=DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (Full Version)

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Starflame13 -> =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (4/24/2020 22:27:51)

quote:

[image]http://www.dragonfable.com/images/mini/Verlyrus.png[/image]
Verlyrus:
Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined

Hey there, heroes!

In this month's reimagined update, we've rewritten Cinquefoil's Sandsea questline! These quests, centered around the hero meeting and interacting with Magus Hansa, have been rewritten and re-animated (no pun intended!) to better fit with Book 3's current story direction.

[img]https://cms.dragonfable.com/df/images/REIMAGINEROSESANDdn.png[/img]

Sound and music have also been added, as well as new level 90 versions of all of the rewards. Cinquefoil also has new unlockable dialogue referring to her identity, and where to go/what to do after completing the quest chain.

Unfortunately, due to emergency circumstances, Face of Death will not receive an audio/animation overhaul this week.

In summary:

Rewritten quests: Rose Fort, Life Finds a Way, Face of Death, Sands of Eternity.

Reanimated quests: Life Finds a Way, Sands of Eternity.

Audio reworked quests: Life Finds a Way, Sands of Eternity.

New reward levels for: Rose Fort, Life Finds a Way, Face of Death, Sands of Eternity.

Additional dialogue: Unlocked after Rose Fort and Sands of Eternity.

The book found in the Rose Fort, The Nature of Magic, has also been rewritten.

Head east of Book 3 Falconreach to Cinquefoil to explore this month's reimagined content!


Also this week, a bunch of bug fixes and updates.

The Necrotic Sword of Doom is no longer allowed in the Arena at the Edge of Time
Unfortunately, its special ability is too much of a centralizing strategy to be allowed. I'd rather restrict the item than nerf it however, since it is very powerful and fun outside of the inn as well.

A Necrotic Sword of Doom rack has been added to the Inn at the Edge of Time
Clicking on this rack will deposit your Necrotic Sword of Doom into your bank, if it is in your inventory.
if your Necrotic Sword of Doom is in your bank, it will withdraw it instead.

In a similar vein, the Chronokeeper and Dark Chronokeeper weapons have had the damage from their special abilities reduced.

The Frozen Claymore and Vanilla Ice Katana have had their specials adjusted.
Effect has been changed to -30 Ice resist for 5 turns from -100 Ice resist for 50 turns.
Special activation chance has been increased to 20%, up from 5%.
Damage when special activates has been doubled to 200% base damage, up from 100%.

Fixed a bug where Archive E-189-L was locked for new players.

Fixed an issue where the font in the Rose Correspondence in the Rose Tree quests was not displaying properly.

And that's all for this week! Next week, we have some new inn challenges are coming your way!


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arcanum37 -> RE: =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (4/24/2020 22:35:39)

Really great to see the updates to book 3 Sandsea.

Now, as for the updates to the on attack weapon specials, finally forum people can find out about them. Let's see how they react.




Rafiq von den Vielen -> RE: =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (4/24/2020 22:54:41)

Well, there goes my idea of farming VIK anytime soon. I guess I'll have to work around it differently.

However, the "emergency circumstances" have me a bit worried. Whatever is going on, I hope you're handling well. Good luck.




TFS -> RE: =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (4/24/2020 23:03:51)

I really like the new versions of FC/VIK; they're actually usable as components of legitimate strategy now instead of being a lucky win button. They're preferable to Ice Scythe for classes with low hit counts, such as Ranger or DoomKnight.

I really like the newly revamped quests! We actually get some closure/resolution with Zhoom this time around, and Magus Hansa is a lot more likable. Music is probably the single smallest-yet-most-impactful component of a new release IMO, and it definitely makes these quests feel more alive. The new version of this story feels a lot more conclusive and I actually get the idea that the protag is learning more about the Rose and continuing with their journey. The old version felt... unresolved and disjointed, the dialogue with Zhoom at the end as well as Cinquefoil's new dialogue really relieved that. I loved this release!




Dratomos -> RE: =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (4/25/2020 3:10:16)

I've been really enjoying these reimagined early quests of Book 3 and these didn't disappoint either. I like AE's music a lot so when it is added it does make fights feel better. And like @TFS adding resolution to Zhoom and Cin makes the story much better.

Also the animations and rewritten dialogues on these are really good and make these quests feel like new.

And the rack for NSoD was really cleverly done.




Zeebuoy -> RE: =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (4/25/2020 8:21:34)

I know this is a rather silly question but is Cinquefoil, Robina Hood in disguise?




Flabagast -> RE: =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (4/25/2020 8:46:49)

quote:

TFS:
Music is probably the single smallest-yet-most-impactful component of a new release IMO, and it definitely makes these quests feel more alive.

Couldn't agree more. I replayed Life finds a Way the other day to see how it would hold up before an update; the cutscene with Yasimi was a lot more janky than I remembered. The Hero's old facial expressions just look so goofy now too. XD

But boy did I enjoy playing through this questline again. It's what really had me sold about Book 3 when I played it for the first time. Fleshing out the Rose, Sek Duat and the Sand Elves all in four quests. Almost like rediscovering the world that was set up in Book 1. It's really good to see that it's consistency has been brought up to the likes of recent story quests too!

I noticed a few lore changes too, having a look at that book in Hansa's room again.
spoiler:

It seems that book is now one of Jaania's old textbooks from when she was an apprentice, before she was frozen.

Also, rather than the leylines being talked about objectively, they're now a theoretical model that most scholars in Greenguard agree on. The foreshadowing about Focus Stones and their abilities seems to be entirely omitted as well.

The speculation around Cysero and Warlic drawing mana from the Core is gone too. This is probably for the best, I as remember it invoked some confusion around the nature of Warlic's magic in some community discussions in past threads.

Jaania's written notes are a really nice touch too. It really nails in the idea that she's trying to learn as much as she can about the nature of magic, and sets up some later events concerning her research quite nicely.
Also, something about "Ruins of Hawksery"? Not sure what that's about. A hint of something else to be revealed in the main storyline perhaps??





scifijimmy -> RE: =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (4/25/2020 9:13:39)

@zeebouy: Where in the story are you? Did you play the most recent main storyline quest yet?

Also saw that cinquefoil is a type of rose.[:D]




ProbablyCallum -> RE: =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (4/25/2020 9:15:09)

quote:

I know this is a rather silly question but is Cinquefoil, Robina Hood in disguise?

Nah i'm pretty sure its magus hansa in disgusise. You never see the two of them together and all of cinquefoil's quests lead you into encounters with magus hansa. Do you really think its just a coincidence that it kept happening?




Paryas -> RE: =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (4/25/2020 9:28:00)

@Probably Callum
Interesting theory! I will have to replay Cinquefoil's quests again to check this out.




Kurtz96 -> RE: =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (4/25/2020 11:53:54)

Are any of the new tiers of rewards worth getting or useful?
Did people really use NSoD in the Inn? That doesn't seem good given its unreliability and needing the attack button




Verlyrus -> RE: =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (4/25/2020 14:01:28)

It was unreliable, but with the right set up, you could just keep retrying until you got the special activated and one-shot nearly any challenge with it.




The_element -> RE: =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (4/25/2020 14:10:32)

Is there any update in what's going to happen to the hamster weapons?




Verlyrus -> RE: =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (4/25/2020 14:37:39)

I'm still debating what to do with the hamster weapons. Right now it's either between a similar change to Frozen Claymore/Vanilla Ice Katana, where the effect and duration is reduced, but the activation rate is increased, or something more unique.




wer -> RE: =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (4/25/2020 22:25:03)

I hope we can one day add walking paths to sandsea/atrea some day, I believe they were discussed in past design notes but I hope you guys just add it to give more favour to the DF world. Also can we get some background on did Swordhaven annex the Sandsea? What exactly happened after Sek-Duat's defeat after the light orb saga




quickgold123 -> RE: =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (4/26/2020 5:23:10)

@wer While I would like to see that too, I feel such a feature would likely be added after Book 3 finishes, which would free up some time to focus on general worldbuilding and other aspects of the game.




Kyros123 -> RE: =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (4/27/2020 5:19:41)

The rewrites have kinda been a mixed bag for me. On one hand Magus Hansa dialogue in the Sands of Eternity makes a lot more sense as it does feel like she would be more hostile towards the Hero given the circumstances. On the other hand the rewrite of The Nature of Magic book as Jaania's old textbook is a lot more questionable. I get to the Rose that Jaania is this revered figure so it make sense that some of her old belonging would be preserved as artifacts/important relics (just like what happens to belongings of famous people in real life). With that said however, wasn't Jaania frozen for over 200 years? The fact that the textbook of a relatively unknown mage (at the time she was just an apprentice) survived for 200 years is a lot less believable.




Vikken101 -> RE: =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (4/27/2020 5:43:24)

@kyros123

Isn't that a very minor nitpick?
I don't quite see how the rewrite becomes a mixed bag just because the book survived that long, when that has barely anything to do with the release.

For me, I very much enjoyed the release, i know it was a lot of work rewriting parts of 4 quests as well as adding lots of lv90 items. But i think it really paid of, mostly because next time we are finally beginning the Sulen Eska's rewrites i hope! Which many of us have been looking forward to.

Also, i think all the changes done to the attack specials were warranted, and I'm glad it has resulted in less options for cheese inn of time strategies.




Kyros123 -> RE: =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (4/27/2020 7:47:52)

@ Vikken101

The thing is The Nature of Magic is quite an important part of the world building. Up until Book 3 we had never been given a proper explanation on how the fundamentals of magic work. And considering Book 3 is about ending magic then we need that explanation so that the Roses plan (when it comes to pass) makes sense to us. The old version of The Nature of Magic made sense. After all an organisation seeking to end magic would first need to research and understand the nature of magic. Therefore it made sense for the Hero to find a book on the topic in a Rose stronghold.

The new verision (Jaania's textbook) aside from the Roses reverence of Jaania has no reason to be there. The audience understanding of how magic works now comes from the textbook of a then apprentice magician which has probably been obsolete for 200 years. Think about it, you're telling me that in the 200 years that Jaania was frozen no-one bothered to research and update the theory on how magic (a fundamental aspect of the story's world) works? That an organisation dedicated to ending magic is okay using information from a source over 2 centuries old? In perspective: the new book feels like it belongs more in a museum for objects owned by famous people than a Rose stronghold.

Not to mention wear and tear is a thing and even if that textbook did survive the fire when Xan had his little accident, it make no sense for it to be preserved for 2 centuries. So yeah, its a nitpick but a nitpick which is tied to a pretty important part of world building. Maybe I'm just projecting my own thoughts into the matter and if the average player can overlook it then fair enough. But its these little details which can go a long way in helping a story feel believable.




ProbablyCallum -> RE: =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (4/27/2020 11:51:23)

She could have just had the book on her when she got iced and it got preserved with her. There's plenty of other ways around it if you think about it as well. idk how on earth something like that could make things a "mixed bag"




Verlyrus -> RE: =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (4/27/2020 19:12:22)

quote:

hink about it, you're telling me that in the 200 years that Jaania was frozen no-one bothered to research and update the theory on how magic (a fundamental aspect of the story's world) works?


The book and the world explain that part, actually. There aren't really any places to gather to study magic in Greenguard. Sure there was the Necropolis, but that was primarily for the study of necromancy. Such research into the nature of magic is also incredibly dangerous, so any self-taught mages who pursued this path either perished or kept those secrets to themselves.

Not only that, but as the book says, it's the best model they've had. That doesn't necessarily mean it's entirely wrong. The theory of gravity has been around for much longer, and textbooks still teach the basics of it while physicists study the minutiae.

When you consider that of the 3 brightest mages of the time, one has been isolated, one was frozen, and one went insane, it kind of makes sense that there hasnt' been much new published research.

As we see in later Book 3, Jaania is deep in research a lot of the time. Odd that, huh? And this book establishes that the nature of magic is something that she was always interested even before she was frozen.

Also consider the close relationship that Jaania and Hansa clearly have as evidenced by their correspondence. As Hansa herself is a powerful mage, it wouldn't be too far out of reach to imagine that her friend loaned or gave her such a book for her own study.

Also keep in mind that you don't really know the details of the plans of The Rose. I think the rewrite of the book as having belonged to Jaania when she was an apprentice fits the world better than just a book of exposition that has had almost none of its elements utilized in the story.

As for wear and tear, perhaps it was preserved with magic. I admit that is a bit of a weaker point.




Starflame13 -> RE: =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (4/27/2020 21:31:23)

I mean, in a world full of magical spells, charms, and artifacts, one of the FIRST things I would do is find a way to water proof my notebooks. The best ideas always seem to come to me when it's raining. So magically preserved books make kinda sense?

Thanks for the exposition, though, Verly!




anime_rpg -> RE: =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (5/2/2020 12:32:53)

Thanks Verly, just reading through these and that makes sense, as did Kyros' points before the explanation.

Also thanks for updating Cin to explain to the Hero, whilst their brain is still "muddled", the Hero should really have identified Cin after a little while otherwise (given the Hero has been through all of Book 1 even if a new player hasn't). Can you please update the text in The Gala. Re-read that and Are Rocks Evil as part of the discussion last week (which might have prompted Cin's explanation) and I think that needs clarify, e.g. for Princess Victoria to say "But ... oh yes, *wink* it has been a long time". So to show either by the Hero or Princess Victoria saying that the Hero is pretending.

Edit: Once more, Are Rocks Evil has such a great story in just all the different aspects.




Demistic -> RE: =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (5/3/2020 9:52:15)

quote:

The audience understanding of how magic works now comes from the textbook of a then apprentice magician which has probably been obsolete for 200 years. Think about it, you're telling me that in the 200 years that Jaania was frozen no-one bothered to research and update the theory on how magic (a fundamental aspect of the story's world) works? That an organisation dedicated to ending magic is okay using information from a source over 2 centuries old? In perspective: the new book feels like it belongs more in a museum for objects owned by famous people than a Rose stronghold.


Umm...Point of fact. WE use theories that are hundreds of years old for fundamental aspects of ourworld.

The theory of relativity was proposed in 1905, Isaac Newton's theories were formed centuries before that, and they're all based on mathimatical principals that haven't changed in millenia. Also, just because a theory hasn't been updated in 200 years has no bearing on ifit's been researched, or if the knowledge has been lost. Look at the European "dark ages" where the vast majority of knowledge was "lost" or inaccessible.

Lastly, if you REALLY look at most museums, be they for objects owned by famous people or not, they ARE strongholds.

quote:

Not to mention wear and tear is a thing and even if that textbook did survive the fire when Xan had his little accident, it make no sense for it to be preserved for 2 centuries. So yeah, its a nitpick but a nitpick which is tied to a pretty important part of world building. Maybe I'm just projecting my own thoughts into the matter and if the average player can overlook it then fair enough. But its these little details which can go a long way in helping a story feel believable.


Not true. There are many manuscripts that are well over 200 years old that are in quite good condition. In fact, there are a number of beautiful manuscripts that date from 1000's. They are extremely valuable, hence another reason for intense security, like a stronghold.[;)]

Just my two cents, take it or leave it. [:)]




Kyros123 -> RE: =DF= April 24th Design Notes: Book 3: Hansa & Sandsea Reimagined (5/3/2020 23:21:36)

@Demistic

Firstly I agree, we do use information from theories centuries old because facts remain the same no matter the time period. With that said however, people are constantly continuing the research and updating the information. Take Darwin's theory of natural selection for example. After Darwin came Mendelian inheritance, the Boveri–Sutton chromosome theory, genetics, DNA, etc all to form our modern day understanding of evolution. And now we have practical applications like selective breading, gene editing etc. Yes, Darwin laid the groundwork, but the research into the topic went beyond just him.

Also museums are hardly strongholds. They might have guards and security measures (maybe steel shutters in place) but not every museum is the Louvre. A more appropriate comparison to the Rose Fort stronghold would maybe be a army barracks or military outpost. This point doesn't even really matter since it was simply me being hyperbolic.

Finally regarding my point about ancient manuscripts, it's all about context. Yes, we do have documents from over hundreds of year old but the majority of them documents of religious or historical importance/significance (the Dead Sea scrolls, the Magna Carta, the Declaration of Independence, etc). You know, the stuff people would go out of their way to try and preserve. In the same context it would be like if a high school textbook somehow managed to survive for over 2 centuries. Jaania at the time was still a relatively unknown apprentice. With that said this point doesn't really matter that much anymore because I'm willing to take the explanation of it's some sort of preservation magic.




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