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RE: =OS= What would YOU like to see? III - READ THE FIRST POST

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12/5/2013 17:24:58   
clintonian
Member

There's not really a problem with iron hide, the only thing I think that shouldn't have been done was putting it in neutral CC. The same with corruption

< Message edited by clintonian -- 12/5/2013 17:26:14 >
Post #: 451
12/5/2013 17:27:55   
The Jop
Member

It's more than double the efficiency (4 times the energy normally, and 4.4 for CC iron hide) of shields, blocks unblockables, and can be used every turn. Even if you couldn't you use CC so you couldn't draw it every turn it would still be overpowered. Now it's just a problem that an overpowered card can be used non-stop, giving a player 1000-1100 defense every turn.

< Message edited by The Jop -- 12/5/2013 17:34:08 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 452
12/5/2013 17:29:05   
The Finnish Phoenix
Member

quote:


For example:
Iron hide is a 2:1
Shields are 5:3


Iron Hide can be a 4:1 though, which is pretty redonculous.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 453
12/5/2013 17:35:14   
  Kokujoe
Moderator


 ^^@Clintonian and @Jop I will have to completely agree to that. And that is so unfair to call it balanced when one's opponent keep bringing those [Iron Hides] up every single turn with a CC deck and its almost impossible to penetrate his/her defense and go for the kill. I know I've suffered like crazy dealing more damage to myself rather inflicting it on my opponent.
It felt like spam to me so yeah it definitely needs to be nerfed!



~Kokujoe [^____^V]

< Message edited by kokujoe -- 12/5/2013 18:00:23 >
Post #: 454
12/6/2013 4:43:29   
Resk
Member

Yes, Iron hide is 4:1 vs slow DoT, which is why it's counter to it, as it's the only shield which is more efficient than DoT
Yes, Iron hide should be piercable,
Being able to iron hide every turn isn't the main issue, as would only leave 5 mana to attack, or do other actions, being able to restore mana back up to 20 while doing so, is the issue, as that lets damage dealt be more than 5, (or 6 with cat).

And jop, you should know yourself it's far from unbeatable, with the 8-9 duels of Reso-VS-Taro, which you've won the majority of,,,

I've dueled other people who have used monks with same build, using my 22 attack/3 non attack void, winning despite their iron hide phalanx, from just being able to attack over it, with main losses being from when i drew too many of the non-attack cards, and having close games with my earth fairy who just set up mountain strikes -> double quake, (would be even easier to set up on ice with freeze, or other earth which have petrify), simply because neutral is anti-meta doesn't mean it's overpowered.

Counterstike on neutral is pretty terrible(at least on shadow you're +1 mana on it), as it forces you to use 7 mana on a 5/4 and a 5/3 shield, that would be better used individually, as the shield from it is ignored by DoT and Pierce, so at best vs characters that use only physical attacks, you're doing exactly the same as having used vanilla cards.

-Resk
AQW Epic  Post #: 455
12/6/2013 6:46:46   
The Jop
Member

@Resk
Characters with Neutralize don't have the problem of only having 5 energy available every turn. It would be possible to slowly take down your enemy like that anyway, but they have energy near the cap when they finish charging at the start of the fight or whenever they use neutralize. I only actually won those battles because there were one or two times you didn't use iron hide. The other times you used it non-stop, and 4 or 5 electric arcs equal 0 damage in that case, since you also had a counterattack so I couldn't attack you normally. But for counterattack, you usually only have to put down one or two to discourage your opponent from attacking because of the massive hit they would take if they did, and the energy they would waste. It's not used as a shield usually, because it's intended to stop the opponent from using normal attacks instead of actually blocking 500 damage.

The card just makes it a struggle to move forward in any battle and that seems like too much. I know people would be complaining if ice characters could reach the cap of 2000 shields every single turn (CC iron hide even goes over the cap), and in that case at least unblockables could still do damage. It being temporary might have been a solution if some characters didn't have 2 of them, and CC made it possible to draw it every turn. I could argue that it's almost as bad as a stun card for the amount damage it blocks, so it shouldn't have been a CC card or have 2 iron hides in one character's deck. Plus it's not a matter of waiting for a neutral character to run low on energy because they use iron hide every turn, since they have the most efficient energy regenerating card.

Anyway, having it be 2000-2200 defense for one turn would still be just as efficient as it as now, except it would make people wait a turn to attack or make them waste a lot of energy to break through the shields (also DoTs would work for that one turn the neutral character is charging at least).

< Message edited by The Jop -- 12/6/2013 7:44:32 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 456
12/6/2013 18:07:51   
The Finnish Phoenix
Member

quote:


Counterstike on neutral is pretty terrible(at least on shadow you're +1 mana on it), as it forces you to use 7 mana on a 5/4 and a 5/3 shield, that would be better used individually, as the shield from it is ignored by DoT and Pierce, so at best vs characters that use only physical attacks, you're doing exactly the same as having used vanilla cards.


Personally I have the CC's to discard Counter Attacks the vast majority of the time since I'm converting all my energy into Corruptions and Iron Hides for optimal efficiency, but there are certain cases where Counter Attack isn't that terrible. Keep in mind though that it does have a spacial advantage in that it leaves you with an extra card in your hand compared to a 500 Attack and Defend. It's similar to why Meteorite is no more efficient than a 500 Attack, but because its cost and benefit operate on a higher scale at the same ratio, it has the benefit of leaving two extra spaces compared to three 500 Attacks, leaving room for something like Incinerate which involves three cards. 500 Attack and Defend are also the best of the universal cards; Defend is actually the most efficient Water card.

A lot of the time where players use Counter Attack, they're assuming that it's inevitable that their opponent will use at least 500 points' worth of physical attacks, which is often justified especially among more casual players. That's not "characters that only use physical attacks", that's any Neutral character without the CC's to let Corruption take care of their entire offense, as they'll only have so many Cat Reflexes and Cat Reflex is terrible anyway. Counter Attack can also a reasonable choice in many instances for Iron Hide spammers, since they build up so much energy getting 10 energy for every 5 that they spend on Iron Hide on top of Neutralize that they can afford to insure against physical attacks used to break through their walls, as players might try in tandem with DoT's to break through (such as using Death Flow after two Corruptions take down an Iron Hide, or using SuperCharged with Arcane Ranger for thousands of physical damage). Void Reflection is generally less useful because no Shadow character with it has an efficient strategy against to DoT's other than their own DoT's, so their opponent can just Defend and DoT leaving you a whopping 13 energy deficit that can easily be the difference and lose the fight.

< Message edited by The Finnish Phoenix -- 12/6/2013 18:13:05 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 457
12/10/2013 3:36:46   
megakyle777
Member

it may be too late to ask for this, but how about a Christmas Card Pack? A pack with one new Christmas themed card for each element.
DF  Post #: 458
12/10/2013 9:33:49   
Beck
Member

Just a reminder: this is not a card balance discussion thread, nor is this a Q&A thread. If you want to keep talking about Ironhides and its limitations, please do so in the Card Mechanics/Combos Thread.
Your concerns about balance is important, but please follow forum rules so that things are more organized! ~Beck
AQW  Post #: 459
12/16/2013 1:45:41   
Kiazz
Member

How about replacing the two sacrifices on cyber void with 500 Attacks? That way, energize, super charge, and surge would work more often, and there would be less of a chance of overcharging.

Edit: Like, look at this: It was sooo perfect...

Editedit: And this...

< Message edited by Kiazz -- 12/16/2013 1:57:52 >
Post #: 460
12/16/2013 1:56:45   
Megadragonknight
Member

Or if sacrifice and Life Drain were considered attack card so Supercharged can boost up the damage deal on sacrifice and life drain. Shadowfire and Meteorite were boosted by Supercharged and considered attack card so sacrifice and life drain should also consider an attack card.
Post #: 461
12/16/2013 2:08:59   
Kiazz
Member

Even if it were so, mega, shouldn't they be considered full attack cards with all the privileges, such as being compatible with surge, empower, and energize as well? Besides, sacrifice costs nothing and practically shortens your life span, reducing your chance of getting an energize; it does not consume your charges, making you overcharge, and kills you. So why? Also, life drains are 8 for 900 in effect, even worse than shields for the prolonging of your life. for that 100 more, an attack card would work just as well, namely, 500 attack.
Post #: 462
12/16/2013 2:15:33   
The Jop
Member

I'm not sure I agree with that. Sacrifice and Life Drain have special effects whereas Shadowfire/Fireball/Meteorite are just several 500 attacks compressed into single cards. I don't think they need to be changed just for one dual element character to work better. And Life Drain is as efficient as a 500 attack and a Heal; it's not meant for prolonging your life but to do damage and counteract sacrifice.

< Message edited by The Jop -- 12/16/2013 2:17:10 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 463
12/16/2013 2:23:02   
Megadragonknight
Member

I never consider the HP effects it will deal, like this, it consider a spell card that deal special effects unlike Meteorite/fireball/shadowfire that deal damage in 1 turn without giving any special effects. Change of suggestion, since Cyber Void don't have any Life Drain to counteract Sacrifice, it would be better to remove 2 Sacrifice with 2 500 attack as what Kiazz suggested.
Post #: 464
12/16/2013 2:36:00   
Kiazz
Member

Really? A heal and a 500 attack would cost 7; 3 for 400 and 4 for 500. A sacrifice and a life drain, when "counteracted," would cost the same as two 500 attacks melded together. The other ones are efficient due to their lack of card space occupied, when the preciousness of it is taken into account due to the required amount for discarding in dual elementals. Hey, being able to apply super charge on those cards weren't my idea anyway, though I never look a gift horse in the mouth.

Edit: Also, this "one dual elemental character" costs 12 SGs. I think some of us might want more of a bang for our buck, if you know what I mean.

@below That's what this thread is for, not discussions where we speak without taking action, but what we "would like to see." I'm merely suggesting an option for Nulgath to implement it. On another note, isn't Sage the one responsible for deck-creation/tweaking? From the front page: "For a long time now Sage has been putting together card decks for new OS characters."

< Message edited by Kiazz -- 12/16/2013 3:13:32 >
Post #: 465
12/16/2013 2:42:02   
Megadragonknight
Member

Lets leave to Nulgath to decide if he want to remove the 2 sacrifice with another 2 attack card or anything to the issue about Cyber Void's deck. IMO, Cyber Void's deck is still really good enough as it can deal tons of damage.

Edit:
@above
Yes, this thread is for "What we would like to see" and I want to point out what cause Sacrifice, Blood Rage and Life Drain not to be boosted by Supercharged or Charged. About Sage, I believe he is the one who constructed the new characters deck.

< Message edited by Megadragonknight -- 12/16/2013 3:26:08 >
Post #: 466
12/16/2013 3:15:38   
TheSage
Member

The deck wont be changing, however Charged and Super Charged are planned to get fixed. It is boosting "spell" cards and not all "attack" cards. once the fix is done cards like sacrifice, blood rage, and life drain will get an attack boost, and cards like meteorite, shadowfire, and chain lightning will not be getting boosted.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 467
12/16/2013 3:28:10   
Megadragonknight
Member

@Sage
That's a good and sad news since Shadowfire will never be boosted again. :( At least Sacrifice, Blood Rage and Life Drain can be boosted once Supercharged and charged is fix. :)
Post #: 468
12/16/2013 3:29:50   
Kiazz
Member

But will energize and surge work on them?

Edit: Also, since you're here, can you confirm that jack frost is indeed still in the wiki location and has not changed? Or was there a change, like Bavaria/Augustiner?

Editedit: @below Thanks!

< Message edited by Kiazz -- 12/16/2013 7:26:08 >
Post #: 469
12/16/2013 3:42:43   
Megadragonknight
Member

Consider Supercharged/Charged will boost up all attack cards including Blood Rage, Sacrifice and Life Drain, Surge and Energize should work as well since it would boost or discard any attack card.
Post #: 470
12/16/2013 6:50:15   
TheSage
Member

@Kiazz : Jack is in the north map and can be found in any and all forests (not just 1 specific spot but anywhere that is a forest on the north map), as for Energize and Surge yes they will work on them (along with Empower/Might)

Edit : Keep in mind it will have no effect on your HP, just damage.

< Message edited by TheSage -- 12/16/2013 6:51:25 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 471
12/16/2013 6:51:26   
AQisFuN
Banned


 - Character Pages
- 'Passive' Cards (Cards that are part of your deck, but are not actually used in battle. E.G. Deal 100+ Damage every fourth time you use <this card>
- Chaos Characters! :D

< Message edited by AQisFuN -- 12/17/2013 2:51:55 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 472
12/16/2013 8:50:32   
Andlu
Member

@AQisFUn passive cards? How would that work?
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 473
12/17/2013 0:44:16   
danang5
Member

-Sort character we have by rank
-Sort character we have by lvl
-Lvl doesnt lower when rank up,but raise XP needed to lvl up
-Get bonus gold and/or XP depend how many minus their HP is(like,-100 HP got 10 more gold,-50 get 5 more gold,etc)

< Message edited by danang5 -- 12/17/2013 0:45:55 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 474
12/17/2013 7:20:50   
Megadragonknight
Member

A special area consists of every single characters existed in OS. We can choose to fight any characters we want including the special offer and permanent rare characters. Possession won't occur in the special area.
Post #: 475
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