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Grace Xisthrith -> RE: =AQ= Stat Overhaul Discussion & Feedback! (1/22/2024 22:13:38)
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Exciting to see more discussion, very cool. Also again thanks to the staff, I've had a very fun time thinking about these changes.
I had some more time to think about the changes, and I do have a few more thoughts. But first, I wanted to ask a question officially on the forums, about the luck "auto hit" type changes. If I understand this correctly ("Global 5% chance of hitting, regardless of defence. Player-only: with 250 LUK, this can increase to 10%."), this means that if a target can't hit another target at all (IE, their bth is 100 or more less than the foe's defense), they instead have a 5% chance to hit. If I understand correctly, this would not impact the following situation:
My character has 100 bth, and is fighting a Super Sneak Mob with 170 MRM. I have a 30% chance to hit, so my chance of hitting is greater than 5%, so the LUK bonus doesn't apply. --- But would impact ---
My character has 100 bth, and is fighting a Super Duper Sneak Mob with 210 MRM. I have a 0% chance to hit, but with the LUK bonus, I know have a 5% chance (or 10% chance).
If my understanding is correct, then the LUK passive bonus will pretty much never actually affect players, outside of unbeatables and weird things. I don't think that's a problem necessarily, but I'd love to have clarity on the situation, is this an effect players will regularly use and see their unlucky attacks hitting? Or is this pretty much just so monsters still have a chance to hit when the player is uber-dodge boosted, since player accuracy is almost never below 5% (base accuracy at level 150 is 78 with stats, so a monster would need >173 MRM to trigger this)
Now onto my more thoughts about the potential implications of the stat changes.
STR:
Warrior lean: It may really weaken most players' reasons to play FD Ranger. Yes, 100 Procs do 1.1x damage compared to 0 Proc 1.08x, but is that really a motivation given STR is getting a raw damage boost? I'd say FD Ranger would be locked to status builds, or else be outperformed by FD warriors just with raw damage (until ~15 turns when ramping balances out total damage, see spreadsheet below). I'd potentially give this some thought, and consider whether something like warrior lean dealing x.95 or x.9 damage could be a reasonable alternative. If STR wasn't getting a raw damage boost, I'd have no issue.
Choke: If a boss does on the high end 300 damage against an FO armor (again, taking from a pool of ~ 10 bosses I collected data from), the choke would only prevent ~150 damage. I don't think that's a big deal at all. You'd have to be in an off element armor and taking massive damage for the choke alone to do much. It could eventually have synergies in the future, but it's really not that strong, in my opinion.
DEX:
Ramping: Is ramping a multiplicative damage modifier? There's not a super great way to test in game, so is there any chance we could get staff confirmation? This would have implications for its power in FO builds, so I'm curious.
Lean Expertise: Assuming this is valued at 10% melee given the other style bonus is 6 MRM, which is also 10% melee. If it is valued at 10% melee, I did some calculations to see when it would * actually * be worth 10% melee. Essentially, it would either have to make up 8.5 BTH on a negative BTH lean, or make up 10% damage on a positive bth lean. These thresholds are at -34 BTH and +55 BTH (25% of 34 = 8.5, 85/140 = 60% outgoing damage, so gaining 25% of the damage lost, 40%, makes 10% damage). Given these leans are extreme to actually get 10% melee, I'd volunteer this Lean Expertise should be valued at 5% melee instead (this will come back later).
6 Defense: I think giving DEX some dodging isn't a big deal, although it is a powerful passive. It fits thematically, and doesn't really change gameplay too much. No dodge player needs to go DEX if this goes live, it's just a nice bonus for DEX dodge players, and basically passive HP income for FD and FO rangers. Players won't actively notice it, but it's there.
INT:
I truly believe this is a placebo style bonus, and I think it should stay that way. Mages are extremely powerful, and don't need a raw 15-20% melee power budget tacked on the way warriors or rangers (debatably) could use.
END:
Style Bonus: At the moment, it's receiving 12.5% Heal res (basically) and 5 Status resistance. That's only 10% melee out of an alleged style bonus of 15%. I don't think that's a big deal, but I'd say another small thing you could add on could be a 5% chance to break out of stuns. Not really significant, but nice when it happens. 5% chance of getting 100% melee out of your turn, so it kinda fits 5% melee value. Why I'm aiming for 15% instead of 20% is because I actually think style bonuses could be shrunk to 15%, I'll get to that at the end.
CHA:
Guest Upkeep: If guest Upkeep is 30% Melee, and Output is 45% melee, is part of CHA's style bonus being spent on reducing guest costs? This isn't in the style bonus section, so are player's just being given a freebie on that, guests pay 15% melee less than they "should?" I think that's a fine thing, and it will lead into my next suggestion.
Ferocious Strikes: Just like people don't like Mogsterio blowing their ba- ahem - HP bar out with an RNG health cost, I'd wager many players don't want to be relying on RNG guest output. I'd be much happier with a flat 55% guest output and no RNG personally (not to mention how crazy Rammsy sometimes boosting fire damage by 90% would be lmao). This would also lessen the weight on status guests that no longer have guaranteed paralyzes (Mogdin, my beloved). To get to my real devious point though, if the style bonus isn't being spent on lowering guest upkeep, then we have 15-20% melee to play with to affect guests, if Ferocious Strikes aren't implemented. (this logic is somewhat faulty, since Ferocious strikes are only worth 10% melee in the first place, which leads me to believe the style bonus was being applied to guest costs. I'll still continue though). If we use my ideal number of 15% melee of style bonus, you'll notice guest output is 45%. Add 15% melee onto that, and we're back to guest output being the same as it was, for 30% melee. Is this too powerful? Maybe, IDK, but I figured I'd throw it out there. CHA TLDR: Ferocious bad, guest base output good
LUK:
Autohit esque feature: Same questions as above. Is this actually for players? Or just for monsters?
Status Super Cleanse / Flip: Very strong as written. People have brought this up a lot I won't beat a dead horse
Overall vision:
If style bonus was 15% melee instead of 20%, you could have:
STR: 10% damage, 5% damage reduction / once per battle choke effect. This solves the problem of warriors getting a passive bloodblade, which is kinda nuts, while still keeping them above ranger for several turns and having bonus damage.
DEX: 5% Lean expertise, 5-10% MRM, 5% Raw damage up to 85% or 90%. Ramping: Just use Dardiel's version!!!! If not: If warrior damage is dropped to 110, a lighter ramping curve makes more sense. I'd love starting at 90% with 2 turns of 5% damage, and then 18 turns of 2% damage. Compare to it STR and INT on my spreadsheet (scenario 3). This would feel less bad for FO rangers turn 1-2, not beat STR for damage for several turns, and be not too crazy by turn 20.
INT: Looks good boss, push it to live : p
END: Maybe add my idea or something to push it to 15% to match up, or just don't. END does what it's supposed to do, makes players tanky, doesn't need a change unless to make it match with the rest in terms of melee%.
CHA: Please no ferocious strikes, please as close to 60% guest output as possible while mainting 30% melee upkeep (potentially placebo nerf Summon Guests to cost 5% melee more to balance LBM builds, call it a magic decompression penalty or something idk just nerf LBM before it's too late. Half kidding with this)
LUK: Status cleanse is really good. Consider taking initiative off mainstat and solely on LUK again? Would give LUK more identity outside hypercrit.
And finally, maybe some monster buffs could come through at some point in the future to counter this raw power jump we're getting. Thank you again to the staff for managing all this community feedback, and a game that's been fun for 20 years.
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