Robots balance (Full Version)

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Warmaker04 -> Robots balance (11/14/2016 5:08:44)

This thread will be about the balance of robots. Below are the current stats of every bot in the game :

Name of the bot -> Damage -> Special skill
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assault Bot -> 170 damage -> Reduces 70% of all debuff effects on an ally
Gamma Bot -> 170 damage -> Nuclear-powered assault, dealing 105% damage!
Azrael Borg -> 170 damage -> Reduces 65% of all buff effects on an enemy
Infernal Android -> 170 damage -> Deals 85% base damage, increasing by 5% each round in battle (120% cap)
Pyro Fly -> 170 damage -> Randomly disables one of your target's 3 highest level skills for the rest of the battle
Baby Yeti -> 150 damage -> Disables aux and gun for a short period of time
Warrior Yeti -> 160 damage / Pink Yeti and Omega Yeti -> 170 damage / Golden Yeti -> 180 damage
Botanical Hazard -> 170 damage -> Inflicts 50% of your Robot's damage as poison over 4 turns.
Bio Borg -> 170 damage -> Reflects 50% of melee damage back at your attacker
Bunny Bot -> 170 damage -> Blast the enemy with pastel paint; egg missiles will rain upon the target if they strike
Blood Hawk -> 170 damage -> Destroy the target's armor for 3 turns; removes bonus defenses and prevents use of armor cores
Black Abyss Bot -> 170 damage -> Spit acid on your enemy, lowering their defenses by an increasing amount for 3 turns
Lionhart's Avatar -> 170 damage -> Grants 50% Rage to all allies
Cyber Yeti -> 170 damage -> 100% Block/deflect chance for 2 turns
Kartherax's Despawn -> 170 damage -> Deals 85% damage. Replace target's primary weapon with useless fish for 3 turns.
Monkakazi -> 170 damage -> Deal bonus damage equal to the difference between target's highest and lowest base stat.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For now, my personal opinion is that Assault Bot / Azrael Borg and Lionhart's Avatar / Bio Borg / Bunny Bot / Kartherax Bot need buffs.
Also, Gamma Bot / Infernal Android and Blood Hawk / Black Abyss Bot are very similar and also not balanced enough.

The robots are not the main thing that needs a balance right now but soon, it will. The damage of some bots has to be changed as well as their special skills or even cooldowns. What do you think?





Warmaker04 -> RE: Robots balance (11/16/2016 8:34:03)

Nothing? :o



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: Robots balance (11/16/2016 12:40:33)

We are all holding our breath waiting for the devs to release their balance plan for winter as they are already stated to prevent scope creep they won't be looking at anymore balance suggestions outside of the pinned thread



Front45 -> RE: Robots balance (11/17/2016 12:54:21)

Infernal Android is OP robot, because on Rage is does about 600 damage, which is impossible damage in ED

i think better will be if change 110% instead of 120%. because other robots are ruined, everyone using IA robot. Boring. it's Really OP bot



.Lord Ginger. -> RE: Robots balance (11/17/2016 21:46:16)

IA has been nerfed many times, Its time to buff the other robots to make them more viable than nerf IA. (as well as buff str like we already mentioned in the balance thread).



Warmaker04 -> RE: Robots balance (11/18/2016 9:55:54)

@.Lord Giner.

The Azrael Borg and the Assault Bot need a serious buff. Their special's effects should be at 80-90%. Also, what if one of their attacks didn't put the other on cool down just like in Beta but it would work only for these 2 bots? Perhaps there is no way for that to happen but what do you think?

@Front45

If they nerf the Infernal Bot more, it will just become like the Gamma Bot, except that the special attack of the Infernal Bot can be used only once in battle while you can use Gamma Bot's special every 4 turns. But that is not really unfair, since the Gamma Bot is a really rare bot unlike the Infernal Bot so maybe the Gamma Bot should be a lot better. So at this case, you have a point. The Infernal Bot can be changed even more, but with its special attack usable only once in battle, it won't be that easy. Something has to be done with the Infernal Bot's cool down, I will try to give an example below :

Compare the current infernal bot:

Infernal Bot -> Special : 120% max damage and usable only once in battle

To this version :

Infernal Bot -> Special : 110% max damage (the max damage you suggested) and usable every 6 turns




Mother1 -> RE: Robots balance (11/19/2016 21:59:50)

I remember when those two robots used to have an 80% effect with there abilities. Though at the time their effects where considered OP seeing as at the time buffs and debuffs had more weight to them. However now thanks to being able to be more tanky, certain buffs having immunity, and overall more choices of robots these robots are almost worthless. personally I would love to see my vintage bot get a buff so it could be usable again in the game.



Ojas -> RE: Robots balance (11/20/2016 11:21:26)

The only bot I actually think needs nerfing is the Pyro fly, it ruins whole games in 1 turn.



Warmaker04 -> RE: Robots balance (11/20/2016 13:58:22)

@Mother1

Yeah, my point exactly.

@Ojas

As you know, every single player after lvl 20 has one of their energy gain/steal skills maxed out. The Pyro Fly bot CAN AND WILL ruin battles if it chooses to disable one of their energy gain/steal skills, for example Static Smasher, Battery Backup, Static Grenade, Energy Parasite, etc. Do you know why this does happen? It happens because nowdays all 1vs1 and 2vs2 battles are focused on energy gain and energy steal in order for players to survive. It doesn't happen because the robot itself is op, it is the way everyone battles that makes it op. No one will go in a 1vs1/2vs2 fights without having one of these energy gain/steal skills maxed. This is also one of the reasons why these skills have to be completely changed.

However this thread is for robots, lets not get offtopic



Stonehawk -> RE: Robots balance (11/21/2016 16:13:47)

Pyro fly should disable a skill for 4 turns and be re-usable, so it takes random skills during the same battle, making the opponent have a chance to turn the table if he survives to the effect that makes him so weak (usually disabling the energy controlling skill), while the pyro fly player can analyze the best way to play depending on which skill he disabled at that moment. It's more of a strategic battle and less of a luck-based battle (if disable energy-controlling or another important skill for the rest of the battle = win).



.Lord Ginger. -> RE: Robots balance (11/22/2016 11:32:26)

@Stonehawk- Pyro is already gamebreaking if the skill works, having it reusable special would be undoubtedly broken.


@Warmaker-I know that the specials are weak and they need major buffs. Another sugestion I had was maybe buffing the damage of the robots(such as 210) instead of 170. Also we need to make the buffing skills(energy shield etc.) hurt by the robot. Since the shields are normally perfectly fine at level 1/2, that needs to change. I don't think assault bot will be viable again unless it gives the player a buff which I don't think will happen. Also blockable bots are a reason why I don't use many robots. I used to use the black abyss bot E until they stupidly made the attack blockable.

So I think making robot damage increase(for some reason devs made them all 170 which was a terrible idea) and maybe mega buffing specials that are literally useless will be helpful.



Stonehawk -> RE: Robots balance (11/22/2016 15:32:42)

@Lord Ginger
reusable special means the effect is not forever, so if it takes your best skill, if you live enough you can use it later, unless he is lucky enough to disable the same skill again. And since the special has weaker damage, the user has to choose between trying to disable a skill again with a weaker physical attack or hitting normally with energy. That makes it less gamebreaking in my opinion. Right?



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: Robots balance (11/22/2016 16:41:42)

There are things you can change outside of the bots themselves to increase their power. Like if we made buffs and debuffs a viable move in PvP then that would increase the power of bots that impact those moves. But so long as the moves that the bots change are useless then the bots themselves will be useless



.Lord Ginger. -> RE: Robots balance (11/22/2016 17:33:05)

@OWA- I would take the assault bot if it had about 250 damage.

@StoneHawk- does it re-enable the previously disabled skill and disable a different one?



Mother1 -> RE: Robots balance (11/22/2016 20:52:25)

@ Lord ginger

In a nutshell he is saying that the pyro fly effect should work like consective shot except it would be reusable. In other words the skill it effects goes onto cooldown instead of being removed from the duel.



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: Robots balance (11/22/2016 22:33:28)

@Lord ginger then you aren't taking the bot for its intended use. You are taking the bot due to a very two dimensional gameplay system of do more damage than the enemy to win.

That's what we have fallen into with the current meta, deal more energy damage then deal more physical damage, but ideally we will start addressing that elephant with the winter update



.Lord Ginger. -> RE: Robots balance (11/25/2016 10:11:19)

@OWA- Well if the intended use doesn't work in the current meta, something needs to make it able to be used well in the meta. xD



Mother1 -> RE: Robots balance (11/25/2016 14:03:18)

@ Stonehawk

Unless I get to choose what skill I want to disable with this bot in exchange for not making the effect ever lasting you might as well make way for it to be retired for good. I say this because doing the way you suggested would turn it into a reusable consective shot and how many people actually use this core? Answer few to none because of how unrealiable it is.

When having to deal with possibly not getting the move you want, as well as it putting the wrong move on cooldown the risk of using it far outweigh the benefit. With the pyro fly at least you can possibly shut someone build down when using it. (Advert it is luck based)

So if the bot 'must' get this change, the special should make it so you can choose the move so it can become more tactical in PVP. Though If possible it should still keep the original effect when battling NPC.



Stonehawk -> RE: Robots balance (11/25/2016 19:13:28)

@Lord Ginger

Yes, the skill is disabled for a limited time and the ability can be used again. It doesn't make sense for a robot to have a % chance to ensure a win by locking a skill forever, in my opinion.

@Mother1

quote:

he is saying that the pyro fly effect should work like consective shot except it would be reusable. In other words the skill it effects goes onto cooldown instead of being removed from the duel.


Exactly


quote:

Unless I get to choose what skill I want to disable with this bot in exchange for not making the effect ever lasting you might as well make way for it to be retired for good. I say this because doing the way you suggested would turn it into a reusable consective shot and how many people actually use this core? Answer few to none because of how unrealiable it is.

I don't use this skill core because it can only be used once AND it costs energy. It wouldn't be pyro fly's case.

Choosing the skill is way too OP, people will put on cooldown the best skill (probably energy gaining) repeatedly, leaving no options to the opponent. Plus, I can't imagine how it would work exactly in the system because there isn't any skill even similar to this, where you choose which weapon or skill to hit.

Instead, I still prefer that it stays random and reusable, a free reusable concussive shot. To avoid making it so weak, damage could be 100% just like the energy attack.



.Lord Ginger. -> RE: Robots balance (11/27/2016 21:27:30)

I don't like the whole thing of having a pyro fly in general since it can be gamebreaking. I see that with your new revamp of pyro fly, it will be extremely underpowered. If it has to redisable a move every 3 turns and does 30 damage each time, if it doesn't get the right skill, it's not going to be good. That would for sure kill it, even though it already CAN be OP, even though it's not necessarily.




Mother1 -> RE: Robots balance (11/27/2016 22:32:32)

@Lord Ginger

It isn't even the fault of this bot in general that it can be extremely game breaking if it hits the right move. Originally this bot was way more balanced especially seeing as when it came out all classes had passives which couldn't be shut off. It could stop some builds if it hit the right move but it couldn't cripple them (with the exception of CH who could have their static taken away but back then we also had boosters that could help with this) No if anything it was the passive to active change along with the high dependance of energy (thanks to some of the old passives costing energy as well well as energy being overly mandatory for all)

But to be honest that was why I had suggested that you get to choose which move you wanted in exchange for making said move go to cooldown instead of shutdown for the duel.

This way while it can be powerful and save the person, it can't permanently cripple them seeing as the move will only be on cooldown rather than shutdown. The bot will become more tactical and no longer luck driven meaning that it will actually have a positive non luck based use against your opponents while no longer in many players minds being a 'cheap no skill bot' due to it possibly being able to cripple opponents.



Front45 -> RE: Robots balance (11/28/2016 6:12:59)

Pyro Fly is not problem. sometimes 1 vs 1 I disabled my opponent's static grenade or main energy skill but i lose, because he was high rank. problem is in Infernal Android. just i have one question, why everyone focus 5 build use Infernal Android robot? no one use other robots, they are hidden and there are ton of robots in ED, which are ruined. bad is that if i don't have Infernal android and my opponent has, i lose often. i prefer change to 110% from 120% energy damage. just there are no fun, everyone uses same bot. cyber yeti, blood hawk, azrael's borg, bio borg and etc are useless

I wanna play with different robot, but i lose if i do not have Infernal android on focus 5 build 1 vs 1 and enemy has



Xendran -> RE: Robots balance (11/28/2016 9:32:45)

Even if Pyro Fly was considered balanced (Which it inherently cannot be becuase of how skills work in this game), it's still bad game design either way.

A game designer's goal is to engage players with the mechanics, not give players tools that strip game mechanics away from other players (at complete random chance, as well).



Stonehawk -> RE: Robots balance (11/28/2016 14:56:00)

quote:

I see that with your new revamp of pyro fly, it will be extremely underpowered. If it has to redisable a move every 3 turns and does 30 damage each time, if it doesn't get the right skill, it's not going to be good. That would for sure kill it, even though it already CAN be OP, even though it's not necessarily.


quote:

Instead, I still prefer that it stays random and reusable, a free reusable concussive shot. To avoid making it so weak, damage could be 100% just like the energy attack.


Damage won't be 30 if my suggestion is implemented, unless you're using a build without tech/focus. It would be similar to gamma bot, except it shutdown a skill for 3 turns instead of doing 105% damage. And if the special works the way it is, it's also an unblockable/deflectable attack that disables a skill every 3 turns you used it. Absolutely not underpowered if you know how to use it.

And it's not the only luck-based bot, even infernal android kinda is. If you count on its special to win, you can be deflected and die.

quote:

But to be honest that was why I had suggested that you get to choose which move you wanted in exchange for making said move go to cooldown instead of shutdown for the duel.


That is system-breaking lol. What skill in this game can you CHOOSE an opponent's skill as a TARGET? Also, you will surely prevent opponent to regain energy everytime by counting cooldown, or even prevent him from healing. It would still be OP, now even more. I still prefer my suggestion.

I can't see how a repeatable unblockable concussive shot that deals 100% damage can be underpowered, lol.
I'm even rethinking about changing damage to 100% because of it being unblockable, while even concussive shot is deflectable (another reason why it's underused: deflectable, weaker attack that costs energy and takes a random skill)



Mother1 -> RE: Robots balance (11/28/2016 15:28:51)

@ Stonehawk

It is not the fact that the skill is weak. It is the fact that you are spending energy on something extremely unreliable in a game where the current meta has too much importance on energy. If the core actually let you choose the move you wanted when doing the cool down, then it would work better seeing as at least you won't be gambling with whether or not you would get the move you desired and it would make the core more tactical in battle.

The same could be said of the pyro fly especially if the one positive that comes with the bot (which is shutting down one move that could possibly shut your opponent down) is being removed. With it being the other way you are trading one positive (The ability to possibly shut down your opponent from the start) for another (Being able to put a desired move on cooldown at the right moment) which is just as tactical as using the strike gun, or a core to drain energy at the right time.

Where as turning it into a reusable consective shot would be just removing the only positive this bot has (possibly shutting down your opponent) for an reusable but unrelible cool down core. The pyro fly already has a more negative's than positives going for it, and the positive is based off of luck. I don't know how many times I used the bot only to get a worthless move seeing as it is 1/3 chance you may get what you want. Add the unreliablity consective shot function to replace the original pyro fly core and even it being an energy free version that is reusable won't save it from being underpowered.

You may not use consective shot because it does less damage, and cost energy but most don't use it because it isn't reliable like many other aux core (Advert there are only a handful of these)



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