RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (Full Version)

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Veya -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (11/13/2016 18:32:52)

Riftwalker is the Warrior equivalent though, they aren't supposed to do anything fancy, they are supposed to beat things with a stick and be very good at beating things with a stick, the other two are way more fancy about how they fight, specially Ascendent, which is the mage equivalent.

Look at the plus side, at least Riftwalker gets a closed shirt instead of the awful open shirt Cryptic and Ascended get.



Sirix -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (11/13/2016 18:35:28)

@Veya How dare you. My Ascendant looks great shirtless.
Unless the shirt is different for the other gender.



David the Wanderer -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (11/13/2016 18:37:46)

It's not exactly a good tactical choice, to charge into battle bare-chested. :P



Veya -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (11/13/2016 19:05:07)

The big issue to me is that it looks really off, all 3 Atelean base classes have really dense designs, so the shirtlessness doesn't really fit, it looks like they were full outfits at some point and they just ripped off the hole on the chest for the sake of showing their chests.

Compare to Pyromancer, which has a really light outfit with some jewery spread around, so the toga-like half-shirtlessness works much better.



Shiny_Underpants -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (11/13/2016 22:09:42)

I personally think Riftwalker's animations are amazing. I've always had a thing for realistic movement, and the way Riftwalker leaps around.. *eyes sparkle*

Somehow, the female Ascendent and Cryptic armours bare torsos don't seem particularly out of place. It may be because there is simply less exposed area, or just that I'm used to seeing clothing designed for an extremely wide range of movement in the torso.
But you would think that of all the classes, it'd be Riftwalker that needed the extra freedom to move...



RusticMetal -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (11/13/2016 23:11:35)

Leave my shirtless heroes alone!



Veya -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (11/14/2016 2:34:24)

The problem is that Atelean classes can't even be argued to "allow freedom of movement", Ascendant has that weird metal-looking thing on the back that probably makes your movement really rigid, and the Cryptic armor looks extremelly top-heavy with the neck covering thing, to top it off, both of those classes have entirely covered backs, which makes the bare chests look really awkward to me, you aren't even shirtless, you deliberately have a hole on your shirt to show off your chest.



Starstruck -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (11/14/2016 5:06:30)

I like the design. :)

Although the lack of nipples is very suspicious....



LigerBeard -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (11/16/2016 12:55:39)

I just got the GPS 2.0( I wanted to see what it was like) and I personally love it!!

Even though it isn't that powerful, there's something oddly satisfying about using it!



Shiny_Underpants -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (11/16/2016 20:23:38)

quote:

~original: @Veya
The problem is that Atelean classes can't even be argued to "allow freedom of movement"

I actually agree there. I'm just used to seeing costumes with bared torsos, so it doesn't appear unusual to me.
It may be that for Cryptic, for example, the torso is bare to prevent anything getting caught on the floatey daggers. I tried

The thing is, when trying to design something that appears totally alien, there needs to be something unusual. And for graphical formats like DF, small details like thumb holes in cardigans aren't going to be particularly apparent. So, since everything practical has been tried, and does not look remotely alien, we're left with something impractical; a gaping hole. It's almost as if the Ascendents/Cryptics want scars to show off

But I think what's really alien is that the Atalean males have nipples to show off; thus, they show them off, even if it seems impractical to the nippleless men of LORE.
But they will never understand the pride of... I'll just tail off here



Solanaceae -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (11/16/2016 20:37:39)

GPS is a simple and surprisingly tanky class. The normal damage rotation is something along the lines of Blind -> Scatter Shot x 4 -> Blind -> etc., which does pretty decent damage but nothing too special (~260% per turn). It has a pretty strong HP/MP regen (Biohazard heals 5% MP per turn for 5 turns) too. Unfortunately, it has pretty much no other good skills (not even the DoTs), and Scatter Shot's +Crit becomes relatively less effective as you level up and get a higher chance to crit normally.



Baron Dante -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (11/16/2016 21:09:49)

@Epic Durian:
I know I've mentioned this before, but I really feel a lot of people write GPS off as a weak class since it lacks offensive options, and most of it's skills are bad.
But the few skills it has is everything it needs.
Cycling Blind to Scatter Shots is all you really do, unless you need HP or MP healing.
But here's the thing. Outside of stuns and other rare gimmicks monsters may have, it will consistently have -50 Bonus on a single enemy. If you work to maximise the relevant M/P/M defense for a fight, there's really no threat to you at any time.
Nanobots might be one of the, if not the best healing skill (Not including Paladin/DeathKnight passive healing) in the game. You get a 40% heal every 10 turns, and since it's a 10% DoT over multiple turns, you can get more out of it without having to always wait to hit below 60% health. The mana regen suffices for GPS, as it's not mana intensive at all.
Special mention to the fact that since the Mana Regen also goes off of a DoT, it can totally beat Mysterious G on whatever difficulty settings, which is not something I'd say many classes can do. That kind of indicates that it can beat mana drainers and stunners. (at least if they don't do that without hitting)
It's one big issue is healing bosses.

Now, the problem with the class, of course, is that it has 4 skills you use. It's fairly slow, and that honestly makes it really boring.
So, is the issue really that it's not strong, or is the issue that it's not FUN?
Because I feel it's tools put it on par with most other DC/Tier 3 classes, possibly even among the better ones.



Solanaceae -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (11/16/2016 21:40:07)

I tested GPS in-game just now, and the HoT is actually 30%. The turn on which you use the skill doesn't heal you at all. It works sorta like Cryptic's Illusionary Veil. As such, GPS's healing per skill is lowered to 30% with a 10 turn CD, not to mention it doesn't provide any immediate healing. That usually doesn't matter if you play your cards right, but it could be an issue if you were at critical health and ran out of potions.

I agree with you completely that GPS provides a perfectly valid and effective way of playing the game, however boring and tedious it might be. However, enemies in recent quests have relatively high Bonus (I think 16 at level 80 in the recent Mogloween quests), reducing the blind's effectiveness. GPS also lacks any sort of reliable defense against multiple enemies besides just eating damage and healing it back.

I'm not sure what you mean about Bio's mana HoT beating out Mysterious G. Regardless of your current mana, getting hit by his mana-sap stuns you for 3 turns. The following turn, you'd regen some mana, but he'd have free rein to just spam the sap again.

One more point, though I don't know how relevant it is: SnugglePanda seems to take GPS's main benefits and amplifies them, as well as adding in a slew of other goodies like a fancy nuke, a DoT, a stronger blind that comes with an equally strong weaken effect, and significant self-boosts. Since it costs a ton of money to get, though, it's pretty exclusive. Regardless, both are classified as Tier 3, so I think that GPS is pretty soundly outclassed in defensive ability as long as something like SnugglePanda is a thing.



Baron Dante -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (11/16/2016 22:31:18)

Indeed it seems the HoT is only 30%.

That's the thing with Mysterious G though, because you keep gaining mana every turn for a while, you actually have a better shot at actually having mana after the stun. Having the consistent blind and a good heal both help there, and the mana works off pretty well.

Now, I agree SnugglePanda largely outclasses GPS, but I do have a few points here:
Firstly, it's heals are weaker, which I'd say is fairly important in terms of survivability (Though SnugglePanda has other tricks in it's sleeve for this)
Secondly, I think SnugglePanda might be the best Tier 3 class, by a fair margin. It has some really dumb strategies behind it, and one day I'll be able to really demonstrate them. One day. Anyways, my point is, I'm not sure it should be Tier 3.



Solanaceae -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (11/16/2016 22:53:46)

Although the heal is lower than GPS, the enemy is always either debuffed by the -60 Boost or shielded against/stunned, effectively giving you 250% of your current HP (1 / 0.4). The heal would then become 2.5x as effective in most cases, except against multiple enemies and/or those that use DoTs, so stuff like Phoenix Edgeworth would probably be too much for SP. Even so, I agree that it's an insanely good class, though nobody seems to acknowledge its existence. It's got pretty much everything you could want in a class. Besides a Trip.

I just realized this, but you could also stack Adorable Pandah with Sir Leon's loopable -20 Boost to get -80 Boost. Honestly, that sounds completely broken, and I really want to test it now.



Sakurai the Cursed -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (11/17/2016 8:40:16)

quote:

nobody seems to acknowledge its existence

Well, it is an obscure reward for buying an expensive and polarizing hoodie, that's kind of to be expected.



Baron Dante -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (11/17/2016 14:25:16)

Does anyone WANT a trip for a class?
That said, you can't really say they'll always be at -60 boost, as you may not be able to renew it on time, or they have ways to work around it, be it removing the effect, or increasing their own boost.

If I'm right, I can do something really, REALLY dumb with Panda in a few fights, but I suppose I'm lacking the necessary gear to make that happen.
...I should get SP for my two secondary characters too, honestly.

Speaking of Phoenix Edgeworth, I think that fight kind of shows how stupidly good Paladin's passive heal is, seeing how it can, given a lot of patience, and having two separate sets of equipment, outheal him (Even with Hard + Extreme, mind.). I totally forgot that Stan boosts healing when you're below 50%, so with that, it should be even better than relying on Cheshire Twilly's slightly unreliable heals.
I mean, I know it's not JUST the passive heal that's a factor in that fight, but with max stacks, it actually heals more per turn than anything else. Like, compare to say, Greater Heal, which heals 15%, with a cooldown of 14. So used effectively, it'd heal ~1% a turn. Inner Light does what, 3% every turn? In that sense, I guess Seal of Salvation is even better, since it's just a 100% heal every 20 turn, so it's 5%, though you'll rarely get the full effect off of it.

There's a reason Paladin is my go-to class nowadays, beyond flavor relating to The Baron. It has fairly reasonable damage (Hindered against Light resistances, obviously, though thinking in reverse, that's also why it has that damage), and it has some of the best survivability.



ArchNero -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (11/17/2016 15:10:44)

I always knew there is a snugglepanda class, the skills look really dope, I wouldn't mind buying it at some point and trying it out myself.

I thought I was the only one who managed to do the mysterious G on extreme + hard mode challenge, except I managed to do it with Cryptic + NSTB and dedicated healing dragon and Baron did it with snugglepanda.

Paladin is a good class, dunno why I don't use it more often, knowing how much survivability it has. I think its because nowadays anything I usually just change gear to put a lot of resistance into one element so I don't really bother with paladin. Unless in the case of Phoenix Edgeworth I can see why, it works really well in that fight.





T7388 -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (12/28/2016 19:29:04)

I'm looking for a good armor suited for me. I'm a pretty relaxed player, but want something that is good for dealing with both regular mobs and bosses - sort of an in-betweener. I don't mind if it's slow in a boss battle as long as it can hold its own. I have access to:
Archivist; Ascendant; Avatar of Time; ChickenCow (ascended and regular); DeathKnight; DragonLord; Necromancer; Ninja; Paladin; Pirate; Ranger; SoulWeaver/Master SoulWeaver; Technomancer; and Togslayer.

I'm looking into buying a DC armor, or even Guardian.
When suggesting a class please tell/link me the current best builds and items for it (I don't own rares, so current items only please. I do have a Dragon Amulet). I have no issue grinding for an item either.



Solanaceae -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (12/28/2016 21:15:24)

I typed up a post that detailed each and every class, but it started getting too long (and it was too DoT-centric, which doesn't work so well for farming and might not be how you like to play the game). In general, I'd advise you to use Ascendant because of how much of a powerhouse it is, and then Paladin for tougher monsters. Most enemies won't be threatening enough to make you need something even tankier, but DragonLord is a pretty good last resort with its array of defensive options and the huge HP/MP heals.

As for stats and gear, I honestly don't have a clue. I'm pretty lazy, so I dumped my stats into an unoptimized 200 LUK/155 WIS/40 END build. I also use the same gear no matter what:



Emrys -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (12/29/2016 0:45:31)

@T7388 I'd recommend Technomancer as a great inbetween class. Force sword is a nice clean crit move that'll take out most mobs, it has two multis plus a multi stun, debug clears all the enemy's mana which can be very useful for some bosses, and my one of my favorite moves in-game: table, which applies two random elemental weaknesses another very useful skill for more powerful foes



T7388 -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (12/29/2016 1:42:39)

@Emrys
I'll look into builds for it, thank you!

@Epic Durian
You can always PM me that lol I like long explanations! DoT-centric is okay as long as it's complemented by ~average damage from skills. Something that's like ChronoCommander (DoT + damage) rather than Infinity Knight [Pure DoT (since you know AQW :P)]

As for the equipment you linked:

Doomed Dragon Amulet Scythe of Elementals - seems to be rare, it isn't in the Celebration Shops anymore that I can find. DC Item.
Nick's Toasty Cape VIII - DC Item. Seems to be seaonal (frostval based). May be gone by the time I get around to putting DCs onto the account.
Unhallowed DeathKnight Circlet - I have.
Defensive Baltael's Aventail - looks good, seems to modify SoulWeaver's skills if you haven't tested those out.
Unhallowed DeathKnight Amulet (seasonal around June, not rare); else try the Ancient Weapons or Soulforged gear - I have the Amulet, lvl 80. Might be worth comparing to the other two just to see which better complements the build I eventually go with.
Elemental Unity Defender XV - Requires a 5$ purchase of a speciality package. may grab it.
Unhallowed DeathKnight Belt - Also have this.
Shadowheart Bracer - Doesn't seem to gift much stats, but I'll consider it of course.
Stan the ScanOrb - Love the quips he gives, don't have a pet so I'll nab him.



Sakurai the Cursed -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (12/29/2016 8:57:56)

Fyi, there really isn't any switching of items between classes, except in the case of Soulweaver who really has to use Baltael's Aventail because it's their artifact. For the most part, a build is a build and it'll work the same for whichever class you use. Maybe if you have a healing-heavy class you'd want to avoid items with -All and no -Health to compensate, but even then it's not a big deal unless you're trying to work out strategies for Extreme Hard Mode Meltface Boss Challenges or something. For stat builds you may want to invest in more Wis if you're using a particularly mana-hungry class, but personally I find the Wis from items to be more than enough for anything at level 80 and maxed MP potions so I use the same stat build for every class too; maxed Int and the rest in Luk, for full offense. Using Ascendant mostly, I haven't found an Extreme boss that I couldn't beat with that, though some Hard Mode Extreme Bosses can actually survive the insane burst so it doesn't work for all of those. :P

Also, the "Unhallowed DeathKnight Amulet (seasonal around June, not rare); else try the Ancient Weapons or Soulforged gear" is supposed to be "Doomed Dragon Amulet Scythe of Elementals (seasonal around June, not rare); else try the Ancient Weapons or Soulforged gear." The Deathknight Amulet is not rare or seasonal, and the other options listed there are weapons.



Baron Dante -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (12/29/2016 9:31:09)

^I could make an argument at SoulWeaver not wanting to use Baltael's Aventail, depending on how you use the class. Soul Aegis isn't directly a buff, but merely a change. It increases the duration of both the cooldown and the defenses by the same amount. Now yes, this means you'll spend less turns having to use the defensive skill overall, but you don't have the same liberties of deciding when to use it, in case of bosses that announce hard hits beforehand and such. You might also be sacrificing some stats over using a better helm. (Even though the defensive variant is really good) Might come to play if you only use SoulSynch for the Boost, and don't use Valour Impact that often.

Now on that note, the better example would be the Shadowclasses with Shadowheart Bracer. Well, obviously the Bracer is the only one in the game anyways, but in the future, that'll still be the best option as it's just a flat-out massive boost to the classes, and actually makes them pretty good.
I wonder how they stack up with some higher-tier classes with it (Since they're the same as the base classes, but thanks to SB, they deal 50% more damage). If nothing else, they barely need any WIS to work properly, which is always a plus.



Solanaceae -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (12/29/2016 9:44:29)

Thanks for catching that typo, Sakurai. I just put in that note on the first thing I saw that had the word "Amulet" in it. [:D]

Technically, Baltael's Aventail makes SW's Aegis better; normally, it gives 2 turns of protection and is usable every 4 turns, but with the artifact it gives 4 turns of protection every 7 turns, a slightly better deal. Even so, it's not super reliable anymore with how much Bonus enemies have, unless you splurge on P/D/B items and reach the 200 cap. ...Does that actually override medium amounts (i.e. something that's not Aisha-level) of Bonus? I know Ash said it did, but it's best to be sure considering how he also said that the game rolls against all of your defenses every hit.

I'm curious whether the Bracer gives you 50% more damage like the Escelense stuff does (+50% weapon damage per hit) or if it multiplies damage by 50%, like Boost.



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