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Christophoses -> RE: =AQW= Reevaluating the Rarity of Certain Items (4/22/2017 1:24:52)
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@aaronarco
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I'm pretty sure you guys get my point, that AE wont bring back something that could trigger hate/disappointment from players, esp. the sensitive ones who would cry "I'll quit this game if . . " if such idea is given out.
A large majority of the OG players don't play AQW anymore. I knew a lot of people who played this game from the start and haven't logged on in a couple of years. In all honesty, and from a business perspective, those people have already paid for the rares they bought. Bringing back some rares would be beneficial to the majority of the people currently playing AQW and any people that join the game in the future. Also, salty people shouldn't get their way. Saltiness should be discouraged. These are game items, not precious metals or minerals.
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@LouisCyphere
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What about a Throwback Thursday shop? A monthly or whenever shop that contains previous rare for sale.
Throwback Thursday is a huge thing for millennials. The results of a recent study show that millennials are one of the most sentimental generations out there, even to things that they didn't necessarily experience. Since millennials make up a huge portion of this game bringing back old and iconic items would go a very long way. FOR SCIENCE!!!
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@Meloette Wells
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The idea of re-releasing the calendar classes was because Tomix put alot of work into making those things that barely anyone get to use anymore. It would've been at a marked up price compared to the originals mind you, but it still would've allowed people to enjoy the hard work Tomix put into making those classes. (Seriously, if you haven't seen some of then, check some like Time Killer or Avatar of Time.)
I own nearly all the calendar classes, and they do look amazing. It's a shame that this in-game purchase system wasn't figured out much sooner.
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There also been talked of making "variants" of rare items. In the calendar class discussion, people generally agreed that the new dc versions of the calendar classes should be edits or recolors like how AQW handled the calendar class for this. They also generally agreed that the original calendar owners should get the varients for free as well.
That's not a bad idea, but it still doesn't solve the problem that some people paid outrageous prices for shipping. For the sake of fairness, people should buy these hypothetical revamped versions for 1.5X the original price of the calendar.
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With Bardric's armor since the edits done to them was really minimum, one could argue if someone had the wolfhound badge, the thing that gives the armor, then they could get a free version of the bardric set. I mainly suggest this for Bardric's wolfhound armor because of the package's $60 price tag (with stated to be valued at $180 in that design noted, if anyone didn't bother to check the links)
That's a great idea. It's fair to those who already purchased the package and it gives people a chance to get the specific canonical variant of the set.
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@Aura Knight
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It would seem the focus of rares in this thread has to do with ones we can buy in a shop, but what of the ones that are monster drops? As I'm sure many of us have experienced before, it's no fun being at the mercy of RNG. You can try to get something for a long time and still not succeed. What if the thing you wish to get is just a drop? How does it feel to try for something for hours, possibly days, or even longer and still fail? There's something not right about that.
There's actually no point for boss drop items to ever go perma-rare. AE doesn't make money from them unless there's a purchasable variant, in which case people don't tend to actually purchase the items they can obtain for free. At most, boss drop items should be tagged as seasonal rarity.
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@Ninjaty
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As long as this simply applies to future items, absolutely, go for it. That way no one loses anything, everyone gets what they were promised.
That still doesn't address the major, and main point of this thread: items that have already gone rare.
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When you take a rare item and return it to the game, you specifically remove it's very reason for existing in the first place; which was to be rare. You deliberately take an item that a specific player group centers around, that the item is intended for, and pull it straight out of their hands, making it useless to them, and then give that item to another group.
Rare items don't exist for the sake of rarity. They aren't designed specifically for people who care about owning a rare item. Many people that participated in this thread have claimed that they couldn't care less about whether or not an item is rare. We here, on the forums, make up the minority of the player base, but that's still an example nonetheless. As for people who care solely about rare items, they are entitled to their interests as long as it doesn't cause disappointment to others, and a lot of people are disappointed by not being able to obtain a specific item because of an artificial rarity.
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My example of taking high-end farming items and making them available for 0 gold is the same; you take the item, remove its original purpose (being farmed for), make it unappealing to the people that specifically wanted it for this purpose, and then make it available to everyone equally. Same exact situation, with different types of items.
This example is inapplicable to the discussion at hand. End-game items require a lot of time and effort to farm but very few of them ever go rare, so you have every opportunity to obtain them and take as long as you want to do so. Furthermore, items would never go from end-game to 0 gold, or rather gold at all. They wouldn't even be available for ACs.
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No, it isn't, because a rare, by it's very existence and nature in AQW, is only meant to be legitimately available for the short duration it is initially available in. After that, it is meant to exist solely with those that obtained it, or it would have no value in it's existence at all. Furthermore, when you just retroactively take it back, after having already given it to a certain group, all you do is step on that group for the purpose of stepping on that group. That's not healthy for a community either, and only serves to split it up.
I'm sure that telling players who missed out on an item that they will never be able to obtain said item is a much better solution to keeping the community whole. If I had a dollar for every time that a war was started in Yulgar over rare items I would be rich. Bringing back certain rares would benefit a significantly larger portion of the community than it would "harm".
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Again, this has nothing to do with being elitist, it has to do with being FAIR. If you give something to a specific group (determined by the properties of the item), and then remove the exact property that group is interested in, you have just taken the item back again, and away from that group. You have just removed the appeal, from the very group that was supposed to be interested in it. To do with with items that people have gotten attached to, would be nothing short of cruel. Give a person a pet, let them grow attached to it, and then yank it out of their hands months or years later, because you now make them allergic to the animal in question. The thing you don't get is, it does hurt, no matter the circumstances.
This is about fairness for all player groups, yet you seem to not consider rare collectors valid enough to deserve the respect you give the others. If a rare collector has obtained a rare they really wanted, they have pride in it and they treasure it, just as if someone interested in end-game farming items have spent months farming for one. If you take the rarity away however, it becomes worthless from the collection standpoint, just as if you make that end-game farming item something you can get in Yulgar's shop for 0 gold. You have taken all the appeal away, the very appeal that was the reason for the item being created in the first place. If something cannot hold up to it's reason for being, it shouldn't exist anymore, because it is no longer needed.
You don't seem to acknowledge that I have said multiple times that ONLY SPECIFIC items would return. Rare collectors would still have stuff to "value".
As for "respecting" rare collectors, I can't find it in myself to value a portion of the community that finds joy in others not being able to obtain specific items. That's egotistical and takes away from the fun of the game.
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just as if you make that end-game farming item something you can get in Yulgar's shop for 0 gold
I honestly don't know why you keep bringing this up. End-game items have nothing to do with rares. Difficulty and accessibility are two completely different discussions.
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And that is what you don't get! To collectors, rarity is not a barrier, it's a feature. It is the key factor in determining their ability to like the item, to determining whether or not to have it in their collection. It is alpha and omega, just like the farming criteria for someone who collects end-game farming items, or someone who wants only Dage's Legion or Nulgath Nation items; it is specifically what makes the item attractive to that audience in the first place.
Valuing an item's rarity over its quality is an insult to the devs that design items.
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That is not something you should mess with, because in doing so, you mess with the entire group. Essentially, you just casually decide that this group isn't worthy of having the items in question, and try to allocate the items to another group.
No, I'm saying that the mentality of "Ihave something you can't get" doesen't overule those who just want to have the items they want and are willing to obtain them through ligitimate means.
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If you at all care about fairness, let each group keep what they have been given. Don't try to change items in a way that makes them unappealing to the very groups they are intended for. Instead, focus on the new items. Focus on getting the team to make something new for your group, and eventually, those will far outweigh the amount of rares that exist. I have said this many times over: good neighbors do not steal from one another; they repsect each other's property. I have never gone on a crusade, asking for items left and right to be made rare, just so they would appeal to my group. So why are you going around, proposing to point left and right, to take things away from the rare collectors, by making said items useless to them?
You don't seem to realize that people who join the game late and/or those who missed on on an item have already been done an injustice. As for your statement on why I can't just leave this topic alone and let the rare collectors forever have what's theirs, I don't believe in giving elitists what they want just because they want to be elite. Someone's interest is completely respectable until it affects someone else. More people are affected by the rare tag than those who benefit from it. As such, change is in order. Cutting off a group of people from the items they want is the antithesis of fairness.
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That has nothing to do with rares specifically, and for the purposes of high-end farming items, they are the same as rares in this case; relatively few people will ever get to enjoy them, because of their unrealistic expectations to people's time and dedication. Many people will never have the time for many farmable items, and would, due to their schedules, not be able to obtain the items within years or even decades, making those items as good as unavailable to them. In that regard, at least rares can be flexible enough to allow everyone a chance to get them, assuming they are there.
That doesn't mean people should never have the chance of obtaining the items they want.
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An artist should be happy that their art is enjoyed to any capacity, that someone may even have their creation as a favorite of theirs. If you truly care about your craft, then one person enjoying it should be just as good as a billion. And also, many items aren't worn that often, not because they're rare, but simply because they are forgotten or undesired. That, again, has nothing specifically to do with rares or rare collectors, but rather with people's desire to get what's new and leave everything else behind, only to be forgotten.
You can't tell an artist what they should feel. Obviously, rarirty is a problem since some devs have left AQW for that very reason.
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It's really just a matter of finding what appeals to you. I collect rares of many sorts, in my various hobbies, because these are the things that appeal to me. I like to have numbers to relate to, I like to keep track of how many survive the tests of time, and I feel I can only fully appreciate such items. Just like some people want to own items that can only be obtained through long sessions of dedicated farming, I downright love items that exist in a defined quantity, and then try to hold onto my copy, to try and preserve it.
I love items that have canonical significance, yet I can't obtain some of them due to artificial rarity. As such, your interest becomes the detriment to my own interest and those of many other players. There's a problem here. In your opinion, how should we solve it?
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Both of these, from different persepctives, are impossible to get their hands on. Time is also a valuable resource which you use to purchase things with, through the method of farming. If you know the joy of feeling your investment was worth it, and know the pain it would cause if the item just became freely available for a price that in no ways compare to what you paid, then you should also know the feelings of the rare collector. Something we invest in, if taken away, will leave a void where that thing once was; we will feel cheated and betrayed, because we earned the item through the method of which it was made available, only to have tha validility of that effort taken away, the price nullified, and the value tarnished.
We're talking about a pixelated item that has an infinite supply if certain code is written. There is no legitimate rarity to these items. We're not talking about finite resources like platinum or diamonds. Rare items are only created to create barriers. We're talking about artificial rarity.
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Personally, I care deeply about the ability to trust in the AQW staff. But if rares just start coming back, then what kind of message does that send?
That they care about everyone, including new players.
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Are rare collectors no longer welcome, or can we no longer trust their word? While I doubt the first one will ever come true, the second option is an equally tragic pill to swallow, if we can no longer assume the staff is truthful.
This statement makes it sound like only you and your fellow rare collectors matter. Everyone matters. All 100% of the community.
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It's kind of tragic how, in just wanting to keep what the staff has given us, rare collectors are always singled out as the ones being greedy or elitist, just for wanting to be left with what they have. We don't try to take things away from other player groups to make our own. Why can we not all just appreciate what we have been given, and repsect each other as neighbors in this community? Why must people with a passion for rares, always feel hunted for their items, when no other group is seemingly subject to the same?
Having a specific item that nobody else can obtain and wanting it to stay that way does, unfortunately, sound greedy. It promotes exclusivity instead of inclusivity.
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@Ted Zlammy
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Ah, rares, a somewhat controversial topic! But, to the opening post regarding prominent items that were once rare but show up again... It is an interesting subject. It is a shame how some NPCs have interesting gear that is rare, and it's also a shame how some items of interest are brought up in game but are rare. However, I know that it isn't unheard of for an item to make a comeback though. Take the Shadowreaper of Doom for instance. It was available originally in a rare 2010 Mirror World event, but years later was permanently added to the Mirror Realm merge shop as an item you could grind for during the Chaos Lord saga.
So yeah, certain well reputed items reappearing is a possibility. Should anymore reappear though? Hmm... Depends on the item. I'm not too savvy with AE game knowledge for the most part so I can't comment on any items in particular, but... I do think that if something with a reputation similar to that of the Blinding Light of Destiny went rare in the past, it ought to to have been available for all due to it's wide acclaim in the first place and should have it's rarity questioned.
I created this thread to address why significant items should return. Not all items should return because not all of them have the reasoning to do so. It's mostly canonical items that should make a permanent comeback. Your statement here explains my point very accurately.
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@juanz1996
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No, no and well no xD, we are rare hunters and that is not an issue for other groups as i already pointed it out in my previous comment, we arent an issue we arent hurting anybody and yes the quantity is rares is high no doubt on that.
Rare hunters aren't the problem, the rare tag is the problem. We don't have a problem with the players, we have a problem with the game.
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