RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (Full Version)

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Recynon -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (11/7/2017 16:14:35)

I hate the change to crit where it first got halved and then now it rolls out of 200. And the bug where cryptic gets 100 percent crit shouldn't have been reported because that was what you would've gotten under normal circumstances anyway. Uncalled for as it seriously nerfs your damage all around and the updates to defense don't produce a noticeable change so it's not like it balances out. You can have around 50 defenses and still would be hit most of the time by opponents with 0 bonus. The crit should roll out of 100 again.



Greyor_42 -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (11/7/2017 16:28:59)

@Recynon

it has already explained that it was even MORE broken and confusing back when it rolled out of 100. back then, Crit stat was based on your item's Crit bonus divided by 2, with odd numbers getting rounded down to even numbers. so a crit stat of 1 would actually give zero, and 7 would actually give 6, etc. because of that, you were actually losing MORE crit% in the previous engine than you do now.

besides, crits are FAR more powerful than they used to be, even though they don't do as much damage, as they outright ignore B/P/D, even if one of those three actually trigger and would block, dodge, or parry your attack successfully.

quote:

You can have around 50 defenses and still would be hit most of the time by opponents with 0 bonus


that's pretty much always been the case.



Recynon -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (11/7/2017 16:39:16)

No, I mean roll out of 100 and your crit isn't halved. What you're talking about is still after engine 14. I'm talking about things before that. Besides I rarely fail to hit my target firstly because not a lot of boss monsters have a defensive skill or a blind skill and even if they do my bonus is 70 so I hit them anyway. Also, they were supposed to buff defenses to balance out the the offense decrease.



Greyor_42 -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (11/7/2017 17:14:29)

quote:

No, I mean roll out of 100 and your crit isn't halved.



that would be far too overpowered and unbalanced. like i said:

quote:

crits are FAR more powerful than they used to be, even though they don't do as much damage, as they outright ignore B/P/D, even if one of those three actually trigger and would block, dodge, or parry your attack successfully.


you're basically saying you want crits to be far more powerful, and basically guaranteed to happen. a balanced game, this does not make. besides, crits still happen frequently enough with how crit% currently works. i personally haven't noticed any drop(in fact, i noticed an increase).

quote:

Also, they were supposed to buff defenses to balance out the the offense decrease.


they did. B/D/P actually DOES something now, and it's quite powerful if you actually take advantage of it. @Lvl 1000 already displayed in this very thread the absurd defensive potential that B/P/D has(he beat the theano challenge with cryptic and barely took any damage at all, without having to heal).



Recynon -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (11/7/2017 21:04:17)

It would only be slightly overpowered when you reach the endgame and your crit is high enough for it to be guaranteed, and even then you need really good equipment and 200 luck. And even if you assume you get a critical most of the time that's not imbalanced at all, especially if you play all your bosses on extreme hard mode. I would know, I played before they nerfed the crit and it was fine. That crit is deserved if you reach the endgame. Your character should be a little overpowered if you get to level 85 and right now battles drag on because of the low crit, which has cut riftwalker's power in half. Besides people without dragon amulets need all the power they can get because the base classes are extremely weak and they don't even have access to decent items for a large crit perentage.

Anyway, if this isn't changed I'll just play with double crit.



Greyor_42 -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (11/7/2017 23:09:35)

quote:

I would know, I played before they nerfed the crit and it was fine.


so have i. they're still fine. like i said, they're actually BETTER. in fact, this also make crits better EARLY game as well, because you aren't losing out on crit stat from items with crit+1(before, it would have given you exactly NOTHING).

quote:

right now battles drag on because of the low crit, which has cut riftwalker's power in half.


it...really hasn't though.



also, let me put it in perspective: my build is NOT optimized for crits. at all. it's admittedly pretty patchwork right now, with some pieces of equipment more than 20 levels below my current level. i STILL have a crit stat of 49, which, with your idea, would have me critting every two hits.

quote:

Your character should be a little overpowered if you get to level 85


objectively, this is quite incorrect. characters should be BALANCED at any point, unless they're using a tier 4 armor(of which there is only one: doomknight). only THEN should they be overpowered, as it's the only thing in this game that is specifically made with the purpose of being so.



Recynon -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (11/8/2017 0:19:40)

You're still referring to the halved crit system where you lose the odd crit points. So no it's not better than the original system where it rolls out of 100.

Halving crit is essentially halving damage, so it actually cuts all armor strength in half in terms of raw damage.

I said I little overpowered, not like doomknight where you spam carve and win with that one button. The point of an rpg like this is to get stronger so what's the point of getting to level 85 if the power balance is the same?

Having a critical every two hits would be great- I don't see what's wrong with that. If you're fighting a hard boss you're still not going to win off that alone.

At the end of the day, it's a difference of opinion. There's nothing objective about this. It's very fun dealing high damage and blowing through most fights in a few turns after 85 levels. I hate having to spend time going through each monster with more than 1 hit because you know you're going to get through the regular monsters anyway but it takes more time. So I refuse to play this game with the new engine.



Greyor_42 -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (11/8/2017 2:00:10)

quote:

Having a critical every two hits would be great- I don't see what's wrong with that.


like i said, my build is TERRIBLY unoptimized for crits. if i had proper gear for my level that was actually GOOD, your proposal would lead me to do nothing BUT crit. that's the issue. and i'm not even level 75 yet. and then there's the whole issue you ignored about it completely overriding B/P/D, thus rendering an entire stat basically a non-factor, in the same exact engine update that actually gave it a proper function and fixed from already NOT being a non-factor. it doesn't work with the balancing.



Sathrut -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (11/8/2017 10:08:43)

I'm level 85 and use Riftwalker as my main, and I don't suffer from battles dragging. What monsters are you unable to OHKO? How much health do they have? 800? Over 1000? Which skill(s) do you use first? In terms of power, I disagree that its been cut in half. Riftwalker still hits like a brick. The only difference is, I no longer have an almost guaranteed crit on every attack, as it was before this update.



admahu -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (11/8/2017 13:47:27)

quote:

It would only be slightly overpowered when you reach the endgame and your crit is high enough for it to be guaranteed


quote:

There's nothing objective about this.


Everything about this is objective. [:)] Doing double damage on every attack is not "slightly overpowered." It is a mess. This is like saying "why not just triple all our damage, it would be fun, nothing wrong with it." Being a high level doesn't negate a semblance of balance. On the original system, I would actually be upset if my attack didn't crit, which is absurd to think about. As it is now, crits are still quite often and now buffed by LUK, much more balanced than before.



Recynon -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (11/8/2017 18:07:58)

Yes, it's pretty fun to have double damage on every attack, and with this power you'd still have trouble with a lot off bosses like the ones from Cysero's apprentice. And if you play the game on hard mode and do all the bosses on extreme, that 100 percent crit is not going to be overpowered anymore. Whereas if you try to grind out those battles it would take you an hour or half an hour at least.

I would rather they not let Crits go through defenses and have the old system, since you rarely have monsters that have defensive skills anyway and even if they did a high bonus would negate it.
The only change I would make is to make it so that you can't get very high crit at lower levels but allow you to get high crit as you approach level 85 so that you earn it. Nothing objective about this- when I had almost guaranteed crit on every hit the game was super fun because I like having a powerful character after having played the game for 85 levels. And no, the game did not become boring.
Also, luck barely does anything- you waste 200 points on luck for a plus 5 percent chance of Criting- would be better it was + 10 percent or more.

But it seems no one else likes to have a character as powerful as before so they're not going to change this. I will always find the hero weak compared to before, but for you it will be fine, and that's the way it's going to stay. That's why I'm not going to play this game with the way it's set up.



Verlyrus -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (11/8/2017 18:16:26)

I'm not sure where your concern is coming from- the nerf to crit chance was almost 2 years ago.

The change made recently increased the number of critical hits you get by up to 1%.
Luck affects critical hit damage now too.

Luk (Luck)- increases damage, crit chance, crit damage, direct hit chance, Block/Parry/Dodge, affects all rolls in a small way (increase the chance for your baby/toddler dragon to use a special attack).

Luk/25 = direct hit chance, Luk/20 = BPD, Luk/20 = crit chance, Luk/10 = crit damage%, Luk/20 = bonus damage



ArchNero -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (11/8/2017 18:56:18)

The problem with it not being overpowered on hard mode. Is that you have to consider not EVERYONE plays hard mode on DF. Having DF be balanced around hard mode IMO is not a fool proof solution to the former state of crit.

Even then, I believe the changes to crit, made the game have more diversity than it was before, since back then I'd say most players would disregard an item's usefulness if it didn't have a good amount of crit which is a secondary stat, but in most player's eyes it was a primary stat. Auto crit skills may as well be useless at the time.

I'll admit I was one of those people, who loved having have almost guaranteed crits on every attack, it was so disgustingly good on the Ascendant. In DF's current state, it's a little weird crit not being as good or MPM getting shafted recently but it's manageable for the most part.




Baron Dante -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (11/9/2017 15:30:50)

Ah yes, Hard Mode, the thing the game has never been balanced for, and is, in fact, completely ignored when the gae is being balanced. There are way bigger issues for Hard Mode than just not having consistent Crits.
But you know what's funny?
Back then, you could get about 70 Crit.
Right now, given optimal gear for that, you can get 139, which is just about the same number. (This is, of course, without stats. If you want Crits, you have at least 200 LUK, and the gear is likely to boost you by at least 20 more, so 150 Crit is doable)

Also, I'm honestly not sure why there's this hang-up on Crits being the only thing that matters. Yeah, back then, Crit WAS king. Gear with the highest Crit would generally be considered the best items, and that wouldn't necessarily be wrong. Then, the game changes, and you know what? Now other stats actually DO matter. Crit no longer is, or should be considered the single deciding thing on an item, and I find that to be a good change.
And as it happens, you don't even lose all that much power over the old system anymore. It just takes a different form. It no longer comes in the form of very common big numbers. Now it's a combination of consistent normal numbers, and slightly less common big numbers.

In addition, the changes to how stats work give more options in creating battles that require strategy. Since Crits now ignore defenses, making a Crit heavy build can greatly help you break through bosses that have defenses. However, if Crit stayed as it was, this wouldn't have been a challenge. You'd just automatically have ridiculous Crit, almost regardless of your items, and even worse, most players would probably still run a Crit-focused build, so uh, those defenses now don't matter.



Recynon -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (11/10/2017 12:08:26)

How is it possible to get 139 Crit? 200 luck is 10 crit, and this combined with gear gives you 90 at most. Then if you get a critical boost from Cryptic you get 25 more, which still isn't 139. In my experience, I haven't found the defensive stats to have much of an impact at all at around 50 melee/pierce/magic. The defensive skills do have more of an effect though. The only stat that matters more now is Luck, which is a good improvement. Strength, magic, and pierce follows a more straightforward formula, but idk how that changes the overall power. Wisdom helping healing is also improvement, but not by that much and not every class has healing.

It is more balanced, but in my experience, offense has gotten weaker, and defense has seen some improvement but the changes of not getting hit still seem to be a lot lower than the defensive stats suggest even if the monsters have 0 bonus.



EdyMaster -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (11/10/2017 18:08:06)

The LUK Crit has not been set to roll of 200, as well as the Crit gain by the armors. The LUK Crit should be readjusted to LUK/10 and the armors give +10 Crit to agree and allow the 50% Crit limit.



Recynon -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (11/10/2017 20:09:38)

^ I agree with this change. 50 percent critical sounds good enough to me. (OK maybe 60). Like I said, you can waste 200 points on LUK and still get only an additional 5 percent chance to crit, and a few negligiable additions to damage and defenses. But I don't know what you mean by it doesn't roll out of 200. That's what it says in the notes.



Alm Nullamors -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (11/11/2017 6:45:37)

Crit damage has gone down? I had no idea; I've been enjoying WIS's healing boost too much to pay a lot of attention to many offense changes.



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