=DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (Full Version)

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Chaosweaver Amon -> =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/8/2021 20:29:26)


Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update!

Hey there, heroes!

This week, the Arena at the Edge of Time has received an update!The Lost Fables board is now home to a new 100 room dungeon: Zeclem's Keep! Also, A.A.R.G.H. has been updated with more challenges and new cosmetic rewards!


Complete Zeclem's Keep to find and earn Relics of Zeclem. These resources can be used to upgrade DeathKnight and Zeclem's gear to level 90, as well as unlock the new Relic DeathKnight armor customization!

A.A.R.G.H. has had many challenges added, as well as some reward changes. Timewarped Medals will now stack to a maximum of 100 (If you had more than 100 before this update, you will not be able to earn more until the stack decreases to below 100). You can now spend 100 Timewarped Medals to merge a Timewarped Trophy. Obtaining a Timewarped Trophy unlocks a new badge in the Book of Lore, A.A.R.G.H. Mastery, which displays how many Timewarped Trophies you have. Currently Timewarped Trophies stack to a maximum of 5, and this number should increase with future updates.

A.A.R.G.H. has also received a number of new cosmetic rewards for 25 Timewarped Medals each. Check them out in the A.A.R.G.H. reward shop!

Think you have what it takes to face these new challenges? Click on the glowing portal above Falconreach to visit the Inn at the Edge of Time!
Also this week, the January Dragon Coin special is here! Cysero's closet needed some cleaning, and what should show up but this amazing new back piece! (Which of course, is promptly put on sale!)


The Reflecting Polygonal Sphere of Many Lights is a cosmetic back item now available in the Book of Lore for the month of January! Get it while you can and get groovy!
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deadman793 -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/9/2021 0:19:01)

There needs to be a full heal before the Zecelm boss fight or a healing pad in the dungeon if youíre going to make a boss thatís stupidly overpowered knowing the player will have used up supplies or is not fully healed when they find the boss is unfair.

Flabagast -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/9/2021 0:58:55)

Level 90 Deathknight items!??! Holy moly, better get grinding.

Sibixi -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/9/2021 1:12:19)

I don't exactly have a lot of love for inn challenges that require a ton of grinding for the rewards, but Death Knight items are long overdue for an update, so I'm sticking it out.

That said, the boss fight seems excessively difficult for a 100 room dungeon, and replacing the healing pads with single potions is... questionable, to say the least. Overall, I would say we're starting off the inn challenges for 2021 on the wrong foot. I recommend healing pads instead of potions and nerfing Zeclem's damage output and healing to something more appropriate for the type of challenge we're dealing with.

Marthe -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/9/2021 4:28:13)

The new AARGH rewards are super pretty, and include some things I've been wanting for a while, like the spear and Daatael's wings. I foresee a lot of grinding it in my future. As for Zeclem, while I'm not a huge fan of grinds like this, it also has been quite a while and it's good to have variety. The items aren't big upgrades from the level 80 Unhallowed items, which is fair because those were already great, and they look very nice as well. The one thing I'm confused about is why the NDA versions also upgrade from the Unhallowed items, rather than the Shadowed ones. NDAs can't really get the Unhallowed items and have no reason to do so anyway, since they need UDEs to upgrade them (and can't enter Haunted Castle) and they're all DA only anyway.

AstralCodex -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/9/2021 4:49:19)

Sigh... This is going to be a bit rambly, so strap in.

This was by far my least favorite Inn release since I came back to DragonFable in late 2017, even beating out the much maligned Pandora's Gauntlet release. In many ways, it feels like the complete opposite of what the Inn is supposed to be in my mind.

To me, the Inn is supposed to primarily test players in terms of strategy, not grind. Many other parts of DF are about doing the same easy task over and over again - getting good gear from quests is basically this, and wars are definitely this. The Inn is unique because it challenges players to come up with a clever strategy to beat a boss that has unique mechanics. It's not supposed to be more of the same grind.

I think the way the quest is setup means that there couldn't have been a difficult boss with complicated or interesting mechanics. No one enjoys dying after 80 rooms to a boss with complicated or obscure mechanics. This meant that the boss is easily defeated with the much maligned Chaosweaver + Guests, Techno + Guests, or basically any offensive class (+ guests if you want). Guests are also encouraged by the fact that the mooks are so large, making them hard to 1-turn reliably. To me, the main conceptual difficulty this week was realizing that you could use high hitcount trinket skills with Quadstaff or Blade of Awe to allow for MP regeneration on classes without MP regen.

Another reason I enjoyed the inn (and I suspect many others do) is trying out a variety of niche strategies on a boss. However, this quest doesn't allow for that either, due to the boss being preceded by the dungeon crawl. As noted in the Pandora Gauntlet Post Mortem, a lack of the ability to experiment can be really bad from a player interest perspective.

So the result is a quest that can feel more like a slog than an actual inn challenge. After all, 100 rooms without a healing pad is not a challenge, let alone 100 rooms with potions sprinkled around and with guests in their current state.

That being said, I would've been fine with the release, if we didn't have to do the quest so many times. To get every piece of DeathKnight gear from this quest, you need 33 relic pieces. To unlock the customization, you need an additional 10 relic pieces. This means you need 43 pieces total. As of now, I've completed 7 runs of the quest, netting 15 relics total and taking me a bit under two hours or so. From talking to other players on discord, I was unlucky with the chests, but it seems that on average, you do get fewer than 3 relic pieces per run. At my current rate, with optimal endgame gear and guests and Chaosweaver and all that, it looks like it'll take almost three hours to get the remaining relic pieces, meaning I'll have spent five hours at the end of it to get all the items from today's release, basically just grinding away at a quest in a similar fashion to farming for random resistance gear from quests.

To put this five hours in perspective, getting C&F's cosmetic weapon took me maybe an hour and twenty minutes tops. Farming Pandora for Elpis and C7, assuming you never get the drop, takes maybe an hour or so (though it depends on if you have DC/SO classes). The closest grind in recent memory is Exalted Apotheosis, but that grind consisted of five different releases featuring 6 different bosses and 6 mini bosses, thereby having a ton of variety. Timetorn Matrix and Togs are the only grind in the Inn that exceed today's release in grind difficulty, but both were relatively early in the Inn's release, and Togs has the defense of requiring new strategies as the Togs get harder and also allowing for easy experimentation. (And arguably, Timetorn Matrix has the defense that it's the *first* grind in the inn, as well as having the first 1000 room dungeon.)

tl;dr: It's not the least enjoyable thing in the world, but it falls far short from the high standard that most Inn releases hit due to not challenging players strategically, Zeclem being hard to experiment with, and being quite long.

Dratomos -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/9/2021 7:40:45)

On the contrary, I don't mind these labyrinth challenges. I liked the idea of Zeclem's Keep, the artwork and minions looked nice. Since it is only 100 rooms, I don't see it being a too bad thing, we can always get up to 5 mana potions. We don't get these so often so it is nice to get some variation to the Inn challenges.

However, lack of healing pads can make this very hard and annoying to deal with. Zeclem hits much harder than the final Blood Elemental in Timetorn Matrix so it is mandatory to have a good class that can beat it. But most of the great inn classes are too time-consuming on this labyrinth.

Adding healing pads instead of only 1 potion would make this challenge much more doable. And since we have no starting healing bad, it makes this even more annoying to start again if you lose to Zeclem since you cannot even heal at the start of the quest.

@AstralCodex: And the idea of this being annoying to farm for new DeathKnight items isn't surprising, they've always been like that, we've had to 3 different quest 4 times to get resources for 6 base items that also requires to do 6 times a quest. So if one wants to have all the DeathKnight items at lvl 80, you have to do 78 runs of quests. Compared to that, it's not that bad. Sure they can be short if you are lucky, but so can this. Adding healing pads would fix a lot of problems this quest has.

Verlyrus -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/9/2021 12:50:53)

a few responses

1) DeathKnight items were already quite powerful at level 80. Therefore, the level 90 versions, which would be stronger, should as a result be relatively difficult/effort required to obtain.

2) DeathKnight items have somewhat traditionally required some grind to upgrade. We also haven't had a dungeon grind challenge since Timetorn, a while back. So I don't think it's too bad to have another one now.

3) There are a lot of DeathKnight items to upgrade. They could probably have been spread out across different releases to alleviate the grind. The armor customization being a reward from this probably didn't help either.

3) As with Timetorn, you don't have to defeat the boss to obtain the rewards. While it's certainly more rng if you don't, it's very possible to go in, search for a shard or two, and then leave and restart.

4) It's a challenge. Not having full heal pads changes how you tackle the dungeon. For some that means hit-spam + healing special. For others that means careful potion usage. Or guests. The one-time use potions were a new experiment, and it seems they're too rare, or the enemies too bulky.

5) Thanks for all the feedback. While I've made some counterpoints, I do accept that it's a bit too rough, and forces certain playstyles, which doesn't quite work well when the content in question must be done many times to obtain all the rewards. I do have to keep in mind that challenging doesn't always mean fun.

EDIT: Added a full heal pad to the start room.

Eragon Dragus -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/9/2021 13:34:14)

I personally enjoyed this release. Aside from the grind, having a 100 room dungeon layout that is much different than other ones is a breath of fresh air. Also was really surprised and excited to see the boss unleashes its full Deathknight skillset on us.

Plus, I found a small bug that won't allow you to save the customize the legs Relic Deathknight parts.

AstralCodex -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/9/2021 13:37:28)

Thanks Verly.

I do agree that one grind every now and then is fine - the last real Inn grind was C&F, and before that was Pandora's Gauntlet, which was nerfed immediately, so it's fine to have one now.

I also agree that it's in line with DeathKnight gear, which ordinarily requires completing 24 5x5 dungeons, 24 4x4 dungeons, 24 Haunted Castles, and 6 Moonridge waves. But that's still only about an hour and a half of grind, consists of three different locations to reduce tedium, and perhaps, more importantly, isn't an Inn challenge. It's pretty normal to spend an hour grinding for the new max level gear on every story release, for example, but it's unexpected to have to do an inn quest 20 times.

TFS -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/9/2021 14:33:49)

I liked this release, having something that's a bit of a mix-up from the usual is a nice change of pace. I don't take issue with the grinding, it's been a full 11 months since we got an Inn grind and this is clearly a one-off, so it's not like it's being spammed or anything. Others have said Zeclem himself isn't very hard (which is an understandable complaint because it's been a while since we've gotten something hard-for-real), but you also have to account for the dungeon itself being part of the challenge. A boss you can feasibly lose to at the end of a 100 room dungeon would also just make it even grindier lol.

If I was forced to criticize this release, I'd say that more farming just encourages more Chaosweaver homogenization (on top of how it already invalidates normal challenges with how, uh, less-than-perfect guest balancing is, but that's a separate thing entirely) as it's obviously the fastest and easiest thing to use and people are always going to pick the fastest and easiest option for farming like this. Though this isn't really the fault of the release or even with Chaosweaver, it's more because there isn't much competition for farming classes - TimeKiller is rare, RDL is a pittance, and DoomKnight can't always one-turn the trash mobs in this particular quest. Not much of a criticism of the actual release, but it's the best I can muster.

I'm also having a lot of fun with the AARGH update, but I'm a bit confused by some of the inclusions/exclusions.
Why are some of the Corrupted Seven here when there's an unlock requirement behind fighting them normally? It seems weirdly inconsistent that the theoretical player who cannot beat Lust or Gluttony would not be allowed to challenge Wrath or Sloth normally, yet would be allowed to challenge them in AARGH.
Why isn't Pride here if her siblings are? It's not like she's terribly difficult, or in the case of bad luck any more frustrating than rolling Sinnocence or Illumina and just relogging because it's faster than fighting through.
Why weren't the Baleful Brothers included if the Corrupted Seven were? While they're weak on their own, they certainly aren't the easiest fights on the menu (hello, Dragon Challenges) nor would the trio fight be the hardest. While their fights have to be unlocked sequentially, that again didn't really stop the Corrupted Seven.
But yeah it's cool seeing new enemies freshen up AARGH and I really like the new cosmetics as well. Illumina's Wings are my favorite!

Anyway, I liked this release. The grinding isn't an issue (to me, at least) because it's a one-off release and you can always just go back to it whenever. If there were, like, 10 releases in a row of this then I'd understand the frustration but that's ostensibly not the case.

EDIT: Just remembered that the Deathknight weapon got an upgrade too lol; no one mentioned this even though it's a pretty glaring issue so it must have slipped my mind. It's by far the weakest Inn weapon, yet is one of the harder ones to obtain. The cherry on top is that we even got a Darkness weapon from the Inn last month that's downright trivial to get, yet is so much better than the level 90 Deathknight weapon(s) that it's actually funny. Can't believe I forgot to mention that even when trying to think of a criticism, the weapon not being on par with any of the other inn weapon thus far, much less the other Darkness one that's way easier to get, is a way bigger flaw than this being a grinding release IMO.
The Belt/Neck/Ring were already insane for level 80 (and in the ring's case still better than most level 90 rings) so those ones make sense with the stats they were given, but the weapon is just downright terrible both before and after becoming an Inn reward lol.

Vaalirus -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/9/2021 16:03:31)

I was always kind of hoping we'd get to see or fight Zeclem as when I first started grinding for gear in this game back when I first started playing I noticed the lore that was attached to items so this inn fight was a nice surprise and I'm also glad how it feels like in the fight that Zeclem feels like an upgraded death knight in terms of some his move sets.

The ErosionSeeker -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/9/2021 17:47:58)

I wouldn't have minded the dungeon crawling aspect if it didn't bring back nasty flashbacks of the other arbitrarily tedious grinding that was necessary for Deathknight items.
What I'm referring to is losing your saved telepoint on death, which makes it so anyone who can't guarantee a Zeclem kill gets a several-minute walking penalty just to try him again. I threw RDL at Zeclem a few times and just getting to him unironically took as long as the fights, which I ended up losing, because the way the dungeon is set up is extremely unfriendly to experimentation.

Also doesn't help that Braughlmurk Bindings, Shadow Bone Shards, and Unlucky Doom Essence has an equivalent amount of walking, because completing a quest for BB/SBS puts you back to the first room of Braughlmurk, instead of just outside their dungeons.
Take it from someone who collected Ignis Gem items just to have them all; I don't care about how long it takes to go through the quests, my frustration is with the additional, arguably unnecessary walking needed to actually get to the content.

Oh also the Deathknight 90 weapon is bad. Forced Reflection basically kills it in every aspect including acquisition difficulty. This thing is way worse than NPSB.

Solanaceae -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/9/2021 18:04:16)

I quite liked this release. The DeathKnight items have always been pretty iconic, and it's nice to see them getting a dedicated endgame dungeon with Zeclem at the end. In terms of aesthetics, amount of grind, and difficulty, I'm pretty happy with what we got overall. I did think the dungeon was a bit frustrating when I died to the boss on my first run, so I think the health pad added to the starting room was also a good idea.

However, like TFS said, some of the rewards are pretty lackluster. I thought it was a little weird that Zeclem is a lot stronger than the mimics (as he should be) but gives the same exact reward. There's an incentive to just skip the boss if you can't easily kill him and farm mimics instead. Timetorn avoided this issue by giving the equivalent of 5 shards for the 500/1000 room dungeons.

As for the merge rewards themselves, while the ring/necklace/belt already were and remain competitive stat-wise, the others have bad stats that are more in line with story drops than endgame dungeon grinds. The weapon in particular is especially lacking when you compare it with its analogues in Timetorn, the other inn dungeon, or the Xing/Xang duo, which gives a much better Darkness weapon despite being easier than beating Zeclem and a lot less time-consuming to get. The main thing it's missing to be in line with other inn weapons is 10 All and -20 Health, so maybe Verly just forgot to give them updated resists when giving the other level 90 DK stuff their old ones.

shrike -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/9/2021 18:24:05)

I really liked this release! As an AARGH fan and someone who was looking forward to Unhallowed DeathKnight upgrades, this release had just about everything I wanted. I'm setting the new badge as my new long-term goal, too!

I do have to second some of the discussion here about the weapon, though. I love the art for the Relic DeathKnight Blade, but it doesn't really seem on par with any Inn weapon. I know not every new Inn release has to be brand new BiS, but the Blade is so iconic that it really feels like a letdown. I'd really like to see minor tweaks and maybe some all res to bring it closer to other Inn weapons, to make it a little more of a viable option.

AstralCodex -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/9/2021 18:39:28)

Oh yeah, super agree on the Zeclem weapon being a let down. It really doesn't feel like an Inn weapon, as Shrike said - it has 99 average damage and 0 all, while Forced Reflection is one of the easier inn weapons to get but has 97.9 average damage and 10 all resist.

Kurtz96 -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/9/2021 20:37:04)


while Forced Reflection is one of the easier inn weapons to get but has 97.9 average damage and 10 all resist.

Am I missing something here cause Forced Reflection has 94-98 which equates to average damage or 96?

AstralCodex -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/9/2021 21:33:22)

Itís off topic but due to the 19 of each mainstat, Forced Reflection functionally has 97.9 base.

Same as how Zeclem has functionally 99 base due to 97.5 average + 15 mainstat.

Kurtz96 -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/9/2021 22:31:39)

Hmm, it seems I am in the minority that like the relic blade. Since it is a dark weapon, you will mostly be using it against light enemies, and it has 11 light resist. I don't feel it is big step down from other Inn weapons.

Circlet and ring upgrades are great, they were already useful items even at level 80.

TFS -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/9/2021 23:42:36)


I don't feel it is big step down from other Inn weapons.

Other Inn weapons have +10 to all resistances, which includes Light as well as every other element plus Immobility lol. Having +1 to Light resistance but -10 to every other element in the game is an extremely pointless niche; it's completely useless when for the purposes of resistance stacking it's already possible to get 99 Light+All (the cap) with any combination involving different weapons that already give +16 to Light resistance. Not to mention that Light resistance itself has almost no real use to begin with anyway; there's only one offensively threatening Light monster in the entire game (who is immune to Darkness anyway) that it's actually possible to stack resistance against, and Light resistance is far from necessary to defeat this monster in the first place. And of course if you're fighting something that doesn't deal Light damage you're just losing 10 resistance points for no reason.

It gets worse even if you look at it through the scope of simply an Inn weapon. The closest item to draw a parallel to would obviously be the Necro Paragon Soulblade. Comparing these two weapons, the very first thing that comes to mind is that the Necro Paragon Soulblade offers me a 10% damage reduction to all incoming attacks, which is the most important quality for any item you're looking to equip. Other benefits this weapon offers are a 10% (net) healing increase, an additional 7% (net) crit chance and +20 to all three main attacking stats. The Relic DeathKnight Blade, in comparison, offers me a 0% damage reduction to incoming damage (unless it is of the Light or Darkness element, both of which are uncommon for the specific reason that other, better items are very good at resisting them), a 0% healing increase, an additional 6% crit chance and +15 to all main attacking stats.

"But TFS," you might say, "not all weapons should be equal, of course some are better than others." While this is true, these are both challenge rewards that demand very similar gameplay requirements while being drastically different in difficulty. While both weapons require 4-6 (on average, with fluctuations due to treasure chest luck) runs through a 100-room dungeon, Zeclem's dungeon has significantly stronger monsters (anywhere from 1.5x to 2x the HP, no elemental weaknesses, no uniform weakness to weapon specials) while also harboring a substantial boss monster in Zeclem himself and not offering infinite potions or midway healing points. On top of that, the Relic Deathknight Blade is exclusive to level 90 characters AND requires you to have already grinded out the level 80 version in the main game beforehand.
It requires you to do the exact same thing, but harder, and for a worse reward. If you care solely about the stats of the weapon, there is no reason to obtain the Relic DeathKnight Blade. While DF's challenges don't follow a super strict ratio of difficulty:reward, this example is probably the biggest demonstration of that yet.

This is also doubled down on by the fact that we literally got a 10 All -15 Health Darkness weapon in the challenge immediately prior to this one, which is also significantly easier to obtain while eclipsing Relic DeathKnight in every way. And even if we don't compare it to either its closest equivalent unlock requirement or its greatest competition in usage, the Relic Deathknight Blade still loses drastically even to the weakest echelon of prior Inn weapons (Dragon Challenge rewards) but I think I've ranted enough about this lol.

So, yeah, no. I got a little long-winded in my explanation but this is definitely not a very good challenge weapon.

You're right about the circlet/ring though; even at level 80 it's BiS for MPM while also having +15 resistance to two elements that are (unlike Light) extremely important to build resistance towards. Unlike the weapon, an upgrade to the ring is an extremely useful and worthwhile reward. You're already using it anyway, so why not just make it even better?

Fire alandry -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/10/2021 6:14:18)

I loved the release. So far, we had mostly boss challenges, and I like the variety this challenge adds (Exaltia Tower, endless invasion and timetorn were amomg my favourite releases).
The boss catch me in surprise- I did the first run with CW and he killed me. After that, I had to leave... In the second run I brought Techno, and won in the second attempt.

Here's the funny thing: If the only rewards were the ring and armor, it's still be fine. The ring is BiS, and the armor is nice if you like it (maybe the belt too, if you havn't the DM one). So, the other rewards aren't good? Just pretend they don't exist;)

Or.. DeathKnight has a very unique skill: Empowered Armor Strike.
Of course, one skill isn't worth a weaker equipment, but... What if the Zeclem set- or just the level 90 version- would buff the whole class damage, or resonance in another way?

Dratomos -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/10/2021 7:15:59)

The healing pad at the beginning was a nice edition, thanks Verly for that. And overall, I did like this release, I remember reading about Zeclem back in 2009 and wondering if we would ever meet him. Lost Fables is a great addition to the Inn, I really like seeing these old mythos being brough to life with this wonderful art. I really like how DeathKnight now looks with this new gear and customization.

And the equipment we get is pretty good mostly. If fighting against enemies who deal light/darkness damage (Reaver and Illumina come to mind), Helm/Belt/Necklace are BiS (Helm especially for those who don't have DmK), it is nice to finally have lvl 90 version of DeathKnight ring. The cape could be better, but at least the art on that is nice.

But I do agree on the blade, it is not certainly bad, but compared to any other weapon we get from the Inn, it is not good. It requires much more farming than NPSB, but is considerably worse. A buff on that would be nice, especially since it requires the biggest amount of Relic of Zeclems.

DemonicDarkwraith -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/10/2021 18:21:07)


If fighting against enemies who deal light/darkness damage (Reaver come to mind)

Res stacking against Reaver is a good idea in theory but against him, you're pretty much fighting him with many wounds already in your body smh.

Anyways, this release is pretty good release as little me was interested with DeathKnight and later interested with Zeclem. Even if there was some criticism with it like some of the rewards were meh [the worst being the Relic DeathKnight Blade, which is now the worst Inn non-cosmetic weapon compared to its Timetorn compatriot, Necro Paragon Soulblade (buff it please as we literally have a +10 All -15 Health weapon in the previous Inn release before this], I have fun with this release as it feels like a fresh air due to the fact that we have the solos and a duo for over half year now. Also, the AARGH update is nice as we get many new enemies to its pool and the cosmetic items like Exalted Spear and Daatael's Wings are pretty.

arcanum37 -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/10/2021 22:57:03)


There needs to be a full heal before the Zecelm boss fight or a healing pad in the dungeon if youíre going to make a boss thatís stupidly overpowered knowing the player will have used up supplies or is not fully healed when they find the boss is unfair.

I cannot help but notice that you have the maxed version of the defender's cannon yet do not have anywhere near the 14000 war waves needed to get it at that tier. How did you get the DMs necessary to upgrade it without doing that many waves?


aryc0110 -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/11/2021 0:34:07)

I'm definitely for the buff of the Relic Deathknight Blade. A nice, prime-element parallel to the better Inn weapons would be a welcome addition, and currently its stats are very lackluster for the difficulty of obtaining it.
I really liked this release overall. Even if the grind got a little less-than-enjoyable near the end, more armor customization is always a plus for me, the fashion on the new Deathknight gear is great, and it upgraded my favorite situational resistance combo by two points! 90 versions of the Deathknight gear were a long time coming and I'm glad we got them.

I'd be remiss if I didn't mention this release's other star, especially since the A.A.R.G.H. update is phenomenal. I like the addition of a lot of the fights, even if the previously-mentioned C7 inclusions are a bit odd and Illumina and Frallmar in particular just warrant a skip, I think a lot of these more than make up for it. The addition of an A.A.R.G.H. mastery system is fantastic because a lot of us have been playing with it continuously! I also adore the fashion items added into the merge shop, with the spear and the Engineer's wings being my favorites!

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