Juggernaut (Full Version)

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nowras -> Juggernaut (12/3/2016 17:31:34)

Looks like juggernaut is now fixed. I don't lose matches unless I get unlucky so, this fix the developers made in the last update worked.
What's still bad about juggernaut is the waiting time, this is because the juggernaut would need to be the first player in order to start a juggernaut match.
If they would make it like 2v2 where it doesn't matter if the juggernaut is the first or second player, the matching system is going to match players faster
and then, the Juggernaut would be completely fixed.
What do you guys think about this?



Noobatron x3000 -> RE: Juggernaut (12/3/2016 17:46:22)

Kind of hard to take this post seriously, Everyone knows it isn't true .

Juggernauts are still getting slaughtered....lol

And anyone who logs in can see "darkness lord" jugernaut daily leaderboard 4 wins,

7 hours from reset, The fact you only have 4 wins isnt a big enough sample size to give your statement any validity whatsoever.

More importantly the fact your on the leaderboard with 4 wins so close to the reset, Shows juggers aren't doing well at all

Just lol at the troll post.

Out of around 35 juggernaut battles in the last 2 days , on my level 30 bh , 34 were l40 juggernauts , one was a l38 juggernaut, 30 is the lowest level a juggernaut can face

I've won 33/35 games.....And one of the losses my partner ran , I'd say juggernauts are still doing terribly from an experienced players perspective, But don't take my word for it check the daily leaderboards, mostly single figure wins.... No high level juggernauts doing well at all .



SouL Prisoner -> RE: Juggernaut (12/4/2016 1:17:22)

Jugg and 2v2 still pretty unbalanced. Especially jugg. Jugg get's buff and so does the opp's.. what's the difference then?? what's changed? After all this time waiting and this is the fix? Nice. [:@]



nowras -> RE: Juggernaut (12/4/2016 8:17:06)

@Noobatron I have done these 4 wins in less than 25 minutes. There's no time to play juggernaut during gifting, that's why I only did 4 wins. But, I have actually fought two level 35 players and
defeated them easily. The rest of the battles were against at least 1 35 or 34. Comparing this to the past, Juggernaut is fixed because there was no way to defeat two full varium level 34 players in juggernaut which is being an easy task now. Even all the players I fought were like "You're the best Juggernaut I have fought since ages" or "I can't beat this juggernaut". That's of course right because
I don't think any of the top class players have tried juggernaut due to gifting but, when they do, people are going to know that it's not me that I have super powers or much more smarter than others,
it's the update that really fixed juggernaut. The people you fought were probably unskilled or maybe just people who are unfamiliar with juggernaut or aren't using the proper build.
There's only one big disadvantage about Juggernauts though. It's if you get stunned. Stun rises their chance of winning by 50% especially if they do it in the beginning of the match. This would be fixed
easily if Juggernaut mode would reduce the chance of getting stunned by 20% (minimum 5%) so, it's not really a thing.



SouL Prisoner -> RE: Juggernaut (12/4/2016 8:58:27)

^Does 7k+ jugg wins count as "top player?"



Noobatron x3000 -> RE: Juggernaut (12/4/2016 12:24:15)

Then where are all the other l40s on the juggernaut daily board and why am i having absolutely no trouble dealing with them?

I dont believe you and neither will anyone else playing at l40 in juggernaut and getting a larger sample size then 4 wins if thats even possible, People are getting 80 2v2 wins easily in a day yet even the lower levels arent managing that in juggernaut at reset.....

The math doesnt lie , Claiming to be experienced when the facts clearly dispute the claim your making, Makes one question your experience.

Moving on though.



nowras -> RE: Juggernaut (12/4/2016 12:34:06)

@Noobatron Wait until gifting ends and I'll show you that juggernaut is back. Currently, I have exams and there's gifting so, there's no free time for Pvping or playing Juggernaut.

@SoulPrisoner Not necessary. That's because if these 7k juggernaut wins were done in delta, the player would still not be familiar with juggernaut in Omega.
But, if you're talking about yourself then, yea, you're skilled but, you're probably not using the proper build. Use DEX BH or DEX TM and you will see that Juggernaut is really easy. Don't forget to
use Cyber Yeti and Hazmat Suit. Use Cyber Yeti when both of the players you're fighting are going to rage while they are out of energy and the match will be 100% yours.



Noobatron x3000 -> RE: Juggernaut (12/4/2016 12:45:54)

Until you can show me the eladerboards with a single 40 beating 50 wins at reset You have no mathamtical evidence to substantiate your claims

Infact what the current leaderboards are showing nothing has changed at all for l40 juggernauts, That and the fact i am getting above 95%+ against l40 juggernauts..

Furthermore it's looking more and more obvious legendary ranks are going to get fixed in some point in the future..... And the pvp advantage will be changed to something cosmetic, The last 2 major balance updates have seen nerfs to ranks , Not enough yet but their finally heading the right direction, So even if high ranks were doing well in juggernaut which the hard evidence doesnt suggest is the case.

It's a bad reference point as they will be getting fixed soon to balance 1v1 and 2v2.



Noobatron x3000 -> RE: Juggernaut (12/4/2016 13:59:31)


Haz mat suit all you want i'm going to drain you or tell my partner too, then im going to frost shard you , the the second you ragin mana me or my partner will emp you again so the only heal your getting is hazmat lol, Cyber yeti LMFAO i've never had a partner or myself that didnt have enough mana to rage a unblockable/deflectable before rage even if the juggernaut has 2 drains we all hhave enough ways of getting mana back + I'm probably going to force you and watch you get double nuked before you have a chance to react....

Unless your opponents are really bad..... Your the seal being clubbed in juggernaut, Opposed to being the seal clubber as a high ranked player in 1v1 or 2v2.... Still waiting for a l40 to get close to what is possible in position one on the 2v2 board in juggernaut.... 120 is easily doable in 2v2 as a high ranked player....60-90 as a low ranked player, Dpending how much you face to rank 40s with a rank 3 partner , in 2v2....

Most l40 juggernauts at reset are under 10 wins, The best ive seen in the last 12 months was under 25....23 IIRC

And its hard to tell if that was a faction using bots with a basic club on that occasion.



SouL Prisoner -> RE: Juggernaut (12/5/2016 5:57:39)

@Nowras

I really doubt if anything is going to change after the gifting event. Because all the beggars are going to be leaving and the only(mostly) one left will be the 40's and 40's don't fight 40's.

With this balance update one might say we have some hope, but personally i doubt that.. Not exactly a "satisfying" fix or an update, imo.



Lord Zhen -> RE: Juggernaut (12/15/2016 9:41:30)

ADMINS!! remove the jaggernaut in the game if it always comes to a situation we facing.. we are not enjoying being paired with your useless npc on which can only do 30 - 50 damage.. how could we possibly win.. base stats for jaggernaut was nerfed an we playing on 2v2 always get this useless npc's on matches.. what is your purpose here to make everyone buy skullcard and do jugg? guys you should be serious.. in doing missions fighting with these npc are hard why in jugg u make it useless do something about it fast..



Lord Machaar -> RE: Juggernaut (12/15/2016 11:24:13)

^ That's another problem beside the fact that they are encouraging more players to bot juggs. It's killing any chance for the player paired with a NPC versus a jugg. The NPC literally deals 30 damage and receives 300 from a regular attack.

If the devs are willing to turn ED into AQW 2.0, then better change the ED logo on the home-page from Player vs Player online battles to Player vs Environment with occasionally PVP online battles.

Jugg needed a fix, that's true. Players though didn't ask for jugg to become a NPC battle mode. Kills the fun of it.



Mother1 -> RE: Juggernaut (12/15/2016 11:29:15)

@lord Zhen

It has already been stated that the staff won't be removing Juggernaut seeing as this isn't the first time someone has suggested this. This change was made to nerf the wait times in the battle modes due to the decline in activity though I didn't expect them to do this for juggernaut to be honest.



Stonehawk -> RE: Juggernaut (12/15/2016 16:51:08)

1- There should be at least 1 player on both sides to call it a PVP.
2- Instead of adding weak NPCs that already exists and do only hit 30 on the player, they should add bots similar to players, I mean, they should have higher defense and attack and use skills that actually does damage. Not only high health and energy, that's silly.



Alphaeus -> RE: Juggernaut (12/15/2016 19:42:17)

As a Jugg you should always be fighting players. Period.

As a player fighting a Jugg, your teammate should be someone who is actually real. Period.

_____

As for a fix, why not just give Jugg battles pairing priority?

If you take away NPC, Jugg battles will go back to being more difficult (although THAT still needs a fix). Most of the Juggs that cannot fight the harder battles will stop, and you'll go back to having fewer juggs active at any given point in time.

This will balance any priority given to Jugg battles, because there will be fewer people playing that mode anyway.

______________

The idea of a "smart" anti-jugg NPC is nice, but the fact is that you would have to create whole sets of these to mirror the real variations of actual player builds. Otherwise what will happen is people will figure out how the NPC fighters are built, and then easily counter both them and the lower lvl player.

Honestly, I do not want ANY NPCs in my Jugg fights...whether fighting "2v2" against a Jugg, or while being a Jugg myself.



nowras -> RE: Juggernaut (12/15/2016 22:08:53)

I have already thought of some so-simple-to-code ideas that improve the NPCs AI. I'll suggest them in another thread in EpicDuel Balance. Please check it out.



shadow.bane -> RE: Juggernaut (12/16/2016 4:55:02)

^ what do u understand about coding so u assume or be sure it's easy to code or not?



crownthedeadman -> RE: Juggernaut (12/16/2016 5:12:16)

I started with 200 wins and 299 loses (because of bad juggernaut before) and ended up with 265 wins and 299 loses. that just proves how easy it is now and unfair to lower level. the level difference is still ... "ok" at the best but making npc an opponent just makes t a farming thing. The leader board is literally about how many npc fights were won. But it's really hard to fix it with this low player base and half of those are here for gifting.



Lord Machaar -> RE: Juggernaut (12/16/2016 7:01:13)

If devs insist to go on with their short term vision towards the game, then they will do the opposite of what they want to do which is keeping it alive.

Integrating NPCs in jugg battles on the "long term" according to them will make the game sustain and retain players. To me, that's a short term action to delude people into spending money thinking the game is going to prosper in the future.

The repercussions of such move can be seen already (Players dumping other PVP modes), but just to elaborate and give an example of "long term" failures; wars. War rallies to be more specific, who would PVP during war rallies or even during wars to earn war drops? That's an example of how a so called "PVP battlemode" is turned into a NPC battle mode, while still considering it as a PVP battle mode and still giving it all the advantages a regular PVP battle mode gives (All time lbs, rewards,...).

The game is starting to deviate from its origins. Sure devs don't have much options to pick given the playerbase is too low, but I would say let's better close ED before it turns into AQW 2.0.



SouL Prisoner -> RE: Juggernaut (12/16/2016 9:02:28)

Why do you people not get 1 simple thing into your heads. The reason your opp is a NPC is because "NO PLAYERS FOUND!". The game community is dead. And it's best if you kill your hopes along with it. Don't blame dev's, at least not for adding NPCs. Blame them for every thing else, but not this.



Mother1 -> RE: Juggernaut (12/16/2016 11:54:27)

I have to agree with Soul Prisoner on that one. NPC were added as a last resort to speed up wait times seeing as the game always goes for the real players first then if none are found add NPC's to the mix.

It is the same with the level gap thing that was done years ago with trying to find a person of your level first than if none are found going for the lower/higher level player.

Edit:

Also another reason why people are using juggernaut now is because of the 3X EXP curve which in turn made credits even harder to come by due to the fact that they didn't change the credit curve with it. Juggernaut offers more credits than 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 and to be honest with the change to PVP battles juggernaut sadly is the only way you can get enough credits to actually power up your equipment and get cores without being broke.

So it isn't just an easy win thing.



Lord Machaar -> RE: Juggernaut (12/16/2016 13:55:31)

Adding NPCs sure was an obligation since there aren't any players, but does adding easy-to-kill NPCs to juggernaut, with higher rewards than actual PVP battles.

Making juggernauts a NPC battle mode not a PVP battle mode, without actually considering it a NPC battle mode, will
1- Players will neglect other actual PVP battle modes. Waiting times in 1vs1 and 2vs2 were fine, look at them now.
2- During wars, 1vs1 and 2vs2 will be more dead especially at war rallies.
3- Botting. Self-explanatory.
4- Unfair matchups to mid-level players. Getting matched with a so-easy-to-kill NPC wouldn't help you face a level 40 with a huge jugg buff... Mid-level players push 2vs2 for a 2vs2, they do not push it for a jugg battle where they get matched with a NPC that receives 300 damage from a regular attack. This will push even more players to give up on PVP battlemodes and focus on jugg.
And the list goes on and on...

When you give a NPC battle mode more importance than PVP battlemodes, regardless if it is 1vs1 that we are talking about, or 2vs2, or jugg, that won't be a good thing for other PVP battle modes.

I'm not saying that adding NPCs to jugg is a bad thing, adding easy NPCs is the actual problem, plus saying that "AI" was improved, I guess it was improved by 5%. The NPCs can't drain energy or regain energy, heck, I was in a battle where the NPC attacked me directly after I was stunned by lvl 32 player. I'm not sure how they improved these NPCs.



shadow.bane -> RE: Juggernaut (12/16/2016 21:53:17)

^ actually people are getting hang of it i mean i did 15 wins today 3 of them were 1 human 1 npcs 4 of them 2 npcs and surprisingly 8 of them are versus 2 humans and same story with many of my friends telling me they are facing a lot of humans today so might be a change we shall see



SouL Prisoner -> RE: Juggernaut (12/17/2016 0:35:42)

@Machaar idk what kind of exp you had, but i just played few jugg matches, got 2 players, 1 player 1 NPC, 2 players, 2 NPC( 32, 33) decent hard(NPCs now heal more often and does quite a few critics too) and above everything else the NPC matches takes way more time than the player matches. So fighting against NPC might not be all that good especially if your going for daily jugg achievement. IMO, taken the current situation, this is good as it gets. :)



Lord Machaar -> RE: Juggernaut (12/17/2016 8:08:54)

Ask anyone on the leaderboard, with a level 40, 98% of battles are versus NPCs, win ratio is also close to 98% unless there are DCs.
I did 10 battles, 10 NPCs, 10 wins, felt like just any other NPC battlemode where you farm/bot NPCs.
quote:

1 player 1 NPC, 2 players, 2 NPC( 32, 33)

So now to you farming mid level players for your own enjoyment is just as "better as it gets"? We know that the NPCs will not help any type of player when they get matched versus a jugg. 0 chance to win, and it's not me saying that, look at the players' reviews. Therefore the devs are only repeating their mistake when jugg made mid-level players quit back in gamma-delta.

Mid-level players will keep on clicking on 2vs2, get matched versus juggs with a useless NPC, lose repeatedly, decides to buy the skullcard and joins jugg battles, do the same to low-level players, until everyone quits 2vs2 and joins jugg making it officially a NPC battlemode. NPCs should be worked on from basics. Their improvement to AI wasn't sufficient, if they don't actually improve it, then botting will be a thing, mid-level players won't play 2vs2 anymore due to the unfair matchmaking, so if the game only gets better to you, it's not getting better to others. Fixing the game requires devs to take all of its aspects in consideration.

And usually during gifting, it's where the most amount of players log on to the game. Therefore, starting from january, juggernaut will be an official NPC battlemode.
If you are a NPC person like many are, then that's great news for you, ED is slowly turning into AQW. In my opinion, only jugg battlemode was broken, now they ended up making other PVP battlemodes broken as well.

Anyways, that's what I think about turning ED into AQW. ED isn't built from the core to be like AQW (Playerbase type, game mechanics and whatnot), therefore, ED can only be a PVP game or just get closed. Sadly the mobile market made all browser games die especially PVP ones. If ED tries to deviate and try to become a PVE game like AQW in its last weeks of its life, then that will just make the death of it sooner. Players will start getting isolated when they log in just to farm NPCs and not actually interact with other players in PVP, the community will slowly get splitted, until a game once called ED won't exist.

And we shall see when war starts, and january comes, that's when things are going to be clearer. Gifting event is making so many individuals overly-optimistic.



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