RE: epic duel vs others browser games (Full Version)

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The berserker killer -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/16/2015 0:18:48)

Actually I tried them on a rank 4, nice to know you're trying to think ahead kid. Result was even better due to the fact that if youre under rank 5 you have a higher chance of encountering lower levels. And the game database isn't low because they need more experienced testers....thats just an undeniable fact. The database is low because there's no fun. I'm not a balance fanatic like you are, I will never complain about something being overwhelmingly powerful because the truth is that us experienced players have builds up our sleeves just waiting to counter fotm builds. Not only that, but things are SUPPOSED TO BE HARD IN A PVP GAME. Go play call of duty with Elite players and die 50 times and complain about the balance. Its practically the same thing here. Imo, and I am entitled to my own opinion. what separates ED from any other game is its players. Other games have adults, just as ED started off with, who were willing to conquer new challenges and do whatever it takes to become the best. Thats how this game used to be. Then players, kids, start coming, complaining about something being too hard because they don't want to put the work in, start getting jealous because other players (adults) had time to rank up faster and level up faster than others or have the money to buy promo packages, and these same kids start looking for shortcuts instead of taking the long and grinding road that other players have taken. These kids think that what they're doing is balance? All kids suggest is "take this feature away, limit this, and restrcit that". The difference between kids and the adults who write in forums is that 1) we love this game with each and every beat of our dying hearts 2) we would give anything to see this game strive and 3) we're adults. These kids, premature players, are quick to suggest countless nerfs without offering a replacement. Think I'm lying? You wouldnt find a single discussion where players such as myself, xendran, variation, mother, Ambien are suggesting nerfs without a replacement. but these younger players? All they care about is taking away and you cant really balme them. They're young and they're swarming forums. Looks like all there is to do is sit back and watch them burn the game




dfo99 -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/16/2015 0:48:12)

quote:

You know the game goes down hill when the upcoming release is about bunnies


i really don't know who ask for bunnies or even holidays related events, instead amazing updates who allows the players do amazing things in the game or fsi suggests. especially when the heavy varium spenters is in majority adults. this is a great point because take many time from devs.

about the testers, if the testers said ok for the katherax (there is no way to play str builds against this) they can say of for anything stupid thing. actually i am forced to play with focus 5 builds ¬¬"




Squrwogrona -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/16/2015 6:15:36)

@Killer, Machaar

Where the hell you've been all my life. Jokes aside, the truth is, big varium spenders = 90% are adults with their own hardly earned money. Yet we see the devs cater to kids instead of keeping with their vision of PvP fights, which is what brought us to this game in the first place.

Now devs tell me, would you rather have here a smaller group of paying customers who have played for months/years? Or would you rather have huge playerbase from which 90% of people just cry about something and don't pay a dime?

Right now, you're doing everything in your power to drive us oldtimers away. We wrote countless posts about what is wrong and nothing changes.

Instead you just continue to nerf/buff this and that, without any concept whatsoever, releasing tons of weapons, hairstyles; come on we don't need dressing dolls... we're not 5 yrs old.

We came here to duke it out and you are bogging that down with a ton of features that are meaningless to this concept. On top of that, the key problem is PvP, which is still broken and you haven't touched hair on that for months. You are just hotfixing symptoms and doing nothing about actual disease.

I'm not sure why the proverbial dam broke in this thread, but I am glad it happened. You took away lots of good features and gave us worse substitute or nothing in return.

On the thought of browser games dying out: well, times change, now everyone has smartphones etc... but browsers and flash are still here, so why not enjoy playing a "relic" from the past while we still can? Nevermind it is now pretty bad, just think about it in general.





The berserker killer -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/16/2015 9:12:26)

Actually I'd like to believe that the proverbial dam hasn't broken. If anything I would love for this thread to stay open so people can actually compare and contrast ED from other games and what actually made ED such a great game.

And you're right, when the playerbase had 1500+ players, I wouldn't doubt if 1000 of those were heavy spenders who were above 18 and loved duking it out in this online pvp game. If anything, you barely saw any threads about "More MIssions" when features such as flags were out. Or when we could launch turrets after each other from our faction HQs.

Sure, browser games eventually die....but not like this. Not when they have this much potential. When I hear that "browser games die out" I love to reference the fact that thousands of players are still playing games like AQ (Original Adventure Quest, not AQW) and DF, which came out before ED, yet they haven't died out.




Ranloth -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/16/2015 9:36:48)

quote:

When I hear that "browser games die out" I love to reference the fact that thousands of players are still playing games like AQ (Original Adventure Quest, not AQW) and DF, which came out before ED, yet they haven't died out.

When making comparisons, make sure you are aware of the active Dev Team working on each game. AQ still has 2 or 3 programmers left, 2 full-time Artists + 2 Apprentices*, and 3 full-time Writers too. The team was even bigger a couple of years ago. AQ went down from 5-7K players online during the "downtime" (and 12-15K during busy periods), to just over 1K players online. Also, recently, they have also opted-out for smaller releases in order to put more work into bigger ones. Small releases often include updating older weapons (stats + art), and not everyone benefits from it either - just like how ED players don't want coreless weapons being released, despite the fact there are people who benefit from it.

You can't exactly say they did something wrong there, when the decline has occured from '10 onwards. Same applies to DF, and MQ. Check Google Trends and type in the names of every single AE game, and see for yourself. Quick example: http://i.imgur.com/9PyABd9.png (green = AQW, purple = AQ)
Another example vs. AQW: http://i.imgur.com/zUzrJBm.png (included EpicDuel and Epic Duel for sake of consistency). The spikes you can see mostly occur during Christmas, when players have more time to spend on games thus more returning players.

It's not browser games dying, but Flash. Flash itself is a dead platform, which was already abandoned by Adobe when it comes to further development. Many companies out there are making a switch to Unity, HTML5, etc., to cater for this change. Browser games (in general) aren't going anywhere, but Flash browser games are dying.

* Creating and coding new weapons is a bit more difficult than in AQW/DF/ED.




Lord Machaar -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/16/2015 9:44:11)

TBK/

Putting insults you sent me aside, because I have dealt with them in my own way, no need to go further in this.

Treating your ideas, becuse only stupid people who talk about other people and not ideas.

quote:

Go play call of duty with Elite players and die 50 times and complain about the balance.


Alright first of all here: There is a difference between something imbalanced and something hard. In CoD, unlike ED, players of same level are met with each other. In ED the total difference, a rank 60 faces a rank 1, here the problem is not if the player is experienced or not, because being a rank 60 player doesn't mean always you are experienced, because frankly doing 30k NPCs won't grant you any experience (Not character experience but player experience = intelligence). There are some dumb players who think they are experienced because they make builds that suck but work because legendary points give an extra buff to the build. Furthermore, these builds work also because these players meet low rank players.

So please don't consider yourself an experienced players because you are playing with a character that has 60 ranks and farms low rank players, if like COD, atleast a rank 30 - 60 should never meet a rank 1, because it's obvious that advantage is clear, and even so, it's not even considered as an advantage.

The problem about you is, you think you know it all, in fact you know nothing. All you do is contradicting with yourself over and over, and sometimes in same post, in one post you say that game needs experienced testers to balance the game, on the other side, you say that OP things shouldn't be nerfed, if one class is OP, keep it op, and buff the other 5 classes. I don't know who is dumb enough to do this, instead of nerfing one class, we will waste two months buffing other 5 classes, what logic is that?
All your arguments are shallow, because you don't really mean them, as a simple example:

quote:

looking for shortcuts instead of taking the long and grinding road that other players have taken.


And I'm sure here you are referring to ranks, do you think doing 100 NPC battles each day for 2 years to reach rank 60 is fun? Hard? Grinding road?
Doing 30k NPC battles and then calling yourself an experienced player isn't right for me atleast.
If PVP was balanced in first place, you wouldn't have to NPC intensively to reach rank 60, and that's why we see that majority choose this path. I don't follow sheep and goats, if this game is a PVP game, it should be a PVP game in every particle of it.
When devs launched this ranking system, they have put high hopes on it, thinking that ED will have the same player base, which will lead to fair battles between all players. But sadly it wasn't the case and we see low rank players facing high rank players, and simply they can't put ranges where rank 30 - 60 meet each other and a rank 1 should never meet a player with rank 40 or higher, but then high rank players will wait 20 minutes to find a battle. This is the only replacement without nerfing or revamping the ranking system, which is sadly due to the low player base, it can't be done. This leaves us with one solution which is revamping the ranking system, sadly we don't have experienced testers to do the move. We had Dax, donna matrix, Wiseman, Elf priest jzaanu, which were moderators and same time testers/players, who played the game each day and even played for leader boards, no wonder they will have a clear idea of balance, now we can't a single mod or tester playing the game... result is clear.




The berserker killer -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/16/2015 9:50:27)

At least they have 1k players online. As for the rest.. don't you get that the main difference is that players who have played those games and eventually took a leave of absence are happy. They feel content that they have "beat" the game because those are story based/single player games with have level caps you know, and after you reach those level caps people are content. After you achieve some sort of "completion" then players become satisfied. Players have become satisfied with their work in that game.

With all due respect, saying that FLash itself is a dead platform is the equivalent of placing the blame on someone else. Even if that is true, there still remains the fact that devs have been told time and time again what we want from what we don't want and it's obvious. We want PVP in a PVP based game. Wer're not saying you can't make your weapons but do you even realize that the topic of weapons wouldn't have even been a problem if they all had different stats?

@Machaar: That was rude. I barely said anything directly to you. Earn your place kid




Lord Machaar -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/16/2015 10:00:47)

It's funny when you say we have same opportunity, no it's not my friend. I'm sure you started playing to rank up soon after they launched ranks, I'm sure you didn't face a rank 60 when you took your way up. You had the ability to mix between NPCing and PVPing. Sadly it's not the case, neither for returning vets or new players.
And don't tell me, we have same opportunity because we both can NPCs, because I don't think NPCing should be even in a PVP game. And I frankly think they should change the logo from PVP to PVP/PVNPC .




The berserker killer -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/16/2015 10:03:24)

Yep, got to rank 40, took a 8 month break, came back and got to 90 in 2 months. Rise and grind. And I got to 80 before I even passed 1000 npc wins. Awkward.

Are you not contradicting yourself there?

If you would like to continue this then please feel free to pm me. I would like for this thread to stay open.





Lord Machaar -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/16/2015 10:07:00)

quote:

I'm sure you started playing to rank up soon after they launched ranks, I'm sure you didn't face a rank 60 when you took your way up. You had the ability to mix between NPCing and PVPing. Sadly it's not the case, neither for returning vets or new players.


That's what I said in my last post. I don't contradict with myself because I do know what I say and based on what I say it., you didn't have to NPC when ranking system was introduced because you didn't meet high ranks while your way up. And I don't think you had only 1k NPCs at rank 80, because even when you ranked up and there were no high rank players, you had diffculties.




The berserker killer -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/16/2015 10:09:19)

It's a pvp game. Diifficulties are expected.




Lord Machaar -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/16/2015 10:12:04)

And once again, I highlight what I said earlier, there is a thin line between something difficult and something imbalanced. For more details come back to my earlier replies.

There is no wonder why a level 30 never meets a level 40. It's not because level 30 is not experienced, or it is just difficult, the reason is level 40 has access to more skill points and level up stats, same thing with ranking system, just this time , player base doesn't allow devs to make ranges in ranks also e.g (rank 1 to 30) and (30 to 60), and we will have fair battles between players who have slightly same access to legendary points.




The berserker killer -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/16/2015 10:13:30)

quote:

If you would like to continue this then please feel free to pm me. I would like for this thread to stay open.




Lord Machaar -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/16/2015 10:17:15)

This post will remain open since we are talking about it and not about something else, this discussion just treats more closely why ED is losing players. If I wanted to insult you I will make sure to PM you.




The berserker killer -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/16/2015 10:21:03)

ok...

quote:

Then players, kids, start coming, complaining about something being too hard because they don't want to put the work in, start getting jealous because other players (adults) had time to rank up faster and level up faster than others or have the money to buy promo packages, and these same kids start looking for shortcuts instead of taking the long and grinding road that other players have taken


That's all I have to say.




Lord Machaar -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/16/2015 10:26:04)

Haha it's funny when you tell me that's doing 100 NPCs each day for 2 years is something hard. Only goats follow the path, fighting same NPC, doing same moves, there is nothing hard about it whatsoever, if it's the case, then I will hire a programmer to make a robot who does this for me, since it's a repititive work. It's no wonder why they give machines easy and repititive work, but I see that some ED players turned into robots, I have no problem with that, but the problem is with PVP, if it was balanced enough for players to favorite over NPCs, we would see different results.




The berserker killer -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/16/2015 10:27:19)

Sorry you feel that way.




Lord Machaar -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/16/2015 10:49:54)

Yeah, that's what you say when run out of arguments.




One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/16/2015 11:41:04)

quote:

With all due respect, saying that FLash itself is a dead platform is the equivalent of placing the blame on someone else. Even if that is true, there still remains the fact that devs have been told time and time again what we want from what we don't want and it's obvious. We want PVP in a PVP based game. Wer're not saying you can't make your weapons but do you even realize that the topic of weapons wouldn't have even been a problem if they all had different stats?


This is only here so I can break it apart and you know what the original looks like.

quote:

With all due respect, saying that FLash itself is a dead platform is the equivalent of placing the blame on someone else.

But is it? The PS2 and Xbox are dead platforms and did you see long term development for those platforms after it died? Not really dev's moved away from that platform to a different platform like PS3 and Xbox 360. To make this a more computer based argument flash is two things an engine, Flash itself, and a code language, AS3.0 or 2.0 depending on which AE game you look at. The engine of Flash is not meant for games of this scale and if you go mining some of the DN's for both ED and AQW you will see stories of troubles caused by this engine and there is a story in there of Adobe being impressed with what AE accomplished given their limitations. These limitations along with the fact that Flash is now effectively dead make more powerful engines like Unreal and Unity a much better choice and frankly they were probably a better choice for al\while now depending on what you were trying to make. As for languages I only learned Java and am learning C++ so I couldn't tell you the differences between AS and C++ aside from the Dev's have been using AS so long they will most likely have to untrain themselves to learn the proper nuances of C++.

quote:

Even if that is true

The industry is leaving Flash behind for HTML5 so while flash isn't dead yet it is in-fact dying

quote:

there still remains the fact that devs have been told time and time again what we want from what we don't want and it's obvious.We want PVP in a PVP based game.

The response to everything when it comes to want vs what is released

quote:

Wer're not saying you can't make your weapons but do you even realize that the topic of weapons wouldn't have even been a problem if they all had different stats?

Then the topic would be why do the weapons have these stats? Whenever a new batch of weapons was released in the old days I would look at it and go why do the weapons favor the build that is currently OP are they trying to farther ruin balance? Or why does this weapon have these stats that offer no advantage over existing weapons? OR they don't support any usable builds for that class better ignore them. Now we are jut down to well they don't have a core better ignore them or I'll grab one because I like how it looks but I'll never use it




Squrwogrona -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/17/2015 5:21:50)

@OWA

So basically AE accomplished with flash more than Adobe thought possible? Maybe AE could buy IP from Adobe then. Seems as likely as converting current games to a new format anyway.

I gathered that Omega is mainly about running ED based on a newer flash, so how are devs feeling about this "flash-is-dead" thing?




One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/17/2015 10:46:18)

@Squrwogrona Adobe is still making money on Flash so I doubt they would be letting it go any time soon. As for Omega I gathered that Omega was to fix a lot of back end problems players would never notice that would allow the game to expand to the fullest of Titan and Rabble's programming abilities. And for the team's feelings everyone seems excited to learn a new engine that even if Flash was to be continued Unity is the stronger product for the future of AE.


On a personal note in an ideal world they would convert the older games that are still being worked on into Unity even if it meant putting out a DN saying, Updates are being paused while we rebuild the game in Unity. It will take X length of time and we will get you posted as we bring the game to life once more." That said I understand X length of time will be pretty damaging to the player base of that game so I could see why that most likely will not happen




Squrwogrona -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/17/2015 14:02:31)

@OWA

Thanks for your input. Good to know that Titan and co. can now use their gizmo to the fullest potential.




dfo99 -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/18/2015 1:26:10)

the flash is not the problem. And here is a more clear example from what i am talking about.

here is a screenshot from epic duel online players now
http://i.imgur.com/T4xYbH8.jpg

and here is a screenshot of online players taked in same time from a flash kongregate game which i play actually called the king of towers, a multiplayer rpg/tower defense game, with gold and diamonds equivalent to credits and varium like epic duel.
http://i.imgur.com/VmV1oCI.jpg

of course epic duel have average more players than 196 and the kongregate probably is bigger than AE, but how to explain how other flash game released in 2014-08-17, being a poorly animated rip-off from kingdom rush, with the players complaing constantly from tons of bugs, glicths, screen freezes, and really alot of load freezes (especially at the classic 100%), and this problems forcing the players play in 2 browsers because in the google chrome there is alot of bugs but the game runs without lag, and in the others browsers the game runs without bugs but with lag, so if you need play the game you use the google chrome, if you need play the rpg part of the game you need use the others browsers.

in my opnion, both could have far more players, but both games have some several problems which made even the people who want play the game leave. the king of towers problems are obvious and clear, but where is the epic duel problems?

for me, the censorship and the mutes is a big but completly ignored problem, the kongregate games for example have almost no censorship and unlike epic duel, i never see nobody complaing about be muted or about the censorship, the players can mute who they want and there is only a minimal anti-spam system. even this forum have same censorship, but at least the message appear with asterisks unlike ed where all message is blocked (this is extremly annoying)

the certain about the fact which trade system or even bets will never be implemented also is a big problem, a match where you can win or lose 20k or even 100k, 1m etc.. of credits for exemple, instead the 16 credits (37-21, the value which you can win or lose actually in all 1v1 matches) could give a great reason to play the games, the same reason of why the people play runescape for example, where you can win or lose alot of gold if you win or lose, but the players could flee of the battles. but nightwraith instead says that will someday try implement it, he says that this will never be implemented.

i am a person who don't have played many games, please show the potential of epic duel which was not implemented/ignored or others problems.




The berserker killer -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/18/2015 18:07:06)

^ please show the full potential of epic duel. Well said




Battle Elf -> RE: epic duel vs others browser games (3/18/2015 19:11:43)

I'm stepping out of my Archknight shoes for a little bit since I find this thread so interesting.

*ahem*

I can't speak on behalf of other games, but I can confirm that Flash games have seen a decrease in popularity in recent years. Saying that Flash is still thriving due to certain browser games having thousands of players is a flawed concept; all this really means is the player base was once much larger (I'm sure there are a few rare exceptions). The mobile market has exploded in recent years and as a result, fewer and fewer gamers are playing browser games. Complex suggestions (likes tournaments) that can't be implemented in flash, or would be too time consuming, are part of the reason AE is transitioning to Unity!

While this thread isn't purely EpicDuel related, I think it's an interesting look into the gaming industry. I'll support this thread, but please refrain from any flaming or I'll have to lock it.

Thanks,
Battle Elf
ED GD Archknight




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