=AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (Full Version)

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Kamui -> =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/24/2020 19:56:19)

Link to design notes.

Hey there everyone, there's now been some changes made to the Poelala-family of booster pets/guests, as well as the IronThorn shield. Details are in the design notes, feel free to discuss the changes here.



Weeum -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/24/2020 20:01:19)

When I was a wee lad Uldor would tell me about premonitions he would have, year in and year out he warned me of the coming tribulations. I didn't believe him. I didn't prepare. Woe is me, for I was a fool to not heed the warnings of the blind sage.



PD -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/24/2020 20:04:58)

Oh man, they did it. They actually nerfed Ironthorn after all these years.



Digital X -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/24/2020 20:07:55)

Always good to get things in order, now that it is not dramatically leaning to one side. Although yes it was quite insane when it released, definitely time this saw the light of the balance hammer.



Legendario -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/24/2020 20:12:54)

Well, now I want a balanced shield that boosts all attacks with the proper penalties. Something like blood contract. Maybe that's too much to ask but would be cool. Especially for wars when you just wanna click attack, attack, attack.



Lv 1000 -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/24/2020 20:16:20)

Honestly, happy these changes were made. I've been wanting boosters to be a 50/50 split at the very least for quite a while now. CIT change is welcome too, now the shield can actually be used as a shield... what a concept !!



Weeum -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/24/2020 20:20:11)

It being a true STR drive shield opens up a lot of interesting build possibilities and testing avenues. Ironthorn for FD rangers question mark? Ironthorn for hybrids question mark? Ironthorn still for mages in niche applications I can't think of off the top of my head question mark?



PD -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/24/2020 20:27:31)

I'm reminded that this quote from the Nerfwraith from 12 years ago was as relevant as it was then and is today:

quote:

Three Buffs for the Warriors and their woeful weaknesses,
Seven Nerfs for the Mages in their halls of power,
Nine Buffs for Rangers doomed to be ignored,
One for the Nerf Lord on his foam throne
In the Land of Order where the Numbers lie.
One Nerf to rule them all, One Nerf to find them
One Nerf to bring them all and in the balance bind them
In the Land of Order where the Numbers lie.


But still, I like the update, and now it frees up a slot for me to incorporate other things into my inventory since it was already conflicting with Miregale (and soon to be Gemini)



Dreiko Shadrack -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/24/2020 20:31:09)

Heck yeah, about time. [:)]

Also further balance on boosters, that's also nice. [8D]



J9408 -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/24/2020 21:53:12)

The first STR drive shield in AQ history!



battlesiege15 -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/24/2020 22:30:25)

Oh dang, what a sneaky update.

Glad the booster guests now use CHA more. Makes more sense that way.

As for CIT, a little disappointed it is just a simple STR drive shield. Wish it kept more of it's original idea by throwing in a Berserk ability or a Enraged effect (-BTH for player but dealing increased damage) since that is just a flavor effect.



doomas -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/24/2020 22:53:44)

crap. how much cha do you have to invest in for dunamis to be worth using.
And as far as ironthorn goes, so much for the min max play style of the olden days.
thats how i've always play.Never really understood the new meta styles that everyone plays now.
never liked hitting 10 buttons before I ever got a chance to attack. I'll keep min maxing and see how far I get. Might be a fun challenge.
But I do understand this should of been taken care of years ago before we got used to using it like we do.



zippinbolts -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/24/2020 22:56:38)

This is a gigantic nerf to werepyre builds. There is no parity to celtic wheel and chieftain's ironthron's efficency relative to mages and warriors. Please release something in this update that gives the same amount of stat bonus to werepyres or temporarily buff werepyre.



Macho Man -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/24/2020 23:08:12)

Glad I stopped using CIT like 5 years ago, I did expect the update to be sooner rather than later but better late than never! Ther ewas no point relying on an old unbalanced item anyways. I'm also glad Dunamis has more of a focus on CHA.



Kay Oh -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/24/2020 23:16:56)

I agree with the moglin booster update and the CiT nerf was inevitable. However, I wish you guys didn't completely change CiT's effect. You could have kept the same theme for its effect, reduced accuracy for greater damage (-bth lean) that fits today's standards.

@Battlesiege Just read your comment, basically the same thought. Should have kept its "flavor" effect, but nerfed.


@below NERF PURPLE RAIN +1111111



RobynJoanne -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/24/2020 23:28:13)

It's been a long time coming. Booster pets got the nerf they needed to get, and CIT got the nerf it really needed to get. As much as I would have liked a berserk shield for fairly selfish reasons, an Str drive is the better option, as mages really don't need this power.

Now, all we need to do is address old-lean armors and Purple Rain, and everything will come into balance again.



Aura Knight -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 0:53:41)

Aww my nuke everything with CIT equipped strategy is ruined. [:(]

This is a nice update for warriors at least but I'm gonna miss using the shield with basically everything. Wish it got a berserker effect also, that way while it can offer the strength drive for warriors and I guess hybrids too maybe, it could have been used for other builds as a slight damage booster when using armor skills.



RobynJoanne -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 1:13:00)

Perhaps, a good compromise would be to make CIT a berserk shield to keep its old effect but brought to current standards to make it not OP and to make a new shield with a STR drive. I really liked the berserk flavor effect, and warriors have wanted an STR shield for years.



OverLordOfDeath -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 1:56:47)

Kinda pointless with nerfs in a single player game.



Primate Murder -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 2:21:05)

Hell, yeah! It's been a long time coming, and I support the changes 110%.

@Robyn, Kayoh and Battlesiege: We already have Grakma Harbinger for the berserk effect. Do we really need to return CIT to 'only shield worth using' status?

This is a pretty huge shake-up for the meta and FO builds in general (insert obligatory Chaos Is A Ladder reference), probably the biggest since... Essence Orb? Maybe even before that.

Since nobody seems to have made a list yet, I'd like to go into specifics, to write down all the major ripples caused by this change:

1) The big one - all weapon-based and old standard skills are now 33% weaker, requiring a significant overhaul of inventory armors.

- For mages, Bloodmages and Wizard Robes go back to the top; are there any other armors worth keeping?

- For warriors, spell-based skills actually become relevant. Old standard remains op, but what about Bloozerkers? Are armors like War's Legacy superior to them now? How does this affect the subrace Beast Forms? What does the optimal warrior inventory look like now?

2) With spells and spell-based skills rising to prominence, spell-enhancing weapons like Arctic Athame seem to become more useful than MagnaBlade/Zealot's/etc.

3) CIT has been updated to lvl 150. That makes it the new BiS earth shield for hybrids and warriors, so they no longer need to run compression.

- For FD Rangers a new Str toggle shield seems to be an overall buff.

- What's the new best shield for warring/farming?

4) Spell slots are likely to see more damage spells now.

- Since Imbues do not work on spells and spell-based skills, their popularity is probably going to go down.

- What are mages going to use for elements that don't have Bloodmages - spells or armor skills?

- What's the general opinion on Str-caster build, using Bloodmages/Wizard Robes + SPells?

5) The change to booster pets/guest increases their reliance on Cha. Since they boost damage by ~60%, a quarter of that would be a 15% damage boost. Is it enough to channel some points from Luck/Dex?

6) With weapon-based skills getting a direct nerf, weapon damage boosting miscs like Sword/Staff Master Emblem are likely to go into storage.

Anything else that I missed?



The Game -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 2:26:24)

My prediction for CIT was STR boost with a Berserk lean. That would have been as close you could get while retaining its flavor, but I'm satisfied with the result regardless. It needed be to changed the moment it was released in 2007, but the nuke meta that has emerged in the last few years exacerbated the problem.

Thanks for this, Kam.



Zeruphantom -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 2:27:28)

quote:

What are mages going to use for elements that don't have Bloodmages - spells or armor skills?


Vampire subrace is still a viable option due to the INT/CHA boost that synergizes well with the boosters and certain misc items. It should also be noted that old lean skills such as WKZ/Moglord, albeit weaker in general as a result of the changes to CIT, are still fairly viable options when used in conjunction with Chaos Orb misc. The only drawback is that it takes a bit of setup, but with celerity you can pretty much get away with it and still have a reliable damage source.

In theory, Mages shouldn't have even been using CIT + skill combinations anyway, but now that the damage options are limited, Vampire/Wizard Robes should see a considerable surge of popularity.

quote:

How does this affect the subrace Beast Forms? What does the optimal warrior inventory look like now?


I think CIT will still remain a staple in most Warrior inventories, particularly because of the STR boost that it offers. It's considerably weaker, but a STR Celtic Wheel is better than nothing.



RobynJoanne -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 2:45:48)

I'll freely admit to being entirely selfish in wanting a berserk shield and don't actually believe it to be necessarily healthy for the game. I just didn't want a repeat of Eye of Naab where the shield completely lost its iconic and (in)famous effect.

I do think it might be worth it to channel some points from Dex to Cha since the bth drain from CIT is gone now. An unintended consequence is that Cha-based stat rolls from effects Love Potion and Mesmerize become quite a bit more powerful.



Noone -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 4:00:42)

To quote Will Smith: ahhh that's hot. These are nice changes.



s_venom -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 4:21:35)

I understand that the shield was an outlier, but this nerf just destroyed the shield.
Why not increase the penalty and decrease the damage boost? This way you keep shield mostly the same, but put it more in line with other items.
Regarding the booster pets, they have been going through so much changes it's kinda amusing, but also very annoying in my personal opinion.

This also slows fights quite a bit... which honestly puts a damper on the game.
I understand that there is an attempt here to have more variety in player builds, but honestly this feels more like forcing the players to change their style.
And one last thing, this shield has been about the same for almost 13 years... at some point it might be better to just leave things as they are.

Truthfully, I really dislike this update.




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