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The great battle of L&L ~ Less flashyness more almost-doneness

 
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7/16/2008 5:59:02   
Mistermafio
Member

Yeah, we used to have this great thread made by yours truly for the battle of L&L.
Then the purge was announced and this here moron -yours truly once again- was smart enough not to back-up a single thing about this thread. Wich would be fine if I hadn't just deleted to pm I used to store the code of the thread in too. <.<

So now, you'll have to do with this.

On the plusside, we are fastly nearing the deadline we have agreed on. In three days, or earlier if Jer decides to hurry up, we'll be posting our short stories.

What was this all about again?

A good question of you to ask, gerenic question asking person. The answer is simple.
This is a literary battle between me and Jerenda. Each of us has to write a specific short story and in the end a jury of three will decide who wins.

Expect a bit more information and maybe even a flashy lay-out soon. In the mean-time the thread the stories will be posted in can be found:
The great battle of L&L ~ Story thread

< Message edited by mistermafio -- 7/17/2008 16:05:52 >
AQ  Post #: 1
7/16/2008 6:01:18   
Mistermafio
Member

Let me be the first of the writers to note I have finished my story completely.
So as soon as Jerenda finishes hers we'll be set to post them.
AQ  Post #: 2
7/16/2008 13:08:15   
jerenda
Member

Rawr. I have it written! I just need to find enough time to type it out and go through the editing stage.
I will get it done ASAP. Promise. ^_^

_____________________________

EC! EC! EC~
AQ DF  Post #: 3
7/16/2008 15:29:25   
Firefly
Lore-ian


quote:

This is a literary battle between me and Jerenda.

JERENDA AND I!!! *slashes MM with the grammar hammer* How many times do I have to say this? =P

I'm posting to say that I'll be gone for the weekend, so my part of the judging will have to take place after I come back. This isn't a problem, is it, since it'll take 'bout a week anyways?
AQ  Post #: 4
7/16/2008 15:37:36   
Mistermafio
Member

No! The gramma' hamma' will not hurt me!

me like me more then I anyway. :^P

No it won't be a problem. However, we still need a third judge.
Would you mind pm'ing the candidates if they are still willing to judge, anyone?

< Message edited by mistermafio -- 7/16/2008 15:38:40 >
AQ  Post #: 5
7/16/2008 15:49:41   
Firefly
Lore-ian


/me threatens to tell Versy about this

Well, Eddy's gone largely AWOL (Away Without Leave), so it's between Recar and Clyde, right? I dunno if Recar has time, atm... They both agreed though. I'm gonna pop into IRC to see if Clyde's on to confirm it all (and I'm gonna test my other computer in the process...).

EDIT: Can't access IRC. Someone else confirm with Clyde...

EDIT again: Actually, I'll just PM him.

EDIT again again: PMed Clyde.

< Message edited by Firefly -- 7/16/2008 15:54:28 >
AQ  Post #: 6
7/17/2008 13:48:01   
mastin2
Member

Well, I can't wait. I'll...read when you're ready. (Kinda hard to read BEFORE you are ready, considering how, yea, you're the one uploading them...)

And wait. 'Twas interesting.

Unfortunately, I'm too lazy to go typo hunting...
Post #: 7
7/17/2008 14:27:09   
Firefly
Lore-ian


Please refrain from /all/ critiques, typo-hunting, or even overall feedback of the stories until the judges finish. We don't want people editing pieces or people swaying judicial opinions. That's a request I think the other judges will share.

Anyways, the judges are officially Eukara, Clyde, and myself. I've confirmed everything.
AQ  Post #: 8
7/17/2008 14:42:15   
Mistermafio
Member

Great, so now the wait will be for Jerenda to finish her piece.
AQ  Post #: 9
7/17/2008 14:45:05   
gwoonjustin
April 2008 Writer of the Month


Just to inform you:

The link in your first post is this:

http://tp://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=14269723

It should be this:

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=14269723&m

Enjoy your contest!
AQ  Post #: 10
7/18/2008 21:45:40   
jerenda
Member

It's done! It's done! It's really really done! I worked so hard- I typed so fast- it's really really done! Yay!!! *dances*

I'm ready to post! But MM should post his first, because he got his done first.

Yeah, well, MM's not on. So I'm going to post mine because it's awesome and MM can post his when he gets on, and then the judging can commence! Okay? Okay.

No I'm not... I'm too nice. So I'll wait a while. But I'm also impatient. So we'll see how long I can wait.

< Message edited by jerenda -- 7/18/2008 22:05:10 >
AQ DF  Post #: 11
7/19/2008 7:09:57   
Mistermafio
Member

Thanks for waiting for me Jer, but you didn't have to. I was fast asleep and stuff. <.<

Anyway, it's up. My story entitled My name is Midory is finished and posted
AQ  Post #: 12
7/19/2008 15:44:05   
jerenda
Member

Ah, well, it's alright. I did anyways. ^_^

My story entitled Rebirth is finished and posted.
AQ DF  Post #: 13
7/19/2008 16:09:40   
Mistermafio
Member

Great, so now all we have to wait for is the judges to read the stories and start debating. I guess this thread is as good as any other to do that.

Good luck Jer, and may the best win.
AQ  Post #: 14
7/19/2008 16:41:06   
jerenda
Member

Good luck to you too.

*shivers and starts waiting very badly* Did I mention I'm impatient? ^_^
AQ DF  Post #: 15
7/21/2008 8:59:03   
Firefly
Lore-ian


I'm annoucing that I've read both stories and have a semi-opinion formed. However, we still need to set up an IRC channel to debate in. I have trouble getting on IRC atm for some reason... Plus, I'm a technophobe and dunno how to set up a channel. So I'll wait for Clyde and/or Eukky to PM me to tell me if they've got a channel set up.

I'm also extending my apologies to Eddy and Recar. Due to the absence of the former, we cancelled them as judges. But how Eddy's back... And we can no longer reinstate them as judges. (Or maybe we could, but it's already late-ish and the time zones thing is being bothersome). I'm sorry we (mainly me, since I'm the one who asked both of them... sorry. I take responsibility for this) had to cancel you guys...

We've got 'til around the 25-27 for judging, I think. I dunno when Eukky leaves on her trip (forgot the exact date).
AQ  Post #: 16
7/21/2008 9:03:50   
Mistermafio
Member

Heh, this could be me, but didn't we agree on keeping the discussion on the forums?

I recently deleted all my pm's (as smart as I am I forgot to back them up) but for some reason I believe we did. 'twas because IRC debating would be a hasstle with all the timezones and stuff if I recall correctly. <.<
AQ  Post #: 17
7/21/2008 9:18:18   
Firefly
Lore-ian


Well, I seem to remember that we last agreed to debate on IRC... I'm quite sure, unless you guys changed it while I was gone... <_<

Eukky, Clyde, and I don't have too many time zone problems. I think I'm a few hours ahead of Eukara, but not by much. I also sleep really late. Dunno about Clyde. Had Recar and Eddy been factored into the equation, yeah, but even back then, we planned to keep logs to minimize that problem.

I'm waiting for the other judges to say something. Forum debate is fine by me. My typing speed won't give me much of an advantage, lol. =P Either way is fine, esp. since IRC is /really/ unreliable for me atm.
AQ  Post #: 18
7/21/2008 9:23:03   
Eukara Vox
Legendary AdventureGuide!


IRC is unrelieable for almost everyone. I thought we had decided to do the discussion in thread too.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 19
7/21/2008 9:29:48   
Firefly
Lore-ian


Hmm, how come I got a different picture? Ah well.

'kay, since that's decided, I'll type out my opinions. Soon. My head is still pounding and I think I'm gonna take a nap first before I start becoming a StupidJudge...
AQ  Post #: 20
7/21/2008 9:46:01   
Mistermafio
Member

Hmm, you must've remembered it wrong, or Euky and I did. :^P

Sleep as much as you want. I'm very much looking forward to read what you've got to say about this... Thing, I've written. :^P
AQ  Post #: 21
7/21/2008 13:38:35   
Firefly
Lore-ian


Back.

Since I'm giving my opinion in this post, this officially is a commencement for the judging. I suggest that:

1. No one other than Eukara, Clyde, and I post 'til we're done. That includes MM and Jer.
2. No PMing us with explanations/protests of our conclusions. Let your story sell itself. If we thought it lacked something but you don't agree, well, then it might be because you didn't express it properly. After all, in the real world, authors can't go rushing around explaining to every reader that dislikes their story. Same here. Also, no PMing us about how long it takes. For other people, don't go PMing your opinions please. Our decisions are our own and final.
3. No editing your stories at this point. Unless a judge tells you to, but very, very unlikely...
4. Individual judges may have different criteria, just a heads up...

Now, Eukky and Clyde, I suggest you guys /don't/ read what I write below the hr line until you type up your own opinions and post. I don't want my understanding to influence your thoughts before you even form them. That would be an unfair advantage for me, due to me being the first poster.

Also, sorry if I sound harsh in the stuff below. I will be blunt and ruthless for the purposes of this competition. Don't be offended... Know that I love you both no matter what I say. =P



Analysis of "My Name is Midory:"

The best thing about this may be the way the subject matter was approached. It had quite a creative, tight-knit plot and the ending had depth. The way it showed theme and personality was also very subtle--nice and creative in that regard. The style was also very clever and the way you told the story unique. Narrative voice is powerful, very nice motif (I just adore motifs...), and a distinctive use of traditional vampire lore but at the same time, a good blending of your own innovations. It definitely had a feeling of depth that entertains quite well. That's what we all aim to do, right? People read to be entertained.

I'd like to particularly mention the bloody sausage bit as very powerful in its effect. A perfect example of your clever concepts of showing.

Characterization wasn't very... apparent. Hard to describe the characters. Created greater depth, but interfered with power and impact at times.

The dialogue was realistic in its word choice, but at times a little long-winded. More interruptions might make it more natural. There was little description but it went with the style so I'm not complaining too much. Also, the ending was much stronger than the beginning. While this is good in how it satisfies readers, it might go a little extreme. A stronger beginning would help set the bar higher and urge readers to actually /read on/ to the awesome ending.

Now, you almost killed me with the grammar. I'm not including this in the judging criteria, but it should count for /something/... Problems are okay, but this was so severe at times that it interfered with my enjoyment of the story. Once it gets to that point, I've got no choice but to include a note of it here. Watch out for the following:
1. Incomplete sentences. Many independent clauses standing alone as sentences. Bending grammar a bit is fine, but it gets annoying once you start doing it every paragraph...
2. Run-ons.
3. Incorrect usage of ellipses.
4. Tense shifts. These affected the quality of the last bits somewhat.
5. Many, many missing commas. Ruined some of your metaphors right there, esp. the beginning parts.

It was rather awkward at times as a whole. Sentences could've been phrased better. Some parts were overly cliche, but not more so than most vampire stories. Timeline was a bit confusing at times, but that isn't entirely your fault. The weaker writing at times overshadowed the content. I do applaud you for the bending of grammar at times with the speech. It would've been annoying to see opening quotes for every paragraph at Midory's speech, lol, though that is the technical requirement. Some parts weren't nearly as interesting as other parts.

Overall, great approach and content. The technical writing could've been improved upon though.

Analysis of "Rebirth":
The first person present tense caught my attention immediately. You pulled it off very well. Not even Nex or Eddy could've done better. I'm really impressed by that. Use of thoughts were overall powerful. A few unneeded thought tags here and there, but not enough to ruin the pacing. Might wanna watch out 'bout not overdoing the choppiness at times. The descriptions were well-done. Your command of the English language never ceases to impress me. Vividity is wonderful. Flow of sentences is very nice, nothing too awkward to complain about.

The language you chose was delicate and beautiful. However, at times, it got pretty wordy. Ended up like a lot of bulk and ramble that could've been trimmed to highlight the more important things. Also interfered with the interest and pacing.

Grammar is fairly good. You did miss enough commas to take me both hands and maybe even feet to count though. Watch out for that. Comma when joining independent clauses with dependent ones. Comma in phrases like "Soon, I went to..." You seemed to have forgot these rules. =P Not counting it against you, just noting for future reference. Also forgot a few capitalizations in ellipses, but that's not important...

Dialogue was fair. Not amazing--lacked interruptions at times and the usage of speech tags interfered more than helped--but not bad.

The ending was, like MM's, great. Leaves a very upfront and easy-to-relate-to theme. A bit more subtly is nice, but the blatant manner is good in how any common person can understand. And that's the majority of the audience: common people.

My biggest objection to this story isn't the writing itself. It's the technical storyline. With the topic, you could've done a more sophisticated, unique, and deep story. That's where this falls short. Epicness. Depth. Individuality. Your writing is lovely, but the innovation wasn't good enough to support it. While its down-to-earth-ness is nice in its right, it seems to be lacking in the surreal beauty that characterizes the writing of a more mature stage. Most people don't read just to look at nice language. They want content that's just as great. Your story is good, but it seems somewhat cliche. Approach to the subject matter could've been better. Some parts (like the memory) carried the right amount of impact and nostalgia. Other parts couldn't quite match up.

Overall, I'm saying the opposite of what I said to MM. Wonderful writing, could've done a better job at the technical story.

Comparison of the two:

Storyline strength is taken by MM. Technical writing is better in Jer's story. Very distinctive styles each and hard to compare. A very tough choice for me. MM wrote in exposition/retell and Jer in on-the-spot showing. Therefore, there's no way for me to judge which had the stronger narrative voice; you were practically opposite ends of the spectrum.

If I had been judging who is overall a better writer, I would've gone with Jer. Her story had more room to showcase the many aspects of writing, touching on things MM's didn't touch. However, for the purposes of this competition, I'm looking at the merit of this particular story.

The breaking point here is depth. I feel that MM had quite a bit more of that. Fitted in with the subtly he used. Shows strength not only as a writer but as a storyteller and someone who really gets one to think and remember this story. Therefore, though this is one insane thing to decide on, I am currently favouring MM slightly. Eukara and Clyde can obviously convince me outta this if they think differently since this is a /very/ slight favouring. Very tough choice here.

< Message edited by Firefly -- 7/21/2008 13:40:15 >
AQ  Post #: 22
7/21/2008 17:19:37   
Clyde
Legendary Artist!


*scretches, then yawns* Alright let's get this thing over with.

My Name is Midory


- Pros
  • The beginning, IMO, started off pretty good. Though it was something you'd usually see in some type of movies it was still pretty good. :P Well worked out and used for this kind of story.
  • The part about Midory starting to become someone else was interesting. Including the part about her wanting to see the eyes once again.
  • Nice exuction of plot MM. The flow was nearly flawless.
  • Very subtle.

    - Cons
  • As I said this sounds like a movie or a book I've seen before, but I just don't know which.
  • This was way to short, it needs to be longer for it's awesomeness.
  • You've kind of left out some information, unless you did that on purpose to add more mystery?
  • You didn't describe Midory at all: looks, apperance, attitude, etc. I think somewhere in the story I lost Midory's gender. O.o
  • Though it was subtle you kind of made things too apparent. By the time I got to the 20 different doctors part I could already tell he/she was a vampire.



    Rebirth


    - Pros
  • The beginning itself sounds almost poetic. Nice.
  • I enjoyed how you introduced the main character, Kurai.
  • Oddly I liked how you decided to end it, it seemed appropiate to the flow.
  • Nice use of wording.
  • I liked how you showed her off as vampire because at first I thought she was a ghost. >_>

    - Cons
  • Like MM you didn't even describe the character's apperance(unless i missed it, if so slap me xD)
  • The way the story worked it almost seemed like the flow was choppy and stopped randomly.
  • When it got to the part with the flash back of Kurai's past, I sort of thought she was either a little kid or a pet. So a bit more ellaboration would've been nice.



    Over-all


    I liked both of your stories and enjoyed them. You both expressed/introduced the fact your main characters were vampires very differently. Jer brought it up at the beginning which was nice and it gave us an idea of Kurai though MM made slight hints towards it until the end. Though one thing that made upset was that both of you didn't even describe your character besides the fact that they were vampires.

    You both had your strong points and your weak points. Though both of you are excellent writers at this kind of stuff. Sooo I'm going to have to give this one to Jerenda. I thought her story was very unique and well worked despite the choppy flow.

    < Message edited by Clyde E. -- 7/21/2008 17:24:04 >
  • Post #: 23
    7/22/2008 11:23:40   
    Eukara Vox
    Legendary AdventureGuide!


    I have finished both stories, just so you know. And I am typing up my comments outside of L&L first I have come across a bump in writing this up.

    In other words, for some reason, I can't. The words come, I write them down and then hate the way it is stated. Trust me, my opinion has been formed. I know which story I favor and why. I know what I like of each story and what I think needs improvement. But each time I start typing up my assessments, analysis and comparisons...the words disappear.

    Forgive me Jerenda and Mafio. I am unsure as to what is wrong. I can guarantee you it has nothing to do with choosing among friends or fear of hurting feelings by my choice. The words simply refuse to be written.

    I am trying as hard as I can. I know you guys want this over with.


    I apologise for not posting yet...unexpected bumps in getting prepared for camp has hit me hard and I have not been around a lot. I will get this done tonight. Forgive me MM.



    < Message edited by Eukara -- 7/24/2008 18:12:07 >
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 24
    7/25/2008 3:01:08   
    Eukara Vox
    Legendary AdventureGuide!


    Alright, here is what I came up with.

    When reading My Name is Midory, I found myself really getting into the story from the beginning. I mean, to start out with telling me that I shouldn't be interesting only makes me want to read on. Because I now want to prove the narrator wrong. Then, I am thrust into a slight revelation about this person's character. Enough to see that whatever was about to happen will be interesting indeed based on this character's life experiences.

    The description of the alley caught my attention. I was told that it wasn't a pleasant place, but it was beyond unpleasant. To me, I wouldn't use the place, even to shave 30 minutes off my walk. So now I am leaning into the screen because I KNOW something is going to happen.

    Then nothing, I lean back and then I am face to face with those eyes. The description of what the person goes through is interesting. The all encompassing grey, the collapse...I loved that part.

    The experience of transformation was very good. Enough detail to get me through and tell me what was going on without boring me to tears. And the Van Hellsing reference was just plain funny, despite the severity of the situation. And I actually, as I giggled, pictured the narrator snickering at the memory.

    The experiences afterwards regarding the completed change were good. Just like the Van Hellsing reference, the blood sausage was a brief respite from seriousness that was perfectly timed.

    The confrontation had an interesting spin on it. The total lack of emotion on Midory's part was interesting to say the least. I would have expected most writers to have her upset, curious, explosive...something emotional. But you didn't. She was disappointed, yeah, but well, that isn't the typical reaction. And this made me love this scene in the alley. The decline of her narrative in the end was very well done. Her death, simple as her reaction, conversion and outlook.

    Rebirth

    It was intriguing to read about someone who is dead trying to figure out what was going on. The way that Kurai worked her way down from mind to body, trying to discover what felt out of place was a journey I don't care to have to experience. I mean, having to realize things aren't working or not there, trying to remember stuff you know you should know...You captured the mood very well. The progress is logical, as I imagine I would try to get my mind to work before anything else.

    The floorboards part was funny. Adding that was a very good idea, such simple things delight Kurai in this state, that it makes you wonder how she is going to deal with knowing that she was dead.

    I love the thoughts that Kurai have. They are so realistic. Her attitude and personality flows through these additions, giving a small picture of her as a living person. Since that is the only characterization available to you, you could only work with so much. But I think I got a good picture of Kurai in living flesh.

    I felt some emotion towards the mother and Kurai when Kurai was trying to get up. It was a sad scene and the memory was a good touch. The ending shows just how much Kurai belonged to the guy that intruded upon the scene. Her concern was truly on him and not her mother or really herself. The alst scene, he leaving, was the last time she will ever feel humanity again.




    Now, for my decision. Both stories were well written. And interestingly, both had similarities that played intricate roles. And I did enjoy reading them both, because of perspective and subject matter.

    MM may have had grammar issues, but really, his depth, characterization, mood and emotion in Midory greatly outweighed the technical/mechanical flaws. His writing drew me in and I was able to become Midory, walk with her and think with her. By the end, I made the decision to stay in the sunlight as much as she did. Becoming a part of the story is important to me as a reader.

    Jerenda's work was well written from a technical viewpoint. I found very few errors. But, I could not put myself in Kurai's place. I couldn't connect to her, become her. I loved the walk through of Kurai waking up and was the best part of the story. It was there that I was close to connecting to her, if only because of her attitude.

    Like I said, both stories were good stories. And I enjoyed both. But, MM has my vote.

    < Message edited by Eukara -- 7/25/2008 3:05:28 >
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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