphy's Taro, for example, used Counters/CR to counter DM's attacks and IronHides to counter corruptions. He played the character exceptionally well and it did great).
Thanks! We'll see if I can play it well enough in the tournament.
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I think it says a lot about the competitive forum community for OverSoul if most of us want certain CC banned because it'll make matches longer, not because it's a balance issue. Whether it changes anything or not, I'd like to give my opinion and add to the discussion.
Like what? Bare in mind that while "because it'll make matches longer" is an accurate assessment, the "longer" duration in question would potentially be "ad infinitum" due to defensive looping. So while it would be a "longer match", that's not the whole truth of the matter as it's not just a "longer match", it's a stalemate, which is a fundamental problem.
At high levels with all current CC's permitted and all Neutral characters available, a player cannot lose so long as they continue mounting Iron Hides, Shields, and Counters. This turns duels into waiting games rather than contests of skill. Patience is a virtue and a skill to an extent when it comes to any duel, but should be one of several measures, not be the sole determinant of the best Neutral player.
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Neutral vs Neutral is well balanced in my experience.
With CC Iron Hides allowed, optimal Neutral defence trumps optimal Neutral offence. That being said, I feel I should address a special Neutral character, Arcane Ranger. While her SuperCharged attacks could potentially break through a Neutral stalemate including CC Iron Hides and could make progress against an opponent who does nothing but mount defences, she has to make considerable compromises to her defensive potential for these attacks to be possible. Cumulative Counter Attack damage with conservative uses of standard attacks would easily punish her offensive-oriented overextension to the point where she essentially poses no more of a threat to a fully-equipped defensive fortress than any other Neutral character. When the problem of a stalemate can only be resolved by a losing alternative, it's still a problem.
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Corruption is completely negated by 2 Ironhides spread over 2 turns. But while it's common to draw an Ironhide nearly every turn, it's next to impossible to do so every time.
With Iron Hide CC's available you can have as many as 7 Iron Hides in a 20 card deck with each hand having 5 cards (there are characters with fewer than 15 fixed cards like Clan Archer, Clan Warrior, and Squire, but they don't have 2 native Iron Hides so they can't achieve ratios as high). While the odd lapse might occur with the optimal ratio, they'd happen so seldom that the Shields and Counters built up while spamming Iron Hides would cancel out any damage that might have been done during a lapse until the Iron Hide spamming could continue.
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Ironhide helps negate DoTs and weak instant damage, but Counterattack bypasses Ironhide completely.
Counter Attack cannot bypass Iron Hide unless it is triggered. Why trigger Counter Attack when you can mount defences forever? The answer is of course to get the fight over with, which means losing.
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On the topic of CC, whatever you choose to CC can be beaten by another CC in Neutral vs Neutral.
On the contrary, CC Iron Hides result in an impenetrable defence that cannot be beaten by any offence so long as the defender has time to stall, which is the problem that necessitates a ban of CC Iron Hide.
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On the matter of time, I don't think allowing Ironhide CC would make a large difference. I played some Neutral vs Neutral duels against Signeous last night, and even when we both CC'd Ironhide it didn't add much to the battle time.
How many did each of you CC and were you both mounting defences without compromising energy that could be spent on defences for attacks? If not, could one of you have done better if you'd mounted more defences or included more Iron Hide CC's?
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But ultimately nothing's at stake and it's just a friendly tournament, so take it as you will. :B
Alas, these tournaments put pride at stake. Player participation wouldn't be conditional if nothing were at stake. Achilles wouldn't have refused to participate if nothing were at stake, but something was at stake then. Like Achilles, The Jop refuses to fight, for as the defending champion, he is under pressure to excel which he feels he could do better before under the unaltered conditions previously in place. Sadly, the conditions must be altered because defensive looping causes stalemates which is a fundamental problem.
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