Are you entitled? (Full Version)

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The berserker killer -> Are you entitled? (2/15/2016 14:55:23)

I am creating this thread because I need to know what kind of playerbase I am playing with if I am to:

1) Keep suggesting ideas on forums
2) Continue playing this game

Plus i also believe that it would help other players with their future suggestions. So the main question in this thread is "Are you entitled?".

I mean answer this honestly. Please. Are you entitled? And if you say yes then my next question to you is Do you expect to be entitled? . Based upon your level, the amount of time you put in to play this game on a daily basis, do you expect to be entitled to every new feature that comes out?

I'll be the first to answer this. No, I don't expect to be entitled to every new feature that comes out, yet I suggest things because i am aware im not the only person playing this game. If at least one person can benefit from any of my suggestions (which i ensure will not affect anyone in a negative way), then I am happy. I don't have to partake in any of the new features or suggestions because i am not entitled to them. Just like the legendary bosses, I don't partake in legendary matches because to me they just dont matter. I'm not entitled to those things. If i were entitled they would be given to me. No i am not entitled, I believe i have to earn it .



shadow.bane -> RE: Are you entitled? (2/15/2016 15:02:44)

you want my advice from a fellow player to another ?

as I read this game I noticed that what we say or do is meaningless to the ones reading those post u know who am talking about ! and my answer is I really don't care I only open ed 2 hours a day do npcs and logout , I just want to keep my account cause what if someday they come back to their senses and make everything better ! but I honestly doubt , so what I will tell u is play this game care about no one do what you do and listen to nobody ... cause ur word such as my word and many others are not important to the developers . just play and have fun and mind no one , am been harassed a lot in game but I stay silent why ? cause I don't care what they say xD do like me ... good luck!



8x -> RE: Are you entitled? (2/15/2016 16:08:12)

You are very active in the suggestions section. Personally, I think you might be wasting your time. The devs might read your suggestions, the guest staff most likely reads your suggestions (those of them who are active on forums), but in the end I doubt that any of them would get implemented at this point.

As for the player base, I get the feeling that a decent part of the player base is people who loved ED at one point and just can't leave.



Melissa4Bella -> RE: Are you entitled? (2/15/2016 16:45:37)

Please stick to the topic of the thread and not hijack it away from the original purpose. Otherwise we will have to remove the thread.



lionblades -> RE: Are you entitled? (2/15/2016 18:03:51)

I don't know about others, but I used to expect to be entitled if I payed real money.

When I bought enhancements, I bought it not so it would get taken away.
When I payed for a Black Abyss bot, I bought it without expecting a nerf.
If I class changed, I didn't expect a nerf the next week.

This isn't the "Oh I'm entitled to get gifts because I was here since 1 am", this is real money. I could care less about being entitled on cheevos or legendary boss fights, but spending time grinding for a class change or paying real money to find my class nerfed again WITHOUT GOOD COMPENSATION is seriously disappointing. In one game I played, the devs would give free class changes to x,y, or z class, every time there was a balance change for that x,y, or z class.

With the fickle balance and crap compensation, I couldn't help but feel slightly mad and jilted. Missions were a nice change of pace, and I enjoyed the Lionheart saga (or whatever it was called with the hard boss), but things get very repetitive when so many builds are the same in pvp.

Now I don't care because I don't play lol. And good luck with suggestions, I used to post as much as you do in the balance especially on Juggernaut mode but I don't care anymore.

This game is still fun to play for a short bit, but it gets repetitive really fast since the build variety is broken and many players have left, so fighting the same players over and over and over is zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.




goldslayer1 -> RE: Are you entitled? (2/15/2016 22:48:36)

Anyone whose paid and invested money into this game should feel entitled to have fair treatment and not have the features that they paid for removed (I.e war kills, Tokens, enhancements, etc) without some tangible compensation.

quote:

but spending time grinding for a class change or paying real money to find my class nerfed again WITHOUT GOOD COMPENSATION is seriously disappointing.

This is why I suggested before (Back in Delta) that classes should be purchasable and equip-able like any other item.
The price of the class would obviously be higher than a class change, but once you owned it, you could switch back and forth between any of the classes you owned.



SouL Prisoner -> RE: Are you entitled? (2/16/2016 10:53:36)

Entitled?? lol. The only thing you're entitled as a ED player is to not demand anything and never complain about anything, EVER!



overdead -> RE: Are you entitled? (2/16/2016 13:31:03)

What soul prisoner said. I stopped playing for more than half a year because of the (1) toxic community, (2) rampant botting [though I'm not sure if it's the same today], (3) the choking censorship in the forums which makes china's internet look so free, and (4) lack of staff focus, direction and dedication to the game [this is how I honestly feel.. Well at least at the last time I played].

Entitled? No, sir. The only thing you are entitled to are recycled content and biobeast.

Mechquest will soon have a friend. :3



goldslayer1 -> RE: Are you entitled? (2/16/2016 13:36:18)

quote:

Entitled?? lol. The only thing you're entitled as a ED player is to not demand anything and never complain about anything, EVER!

I disagree.
If players spent hundreds, or even thousands of dollars in the game, they have every right to complain about it if they're being shafted.
I dont have to list the changes made that completely shafted Varium players, I'm sure you know them well already.



ambien -> RE: Are you entitled? (2/17/2016 12:18:37)

we do the varium players gave a lot to the game so it could keep on going. the thing is varium players are now war bomb buyers , the game has lost a lot of big time players, but seems to me the devs since they have put all the time into a app game called bio something, which has fallen short. to what they wanted it to become the ed game suffer more an more. the only way to bring ed back on line is to redo the whole battle systems from top to bottom. which will never happen since artix has this rock now. they will say well 200 players a few bones at them an they will play. the war is coming again who really cares about the war. exile again will win go exile.


see if the team was really wanted epic duel to get better they would listen to us players, an look at the game fall back, we have done this dance for how long with ed. over a year plus days, ed will never be like the good old days, when builds really did work not hack an slash, builds. you know it an l know it. they need a total rebuild of the game from top to bottom like l said.

it is sad when l play other games on line an you hear players saying how bad the game play of epic duel is, blows me away that other gamers know how bad epic duel has gotten. l do stick up for ed when l hear that but please devs listen to us an fix the great game that ed once was.

always the syfy my thoughts on this



goldslayer1 -> RE: Are you entitled? (2/17/2016 12:56:15)

@ambien
Sadly, I doubt they'd re-do ED from scratch all over again due to AE's financial troubles.
They recently laid off a bunch of staff members due to budget cuts (Including Miltonius/Nulgath who was a fan-favorite in AQW and was the main artist of Oversoul) and AQ3D is funded by a Kickstarter and player's "pledging" to the game.

If Bio Beasts becomes a hit or is even remotely successful, that'll only mean they'll start developing more mobile games of that ilk rather than using profits from that game to fund a better ED.

I think AE's mistake was not investing into Browser/Mobile games with cross platform play.
Instead, they waited until 2015 to start releasing mobile games when the market for those is already flooded.
Had they done this back in 2010, the company would probably be in a much better situation right now.

And in the end, the players are affected by this, especially those who invested.



Melissa4Bella -> RE: Are you entitled? (2/17/2016 17:37:05)

I'm about to address an ongoing myth that is perpetrated on these forums all too often and quite thoughtlessly.

quote:

never complain about anything, EVER!'


quote:

(3) the choking censorship in the forums which makes china's internet look so free


Both of these statements and the thoughts that are behind them are false. They've been proven false time and time again. What the real problem is here is that players don't get to throw tantrums, they aren't allowed to be abusive towards anybody else and they aren't allowed to spew out bashing over and over again. That's the real issue here, nothing else.

The forums are simple. You follow the rules. Part of the rules clearly states that criticism is welcomed but must be done in a constructive manner in order to actually be useful. That's it. Pretty simple process, and fair.

No, hateful rhetoric is not allowed.
No, being rude and offensive is not allowed.
No, attacking other players/game staff/forum staff is not allowed.

The rules are there. Players agree to follow the rules when they sign up to use the forums. If a player cannot take a moment or two to sit down, think about how to post their feelings in a meaningful, respectful and constructive manner then there is no room for whining and complaining when their post gets removed.
There is a certain level of personal responsibility expected in a forum that is PG. That's all there is to it, irregardless of how bad anybody wants to throw a tantrum or denigrate somebody else.

So, what has always been suggested is that players take a moment, walk away from the computer for a few minutes if you have to, think before they post. Post in a way that is constructive and helpful. If a player feels that they cannot do so at that particular time then they can wait until such a time that they think they can. That part is up to them. We can lead, post, guide, explain forever but the player has to be willing to do it. If they are not willing, unfortunately there are consequences, just like everything else in life.

Stop blaming others and claiming the falsehood of censorship. It doesn't work.




Lord Machaar -> RE: Are you entitled? (2/17/2016 18:01:56)

quote:

(3) the choking censorship in the forums which makes china's internet look so free


Lmao. North Korea*.

On Topic:
No.
Underdog mode.

@M4B:
The thing is here, players have been constructively criticizing the devs for what, like for the past 6 - 7 years with no apparent effects. The devs tend to "pay attention" when there is chaos and disorder, and "pay less attention" when the person criticizing the game is calm and thoughtful, therefore they think that the first case must be treated immeditaley, even if it's rubbish, while the second one is mehh, doesn't need "much attenetion. I can bring on many examples but well, I think the point is clear.

Sometimes, it is hard really to contain yourself after the huge frustration you feel towards the game after playing it, hence making it near impossible, to come here with a big laugh and flattered to post your suggestions/problems.

Forums with such rules are not made for a game like Epicduel, at least the current Epicduel, and to a community, like the ED community. So I would highly suggest you guys to close it since it only brings troubles to the AKs/Forums staff, that are trying hard to clean the forums for the devs to read beautiful things only. Or otherwise you can leave a thread for "Complimenting The Devs", where basically you thank them and say beautiful things to them, so they feel cheered up and continue with the beautiful work. Yeah, if there was any work.

Reddit would be a great replacement though.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Are you entitled? (2/17/2016 21:02:13)

@Melissa
I'm not going to disagree on the state of the ED forums right now, but when I was around (2010-13) back in the "old days", it certainty felt very censored.
I wouldn't blame the players for that back then, but more so on the changes AE forums made in the head moderator of ED at the time.

I dont want to name specific names here, but this person did not play the game, knew nothing of the game, and in no way related to the players and the things they were criticizing.
On top of that, this person showed no empathy or attempted to understand what it was players were criticizing and ruled the forums with an iron fist. People were getting bans and warnings left and right, and many of them unjustified IMO. And a good portion of the ED forum base did not like the new mod at the time.

The way this person moderated here trickled down to other mods and AKs, and this is why some players have a negative view of mods and AKs.
Any thread that had any sort of criticism or attempt to suggest a fix to a problem was insta-locked when the mod was online. It got to the point when players would purposely wait for this mod to go offline so they could get a word in. Back then there wasn't a "balance" section for the game like there is now, and the suggestion forums were mostly for art and we couldn't have any type of discussions there regarding the suggestion made. So anything that suggested balance changes in the GD was locked because it wasn't a "discussion", this is why I pushed for ED to allow discussion of suggestions which eventually ended up being its own sub-forum for balance. Even though the head mod at the time opted for a single thread where everything balance related was dumped into a single thread. It was a mess and didn't really allow for meaningful discussions of balance suggestions.

It seems like that has changed in this current state, but I dont blame players for thinking what they think about forums or mods if they were around during those days.

And while ED forums seems be a little lighter than before, The AQW forums IMO got much worse.
Rarely are there player posted discussions, its only design note updates, lets party threads, and other tagged stuff.
On top of that, talking of the botting, cheating, and glitching problems in AQW aren't allowed, as if censoring people from talking about it will make the problem go away.

Botting also happens in ED apparently, according to all the complains I've seen after coming back in the past week. But it seems talking about it isn't as frowned upon here as it is in the AQW forums, so props to the ED forums for that.

I'd offer up some solutions to some problems (some of which I've warned them about before Omega came out), but the staff are too busy with Bio Beasts to listen to us here :/

@Lord Machaar
quote:

The thing is here, players have been constructively criticizing the devs for what, like for the past 6 - 7 years with no apparent effects. The devs tend to "pay attention" when there is chaos and disorder

Having been around when the forums got pretty chaotic back in 2012 and 2013, I have to agree with this.
There have been hundreds if not thousands of posts with people constructively criticizing the devs and offering suggestions, ideas, and solutions on how to fix a problem or situation.
They only appeared to take notice when there was a big enough "uproar".
Omega update was the final straw for a lot of people in early 2013 (Myself included), and the result was a ton of people quitting. Evident by the current player count when you log in at any time through out the day, meanwhile in 2012 there was easily 2 servers near full at all hours of the day, and usually all 4 servers used to be used when a new release came out.



Xendran -> RE: Are you entitled? (2/17/2016 21:42:42)

I criticize this game, and often fairly heavily. My posts rarely get deleted.
Be constructive, offer well thought out suggestions and reasoning in your post and you'll be fine.

In the end, i decided the best route would to just work on my own game once I had a suitable team so that's what I'm doing.
If you guys feel the change you want isnt happening, consider keeping that feedback in mind for other games, or perhaps even for a game of your own.
It's also good game design practice in general to design suggestions for other games, even if they don't get implemented. I know that if i hadn't made and refined so many various suggestions for ED over the years, I wouldn't have any of the knowledge that I have now that is allowing me to make the kind of PVP RPG that I want to play.

Having a large bank of ideas in your backlog both gives you a large pool of ideas to choose from for various things, as well as forcing you to get even more creative when coming up with new ones.



Lord Machaar -> RE: Are you entitled? (2/18/2016 1:53:31)

quote:

Botting also happens in ED apparently, according to all the complains I've seen after coming back in the past week. But it seems talking about it isn't as frowned upon here as it is in the AQW forums, so props to the ED forums for that.

God bless you.
Talking about botting is like talking about the regime in North Korea, which is enough to get you executed (Banned).
The issue is there. Devs refuse to fix it by making the game itself unexploitable and not fixing botting in general, since multi-millions gaming companies can not do that, with thousands of staff members (Especially FPS games), so I doubt a team of 4 members would make any difference.

Therefore this problem will remain exploited by cheaters to an unkown date, you do not have the right to say anything about it.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Are you entitled? (2/18/2016 3:33:40)

@Lord Machaar
What's funny is that they didn't have this issue before, when IMO, some things worked better in previous phases than the current ones.
They kind of brought this on themselves.

Devs stopped counting PvE (basically killing that aspect of the game to regular players and putting the onus solely on PvP, which is sorely lacking) and then hid losses. 2 terrible combinations that contradict each other and allowed for these exploits.

I still believe if they had kept NPCs like before where they counted as wins and losses, and you could only do 15 an hour, you wouldn't be having these rampant bots.
And the shock of the Omega update and ensuing bad balance would have been more tolerable to old players had they not completely changed the game for the worse and stripped them of many features that had been here since pretty much day one.



Therril Oreb -> RE: Are you entitled? (2/18/2016 4:50:31)

So, Melissa4Bella gave everyone a clear warning and yet there is no attempt to even get close to following the rules.
Going off-topic, still complaining about the developers or the forum staff when it has been said multiple times how everything works.

1) If you feel like certain actions from the forum staff are unwarranted, you go to the one in charge. If I or Melissa4bella give a warning, you go to SCAKK.
If an Archknight gives a warning, you go to me or Battle Elf. Complaining here on the forums in public has no purpose at all.

2) OneWingedAngel, me, Nightwraith and Char all explained the situation for EpicDuel and it's development cycle.
And yet, I still see people insisting and continuing to blame the developers for not doing as they please.
I have said this before and I say it again, stop the harassment. The developers are working on both EpicDuel and BioBeasts.
Yes, the developers read what is said here and what they don't read is being told to them by either me or Battle Elf.
No we cannot put in everything everyone states here due to many reasons.
If a game company had to put in everything every players suggests, the game would be a mess and be more about quantity than quality.

I am closing this thread now since there is close to nothing on-topic anymore.



Battle Elf -> RE: Are you entitled? (2/18/2016 10:02:49)

Hey everyone, I just wanted to make a couple comments on why we usually don't allow Botting Discussion in the ED GD.

Botting discussion typically results in "but look at player X they clearly bot". Not only do public accusations like this offend other users, it also discourages other players from coming to the Forums and voicing their opinions. Our moderation team, lead by Alley Cat, works hard to track down cheating users. If you have a suspicion that someone is botting, please inform Therril or myself and we will forward the information on.

Additionally, botting discussion can also inform the player base of easy ways to cheat the game. The temptation to bot rises when you see posts talking about "how to fix this easy cheating method". While most players will try and think of solutions, some will see this post and say, "Oh. I'll try that."

There are numerous security features in place to prevent cheating and hacking. Talking about these tools publicly reduces their strength.

However, I do personally believe that discussing in-game security with the most knowledgeable and dedicated players in the game has it's benefits. As long as your suggestions are in the abstract (No we need to fix "haxx0rprogram.exe") , don't target specific players (No we need to ban "haxx0ruser") and are constructive in nature, I don't have a problem with them.

Please do PM a member of the Forum Staff before posting a possibly rule-breaking thread.
We'll either give you the go-ahead or offer suggestions on how to fix your post so it abides within the Forum and Game Rules.



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