RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (Full Version)

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dante550 -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/28/2015 14:51:22)

can't wait my lvl 20 drakath[:D]

during my levelling ! XD



Vestrova -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/28/2015 15:04:18)

just got to 19 with bandit drakath, almost there! :3


got him! :D and jeez, is he OP. everythings cheap, and powerful.



Gorillo Titan -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/30/2015 9:53:35)

Chaos drakath weakness is the fact it takes time for him to setup HOT and DOT are good but when you have no defense and most of your card can' really be used right away you can be killed in a quick fight.



Elite Tuga -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/30/2015 12:28:00)

Yes to the above. My Grimlord at level 10 beat Chaos Drakath at level 9 despite second turn, so it does prove that Chaos Drakath really isn't that overpowered after all, as it can be countered with Counter Attacks/Void Reflections along with DoT's/Defends or finishing him in a flash with Energy or Fire, especially.

Regen nether the less still should cost around 6-8 energy just to make sure balance is there, incase Regen ever is implemented for (CC) Custom Cards.



Gorillo Titan -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/30/2015 12:30:57)

regen being about 5 - 6 energy would be pretty good since it takes 3 turns to pass greater heal which is two turns and your done and has that whole you can't see it till its being done glitch. [:@]


Also I think chaos drakath counter is glitched my counter was hit and the damage went through the enemies shields and hit them instead of the shield.


I don't think drakath deck should be changed it works pretty well and it goes with how powerful he is as a character since none of the actual character in OS could beat him in a real fight.


Also I wish drakath was a npc who sold chaos character in a special location perhaps turning one of the castles into a chaos castle or something along those lines?

One of the NPC you have to capture something first to unlock maybe the eyeball? lol





Has anyone else noticed you can pvp people in different lobbies now?



Elite Tuga -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/30/2015 12:51:19)

quote:

I don't think drakath deck should be changed it works pretty well and it goes with how powerful he is as a character since none of the actual character in OS could beat him in a real fight.

I agree but making Regen a bit more pricey is good just to avoid players using it 3 - 5 times per draw, especially if it's CC obtainable. 7 energy sounds perfect to avoid crazy health spamming.


quote:

Also I wish drakath was a npc who sold chaos character in a special location perhaps turning one of the castles into a chaos castle or something along those lines?

One of the NPC you have to capture something first to unlock maybe the eyeball? lol



Good ideas Titan, I like it when you come up with refreshing ideas this is something similar I want to see also. Maybe a Drakath Npc within a Solace in the 'South Lake Castle Area' Grid 4 and 5 - O. Flying Eyeball or an Artifact acquired could unlock Drakath's shop and we could have characters cost from 50,000 to 250,000 Gold & others SG. This would be good to entice players to PvP or Farm with more reason so they could buy these Chao-rrupted souls as characters.



Gorillo Titan -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/30/2015 12:54:54)

Chaos drakath also makes me look forward to 2 vs 2 duels me using chaos drakath and someone using the eyeball would be pretty funny IMO.



UnderSoul -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/30/2015 14:37:32)

2vs2 battles would be epic. Who knows, I might even have a chance at beating someone then!



Gorillo Titan -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/30/2015 14:44:10)

So its pretty safe to say that we won't be getting a release this Friday right? Since chaos CC might be added next CC rotation in two weeks.



The Jop -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/30/2015 16:03:32)

Why do people keep saying that? It doesn't matter how powerful the character is plotwise, since it's a PvP game it has to be balanced so some players can't just curbstomp the rest of them.



Gorillo Titan -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/30/2015 16:06:52)

It needs to make sense. pvp or not making a random character stronger than a character that has proven to people powerful would be dumb. How would people feel if they made seppy the weakest character in game?



On another note anyone know the story of wolfwing wasn't he born a werepire?



The Jop -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/30/2015 16:22:55)

It doesn't matter, if it's in-game it has to be balanced. Not weak, but all the elements should be about even. Especially since the cards Drakath has are chaos cards that future chaos characters are going to have no matter how powerful the plot says they are.

Wolfwing was a human who was bitten by both an Alpha Werewolf and Safiria in a short time in Darkovia, so he took on both vampire and werewolf powers.



Gorillo Titan -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/30/2015 16:35:34)

wolfwing might have 4 forms then.

Most of the weak stuff will be card limited we also have no idea what is rank limited yet for all we know renew chaos flux could be limited like shadowfire only being on shadow legendries.



Ninjaty -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/30/2015 18:04:12)

quote:

Why do people keep saying that? It doesn't matter how powerful the character is plotwise, since it's a PvP game it has to be balanced so some players can't just curbstomp the rest of them.

If we can't have Drakath in the game with a power that does his character justice, then we may as well question whether or not he should even be in the game at all.

Drakath is a force to be reckoned with, but he is not unbeatable. His power may seem a bit much at the moment, but that can easily be fixed with the release of new characters and cards. I think back to how people said Greater Heal was OP, and now it's just another card. As soon as someone finds a reliable strategy to beat Drakath and new characters come out, he won't seem OP anymore.

What seems OP today may just be an indication of what future power can be, and should therefore not be compared to the current or past standards before we know for sure.



In order for Drakath to belong in OS as his chaotic self, he should be one of the very first, if not THE first character anyone should think of, if they are asked to name a powerful character in the game. If he is not one of the immediate choices, then I would dare say that something has gone wrong during his implementation.



Elite Tuga -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/30/2015 18:18:33)

quote:

If we can't have Drakath in the game with a power that does his character justice, then we may as well question whether or not he should even be in the game at all.

Drakath is a force to be reckoned with, but he is not unbeatable. His power may seem a bit much at the moment, but that can easily be fixed with the release of new characters and cards. I think back to how people said Greater Heal was OP, and now it's just another card. As soon as someone finds a reliable strategy to beat Drakath and new characters come out, he won't seem OP anymore.

What seems OP today may just be an indication of what future power can be, and should therefore not be compared to the current or past standards before we know for sure.


LOL, I love your response, Mr. Moglin. [:D] I agree with the above, although I feel bad for free players like 'The Jop' and I hope free players do get awesome characters too, only time will tell.

Btw, I beat GT's Chaos Drakath level 9 with Grimlord level 10 earlier and all I had was a Neutral 525, so I totally agree with the above statement, it's only a matter of time to see C.Drakath counter-able. He's beatable as of now let alone if he gets nerfed. I can see Chaos Drakath becoming mediocre when we get loads more Chaos characters, especially when Chaos decks in the future get given a Neutrlise, Energize or Fresh Start. :V





The Jop -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/30/2015 18:22:09)

It's a PvP game, meaning every character should be balanced so one character doesn't have a huge advantage over others. I don't know how many times I can say the same thing: the name of the character does not determine how powerful it should be. Drakath's cards are going to be parts of future chaos characters so they'll be just about as broken/overpowered. And the fact is he is currently more powerful than every other character just in terms of how much power he gets per point of energy. I don't know how much you actually play the game, but balance is more important than keeping a powerful character as powerful as plots from a different game say he should be. If he was actually that powerful he'd just instantly kill his enemy with a soul crush or two meteors, so your argument that he is supposed to be as powerful as he is in AQW is invalid.

I don't know how many people said Greater Heal was overpowered, but compare it to Regen, which heals 600 more health for 2 less energy. Seems fair to you?

Beatable does not equal balanced. I'm sure plenty of characters can beat a low leveled Chaos Drakath before he actually sets up shields and heals, but that does not mean he's a balanced character. Most of his cards are just powerful cards from other elements that just straight up cost less energy.



Ninjaty -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/30/2015 18:33:17)

@above: You seem to have taken some of my statements out of context, so let me try again.

In regards to the name dictating the power of the character, that has already been proven incorrect. Dragons are meant to be fearful creatures, and they have more powerful attack cards than your average character. Drakath is meant to be more powerful than Dragons, and as such, has more advantages than even they do.

As for the balance, ANYTHING can be balanced, even a card that declares automatic victory could be balanced. Just because something seems powerful today, doesn't mean it won't be considered average or weak later on. Back when I started playing, if you had a few poisons in your deck, your opponent may as well forfeit. Back when Greater Heal was released, it was considered OP as well. And now Drakath is considered as such.

My point is, what is considered overpowered changes over time. Today, we throw old OP things around like they are nothing. Just because something is immensely powerful today doesn't mean it should be nerfed, it merely means that something could potentially be released to even the playing field a little.


Drakath may simply be the first in the line of a new kind of power to come to OS. Power creeping is a natural thing to happen in competitive games, so your argument that this is a PvP game actually speaks for Drakath's current power, as that's just a natural progression of having to be constantly innovative.

Keep in mind that we still only have the first series of each CC element. For all we know, the next series of each element could introduce cards that today would be impossible to deal with. That doesn't mean they're OP, but again, just signifies a new level of power becoming accessible.



The Jop -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/30/2015 18:36:13)

It's not balanced now, so it should be changed, because it's affecting the game negatively currently. The only way it would be balanced is if they just reduced energy costs for other elements so chaos wouldn't just be cheaper versions of powerful cards. How would you balance a card that grants instant victory...and how do you compare that to having poisons in your deck?

And that thing about dragons having stronger attack cards, I do think that's fairly stupid, as well as how water is clearly the worst element. The goal of the game should be creating balance, with different elements and characters having their own strengths and weaknesses, not introducing new, overpowered cards. So what you're saying is that characters will just become obsolete as time goes by because of power creep?



Ninjaty -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/30/2015 18:41:38)

Again, just because it is not balanced the second it's released, doesn't mean it should be nerfed. Instead, give them time to release characters or cards that can stand up to it.

As for the instant win card, I actually mentioned that earlier. Here are four examples of how it could be balanced:

1. Give it an insanely high and/or specific cost.
2. Give it an insanely specific set of activation circumstances.
3. Allow it to be absolutely free or have a minor cost, while granting ways to counter it to the opponent.
4. Allow all other players to obtain a card to counter a winning card (either negating or turning it around), when a player obtains the instant win card.



The Jop -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/30/2015 18:43:04)

That just means that over 300 characters that were released before would be obsolete, which is not positive or the way the game should go.



Ninjaty -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/30/2015 18:45:24)

Not necessarily. Like I said, the balance could also come from new cards being released, or even new cards being retroactively added to older characters.



The Jop -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/30/2015 18:49:43)

I doubt they would add cards to old characters; they've already proven they don't care much about that by leaving all the characters from Beta the same though they're no longer very good. And if they add new cards to new characters instead, that's not balance but power creep that leaves old characters in the dust.



Ninjaty -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/30/2015 18:54:13)

I'm actually glad that they leave alpha characters as they were, as that allows the feeling of a good old alpha deck to remain. That's also why I never evolved my Skexis Fiend; I just love it's deck too much to give it up.

One thing I have noticed though, is that you keep assuming that new cards means new characters, but what about new CC cards? After all, the current CC environment only has 1 series for each element (save for Chaos), but those very names also suggests that more series will be added eventually.

I don't want the balance to die either, but I do want justice done to the character, which I think there currently is. The way I see it, a single Renew in it's current configuration is completely fine, two is what makes it overkill. The rest of his deck, while strong, just appears so incredibly powerful because it is new. Once people get used to fighting that kind of power, they will greatly develop their skills and instincts as PvP'ers.



The Jop -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/30/2015 19:01:22)

Balance is more important than doing justice to a character really. Maybe if they made Drakath an A.I. he could be absurdly powerful, like they do with boss characters, but his playable deck shouldn't be that powerful.

CC isn't really balancing anything either, since I've found only paying players have a lot or all of it. I've played Oversoul regularly since beta and I've only completed the Energy Series even though I've spent well over 1 million gold on CC (That may not seem like a lot to some players, but that's without X-Boosts). Just in terms of numbers, renew is completely broken, so I don't see the point of talking about developing skills to adapt. No amount of skill is going to counteract healing a huge amount of health and doing a lot of damage for a lot cost, since you have to work with the weaker cards that you have.



Gorillo Titan -> RE: =OS= Design Notes March 27th, 2015: Drakath's Final Form - Chaos Drakath! (3/30/2015 19:45:10)

@the jop it's a pvp game it's all matter of luck.

Not everything is going to stay useful forever if you want a game like that play one that never gets anything new.

Playing a game with only old stuff is boring and you can't make everyone happen.


Free players seem to not realize that they aren't gonna be happy all the time.



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