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Temblor: Containers of Exalted design, perhaps?

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couple questions, who's Lumina and Sans I haven't caught up with the other stories yet

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also the beam seems to be hitting her stilll, since it doesn't go past her.

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A thought crossed my mind though, are Lock and Key Exalted constructs? Their aesthetic seems to match, but I don't remeber if that was ever confirmed

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This also begs the question though that if the Exalted traversed the Void as well could they have potentially left something behind in there when their civilization nuked itself?

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Also when were the Avatars influenced by Doom?

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I want both sides to kinda tire themselves out and kinda just TALK it out.
Let us not take on the many waves and waves, and let the avatars and the Dragonoid and Notha just... run out of juice long enough that we have an impromptu therapy session for the whole involved party.

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Now wouldn't that be nice? :D
Notha's judgement is far too clouded by her personal grievance against the Avatars to let up her assault, and I doubt that the Avatars would be willing to be diplomatic after such an intrusion. Notha may have basically said "well they probably wouldn't even let me speak anyway!" but I suppose she's not entirely wrong. :P

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It also makes me wonder if the weapon itself may have played a role sending some of Ehr'Ishin to Lore, via literally punching a hole in reality and sending it through time and space. It may sound a little ridiculous, but we have seen traversal between planes being used as a method of time travel (the Riorr Saga, namely)... and it does prevent my theory - that the Exalted's war occurred before Lore's conception - from falling apart completely. >.>

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When Notha talks about "Doom" I don't think she's specifically talking about the power of the Shadowscythe. I think she's using it as more of a label of what the Avatars don't understand and therefore think is evil. From her perspective, Doom is a metaphor of personal growth, as she talks about how it granted Lock and Key life, how it made Myalos "whole" and how it is part of the "balance of the Exalted". But of course there are other, dare I say less dangerous ways to grow and learn. And that's what the Avatars are beginning to do.

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but I doubt Remthalas would be so quick to yield...

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but I can't help but wonder how Warlic's backstory fits into all of this. He and his father were Infernals themselves after all, although quite different from any of the Infernals we encounter in the Exaltia Tower; namely their alignment to fire. It makes me think that all that occurred well before Infernals and Celestials formed their Alliance and began fighting their creators. As I recall, there is a reference to what used to be temples of the elements in The Last Stand of Ehr'Ishin. Maybe before the Exalted Alliance, there were different factions of Infernals that specialised in magic of each of the Elements? Perhaps this was the same for the Celestials?

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Also. Is this the first time the pipeline minigame from BioShock is making an appearance in a WAR? I know that it had some minor appearance in the Thunder Orb saga or something, but my memory is hazy at best.

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Also when were the Avatars influenced by Doom? Was it when Sinnocence started poking around? Or was it all the way back when SMUDD started making the cosmos fifty shades darker?

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I wonder if there are beings of Chaos (of Doom, Evil) that are susceptible to Destiny infection...

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The Last Stand did indeed mention former temples of the Elements. Given Wargoth's affinity for the element of fire I would say that it is a safe bet that there were Celestials and Infernals that aligned themselves to an element whether by birth or choice. Although it's hard to tell given that Wargoth sr. and Warlic are our only examples of this and the only Celestial we've encountered iirc (Love is still only theorized if I'm not mistaken) was Caeternam and he did not appear to be aligned to any element. Though he does tell us that he fought alongside the Elements so perhaps it is possible some Celestials or Infernals could have found an incentive to specialize in an element.

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And I think Caeternam is an Infernal, based on the colour scheme of his weapon and that Warlic said there weren't any Celestials left on Lore.

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but it seems like Hero refers to their recent change of thinking style and eh, weren't we responsible for that?

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Huh so Remthalas was going to betray Notha one way or the other


In the ending where where we side with Uaanta:

The avatars are stuck in their little orbs which I didn't think about it but does make sense not just based on what they are in comparison to other elementals but also the fact that elemetnals upon being defeated on Lore are sent back to to their respective planes when they can no longer hold their forms, a return to an original state if you will. Much like in a similar case the Avatars are forced back to their most basic state possible until they can remerge again.

Myalos lay broken but fixable, glad they weren't destroyed.

And much like Voyna, I'm glad there is an outcome where Notha doesn't have to die

Speaking of which I wonder what will to each Avatar's elemental plane, now that we know they were struggling to keep them on lockdown with the state of the Elemental Plains and the Wastes.

Also curious that we ended up in the Deadlands of all places, hopefully the stuff we left behind isn't used against us later...oh who am I kidding of course it will


Also in the siding with Notha ending did Uaanta achieve elemental unity just then? Because that'd be awesome if true since canonically we haven't undergone that state. Also makes sense as to why she was shrouded in Darkness as she tells us they have an affinity for the element.


The boss fights with Uaanta and Notha were so well done too from the music to the battle mechanics. The devs have outdone themselves once again, beautifully done



The ultimate ending here seems to determine whoever you side with outlook on the world and how Lhe'Shiyac might look politically when we next see it


And Remthalas as expected will be the last Malerous we deal with

spoiler:

The "destiny" end went within my predictions. Sorry, Notha. No matter how much I pride myself in normally not Adventure moding bosses, your behavior is such that that it breaks my combat code of conduct. Even then, you'd barely dent my techniques had I stuck a little bit more to my principles.

The "doom" end, on the other hand... I don't know. It feels... forced, to say the least, considering how sturdy the Hero's and Uaanta's resolve are at this point. Even if Remthalas made a convincing simulacrum of Uaanta in the past, you really can't judge a book by its cover. Definitely a while since I had to use Pirate no Jutsu to shortcut this route so that it's efficiently dealt with in my standards.

Looking forward to our talks with the other surviving Maleurous.

spoiler:

I don't think that what UE Uaanta underwent was a simple Unity. Our non-canonical UE had us tap into the power of the original 8 orbs (in a momentary burst), while she tapped into the core of the Avatars'/Makers' themselves. Even though they are inert right now, it won't be surprising if they had some degree of influence to their medium instead of just merely a simple channeling of potent elemental energies.

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Though it raises the question of why we didn't, you know, tell anyone about this, or why no one wonders why no Avatars appear.

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Welp, Notha didn't die. Guess I need to prep for her inevitable return. Those Avatars will not perish so long as I stand. They deserve the right to choose their own individual destinies for once. I hope the devs give serious consideration to bringing them back during our character's lifetime, hopefully this chapter or the next, as mortals. Perhaps this would be under instructions from Lock and Key, who believe the Avatars could benefit from seeing what its like being a mortal so they can understand us better and apply that experience to their new roles as guardians and protectors of the Balance. I'd love to see them live like us, learn what its like being one of us, the good and the bad, and ultimately return to their position as Lore's guardian godhead with a new sense of perspective. It would be cool to hang out with them, befriend them, and teach them about how to be a mortal (drinks in the Inn are on me!). Having them become Guardians of the Balance instead of slaves of Destiny would go a long way to making Lore feel more immersive. Very few fantasy settings I've been in didn't have some form of patron deities you could swear loyalty to and receive boons in return. Plus as I mentioned previously, I really just want the Avatars to become their own individual characters that our characters can interact with, develop a relationship with, and help.

I understand there may be issues with this considering the devs gave us a choice of two different endings, and branching storylines are something that the devs have historically shied away from due to the difficulty involved in managing two seperate, branching stories, but I'm hoping they will at least choose the Destiny ending as the canon and just write one story for that side, leaving the Doom side alone, or go the extra mile to give the Doom side an alternate story, perhaps involving Notha and dealing with some kind of fallout of the Avatar's destruction. They wouldn't even have to be released simultaneously either. They could be staggered in their release patterns so that the devs only have to work on one at a time. I know player choice doubles the workload, but the payoff is worth it, because it increases player investment in the story by a proportional amount, increasing the likelihood we'll spend our hard-earned money on buying cool new drip, gear, or classes. It also just gives you more excuses to make more cool ingame items to sell. Just saying :P.

Ofc there is the third, most undesirable choice they could make: ignore this entire storyline and its consequences from here forward and give us no satisfying follow-up storyline for either side. I desperately hope they don't do this, not with something as important as Lore's resident pantheon having taken a fall (regardless of player choice) here. That's an event that has far too wide-reaching a scope and scale to just be shoved under the rug and forgotten, and I really hope that the devs opt to go full-bore with this and treat both outcomes with the respect and care the fans on each respective side deserve. I'd love to see the Avatars return as a force for balance for the Destiny route, and would be genuinely interested in seeing how the Doom side turns out.

I don't expect this to show up right away, but I will be waiting eagerly for news of the follow-up/sequel storylines for this, ideally with 8 new friends to be made! I can imagine The New Firmament becoming another location accessible from the Travel Map in Book 4 (or Book 5) and you having the ability to speak with your chosen Patron (after completing their short loyalty quests or questline) to access shops full of cool elemental weapons and armor/items, maybe even some kind of Shaman/Elementalist class for Dcs? Pretty please? :P Give me a reason to play devs! Make me more invested in DF than I already am!

As for the Doom side, I imagine Notha might become the vendor for items and gear on that side, unlocking the secrets of the Exalted and spreading the knowledge everywhere, with the questline revolving around using that knowledge and power to keep those who abuse it to rule, enslave, or harm others in check. I imagine it would be a constant battle with would-be petty tyrants popping up everywhere to use this incredible knowledge and tech to fulfill their animalistic impulses to dominate and rule. It would certainly be chaotic that's for sure. Great technological leaps always are, and without the new, more moderate Avatars to help and guide humans in the safe and responsible use of this immense power and technology, and with Notha's zeal for spreading "enlightenment", such technology would easily find its way into the "wrong hands" and chaos would inevitably result. Notha and the Hero would have their work cut out for them maintaining Balance in the absence of the Avatars. Its like in Bruce Almighty, when God takes a vacation and Bruce quickly figures out that being God ain't so peachy.

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And remthalas - Dude needs to meet Kathool. I wonder who would win. Seriously.

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"Hi guys, you know the Avatars exist, right? The ones who attacked us 5-6 years ago because of Nythera and almost destroyed Falconreach? Well, they are not coming to help us with the Proclamation rifts. Like they didn't come to help us with Seppy or Mysterious Stranger or Caitiff... but this time it's different! Now they can't come to help us because they are orbs. Long story. Before they just didn't want to help I guess...? I don't know. Bottom line, Avatars won't come to help us. That may not be news to you since you haven't seen them in a long time nor did you ask but now you know. So... yeah."

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Uaanta's Side: This was my initial playthrough, as much as I wanted to be on Notha's side, I couldn't betray our old ladybones haha. The fight was neat, although Notha seemed a little weak (for full set DK at least) and every blow I landed hurt my heart :( I can understand how Notha wanted to destroy them, she was so close and if they were to return, all of this would be in vain. But what she did... As the Hero said, it could be a true catastrophe, I for one expected them to blow up and cause significant damage once they were dead, but turning into harmless little orbs is much more convenient.

Notha's Side: This one was... idk, harnessing the powers of the Avatars?! That was crazy! The fight with Uaanta (too) was easy, but when she changed her element I was shocked, I honestly didn't expect she to change the appearance for EVERY element, hats off to the team.
Also, did Notha deter Remthalas? That's a relief. Boy, he gives me creeps, the idea that he could defeat our Notha disturbs me...

If I remember correctly, I think Lock and Key were infected by a destiny infection during and leading up to the Archive E-189-L war.
If this is true, then is it possible for Avatars and Lock&Key to balance each other? Maybe they merge or something.
It's scary how much we trust those two, we practically gave them a power to control the Lore.

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the new Uaanta's Blaster (Doom) is now the BiS offensive trinket in terms of stats

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do note that there are plenty of BiS gear scattered around the game already alongside situational/suboptimal and mundane ones.