RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much?


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11/8/2008 1:18:27

Firefly
Lore-ian

/me bites Leo

Psst, that was an uber-spoiler, Jer! (I personally don't mind, since I've heard enough talking and and comments about it that I'm already thoroughly spoiled).

I simply would like to point out that disliking murderous vampire babies is subjective. I mean, you can't really say it's a bad book 'cause you don't like murderous vampire babies. I don't see how that's a bad thing other than personal choice. I don't think an author doing what is his/her creative right is a reason to deem something bad.

But this is now deteriorating into the morals of writers and readers, so...

_____________________________

AQ	Post #: 26

11/8/2008 15:48:33

Sanguine
Member

I refused to read the books after I found a note of one of my classmates that tried to convince one of her friends that she really was a vampire. It was no joke, except to me that is and to everyone I showed the note to (a.k.a. those who don't think themselves as vampires).

Also my television production teacher wears a Twilight shirt everyday. It's gotten to the point where it's really kind of sad. She even put posters of the movie throughout the room we broadcast in.

Post #: 27

11/8/2008 22:21:21

mastin2
Member

Jerenda, you are misinformed. That is NOT an accurate description of what happened in the last book. I'd say what really happened, but then I really WOULD get killed by those who haven't read that far. Don't believe everything you hear. I can't say what's right and what's horribly wrong with what you were told, but needless to say, it isn't like that. It has a much better ending, in my opinion.

Warning: Spoiler below doesn't tell about any event in the book, but it does tell what kind of ending the saga has, which is spoilerish to some.

spoiler:

If it was anything BUT a completely happy ending, guess what? I wouldn't have been cheered up by the ending and inspired to keep on writing. If it had anything but a happy ending, it'd be the OPPOSITE; I doubt I'd be writing even now.

That should give you an idea of how wrong you are, dare you read the spoiler.

Off-topic: I'm getting creeped out how 100% of the time I view this topic, there's a Twilight Quiz below...

Post #: 28

11/8/2008 22:35:33

Firefly
Lore-ian

Mastin... I don't think Jer means that

spoiler:

It's a sad ending/it's how it ends.

I think she's just saying it's one of the happenings in Breaking Dawn.

AQ	Post #: 29

11/8/2008 22:48:41

mastin2
Member

...Not the way she described it, it isn't. That's not the Breaking Dawn I read. Not at all.

Post #: 30

11/12/2008 20:34:36

2k2ewyn
Member

I'm actually a fan of Twilight, but I would be a much more involved fan if the fan community wasn't so obsessed with Twilight, and if they could just shut up about Twilight for at least one day!

Post #: 31

11/12/2008 20:47:03

Argeus the Paladin
Member

@ Jer: I read the synopsis yesterday via Wikipedia, and what I saw confirmed two things:

- The ending wasn't sad at all, it was rather the "They live happily ever after" type.
- In terms of word count, the Twilight series could match RotTK. However, in terms of plot summary:

+ The plot of Twilight was summed up in roughly 500 words.
+ The plot of RotTK needed around 4-5000 words to fully summarize so that people could understand what is going on.

Kind of explain why many girls are very obsessed with Twillight, and RotTK appeals mainly to middle-aged/older audience.

BTW, in terms of raw power, I think Edward Cullen = Adrian Farenheight Tepes AKA Alucard AKA Genya Arikado.

DF	Post #: 32

11/12/2008 20:57:38

Firefly
Lore-ian

2k2ewyn makes a very good point, lol.

Hey, there are many guys who like Twilight--this is something I can confirm. And don't phrase it like that, Argeus. It's like you're saying the female population is simple-minded. <_<

To attain any amount of love for Twilight, imo, you have to read it. It has a sort of charm in the writing. The plot is nothing spectacular in synopsis form. But the actual book has /something/. I seriously can't explain what this something is. I'll just call it the X-factor, something that allows a book to reach out to its audience and make them disregard technicalities. It's highly subjective, of course, but a book with said "charm" is one that can wow greater amounts of people into liking it subjectively.

AQ	Post #: 33

11/15/2008 21:50:55

jerenda
Member

Rawr! I know it was a "they live happily ever after" ending. I happen to hate cheesy "happily ever after" endings. Especially the way Meyer apperantly wrote it, magically fixing everything. I have a problem with the murderous vampire baby that she used to reach her cheesy "happily ever after" ending.

What is RotTK? Anyways, word count is unimportant in determining the excellence or horribleness of a book. There are extremely effective short stories and really awful seven-book series. I shall go with Flight's description of why so many people love Twilight. It makes sense.

On the other hand, you're right, Mastin. There really is a Twilight quiz below... *shivers*

Post #: 34

11/15/2008 22:47:29

~Shade~
Member

I've just recently read Twilight (this thread actually inspired me to go buy a cheap, $7 copy of it), and I didn't mind it that much.

Meyer's characters are... well, they're not BAD, really, but a bit unoriginal. Total godmodder guy meets total bookish, nerd girl? Come on. The book was actually pretty good, but the main characters seemed a bit like cardboard cutouts. Did anyone else notice how Meyer uses the same phrases over and over and over again to describe Edward? Especially his facial expressions... However, I'm getting off topic.

Good points. Well, the plot was interesting. I liked all the bits of vampire lore, and I especially liked Edward's family. For some odd reason, I never liked Jacob. At all. Weird. Anyways, there are quite a few interesting descriptions in the book, especially, again, about Edward. I never have been, and never will be, a teenage girl, but I am a teenage boy, and I can kinda sorta relate to Bella's feelings for Edward, which seem pretty realistic for the most part.

[/post]

~Shade~

Post #: 35

11/16/2008 12:02:37

Firefly
Lore-ian

@Jer
Romance of the Three Kingdoms. Chinese historical novels based on true facts. Powerful complex storyline and it's, well, very real--if you manage to find a copy that isn't in Chinese, lol.

@Shade
Yes, she /does/ use the same descriptions of Edward over and over at times... The crooked smile, anyone? Though, there were a few good descriptions, like when they were in the meadow in the sunlight.

Rofl at the "never will be a teenage girl" part. =P

And I didn't like Jacob either, if that makes you feel less strange. Granted, I've only read the first book, but my character-liking-feelings are hard to change unless the characters a) has something really bad happen to them (eg. death) or b) their personality up to that point was all pretense and their true self is revealed. These are usually the only two things that'll make me love a character I didn't love for more than 3/4 chapters.

AQ	Post #: 36

5/23/2009 15:16:35

Joakim the mechanic
Member

I don't like romance in general, and sparkling godmodded vampires doesn't really help the cause

that's why I don't like twilight

AQ	Post #: 37

5/24/2009 19:01:14

marvin_the_robot
Member

Because everyone loooves haters xD

It's the whole "males are supposed to hate Twilight and if you like it, you're gay" thing. Or, that's how it is at my school. I don't particularly like it or hate it. I recognize that many people think it's a good book; I can't dispute or change their opinions. It has an itneresting concept, but the delivery is atrocious. Her writing just isn't all that great. Sure, put the plot in the hands of a competent writer and you've got a decent, possibly great book, but otherwise it's just a waste of paper.

Descriptions are dull and lifeless, characters such as Bella or Edward are perfect little flowers in a world of flawed and genuinely interesting characters, the dialouge is repetetive and somewhat creepy (not witches and bats scary, more like child rapist creepy). It's an average read, but nothing special in my eyes among the sea of romance/vampire novels.

_____________________________

DF	Post #: 38

5/25/2009 12:09:03

Xirminator
Member

I've read all of the Twilight books; I have enjoyed them all, regardless of their flaws.

In the matter of technical writing, I can't really say much since I'm not even published. The story sometimes drags; it seems to me that the author occasionally provides unnecessary details which stop the story moving.

The relationship between Edward and Bella is a bit convenient, I would say. There's no reason pointed out why Edward loves Bella, except that he can't read their mind. Similarly, Bella loves him because he's 'beautiful' and nothing else. The fact that they're extremely dependent on each based on solely these reasons is a bit hollow. The best parts in their relationship were the times they argued. As a reader I was most interested in 'how they would resolve the problem' rather than 'oh, more happily ever after'.

A few of the other characters, especially the Cullen family, were quite good and interesting. Some of them seemed much, much better than Edward and Bella. My favorite, in fact, was mentioned in the last book, Breaking Dawn: the vampire called Garrett. The villains that are portrayed aren't given much time to shine. The Volturi, in fact, seemed like the stereotypical power-hungry, potential-threat-eliminating dictators. Aro, the vampire who leads is apparently indisputable, even by more aggressive vampires with superior abilities to his. No reason at all is given to why everyone bows to him, and I think that a good character was wasted here.

Jacob was an interesting character, in that he had flaws and was aware of them. However, certain scenes seemed to be perfectly set up by the author to raise tension between him and Edward. The whole Bella-Jacob relationship, in my opinion, is a bit weird and contrived.

The books themselves each cook up a problem that has to be overcome by the end, driving the story forward. The central theme in the saga, in my opinion, is not that Bella ends up with Edward. Rather, I think it is the difference between them - which is that Edward is a vampire and she's human. The story's culmination should have been Bella turning into a vampire, but, when she does that, the story is still forced to drag on (their child, and the Volturi). Here, however, it ceases to be about Edward and Bella - since they are now completely together - but about the coming Volturi.

Although the Volturi's power was 'hyped up' in the books, the end was unsatisfying, since the small force gathered by the Cullens obviously has all it needs. Therefore, when they meet, we know how things are going to turn out.

I won't say that the Twilight is good or bad. All I can say is that it is an indulgent story, which despite its flaws will manage to satisfy most people.

< Message edited by Xirminator -- 5/25/2009 12:16:01 >

Post #: 39

7/1/2009 12:18:39

Arzamol
Member

Everyone in my school seems to love it, yet when I check the forums...

DF	Post #: 40

7/1/2009 16:04:30

Recar Dragonlance
Member

She uses the word "impossible" waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much. Other than that, it's a good story. It kept me interested and Bella is funny.

I don't know if anyone else has said this (the comments were so big they hurt my eyes) but when things get too famous, there are some people who think they are super-cool to hate it. I don't see why they want to hate it so much. Same thing happens with Miley Cirus.

It's not amazing, but it's not terrible.

DF	Post #: 41

7/1/2009 16:37:49

Smalls
Member

I enjoy Twilight
it's not the "omg best book in teh world el oh el!!!111!!eleven!!1" so many people put it out to be, but I'm sorry I have major problems with the book like
1) Edward, He is annoying, he is a perfect man, which there isn't, he has no weakness, he's too powerful, he's like godmoded to the extreme
2) Bella's weaknesses, she's too weak, her only strength is her ability for no one to get into her mind, she gets kidnapped, Edward saves her, it's plain, it's generic, it's boring
3) New Moon, I can never say this enough, I HATED New Moon, The plot summed up in a few sentences
spoiler:

"Oh woe is me, Edward's gone, I'm so depressed, oh look Jacob *spends time with Jacob*. I'm gonna do something totally dumb *jumps off cliff*. Oh no Edward thinks I'm dead, I need to go stop him before he kills himself, yayy the day is saved
It made me want to throw up, I hated New Moon, it was so incredibly bad
Now, don't get me wrong, I like the book and stuff...But those are the parts about it I can't stand, sure I can read it, sure I'll enjoy it from time to time, but it's nowhere near the best book out there
~Bigm

< Message edited by Smalls -- 7/1/2009 16:40:46 >

DF	Post #: 42

7/1/2009 17:02:36

Arthur The Brave One
Member

I´ve read a fair bit of twilight, and it wasn´t that awful. Especially since I probably read the worst book in the universe a few weeks ago. I didn´t really like twilight though, it was all just too... I dunno.

Post #: 43

7/2/2009 11:33:05

Firefly
Lore-ian

/me claps for Xirmi

So freakin' well said. You took the words right outta my mouth. I agree, totally, on everything you said there. Especially this:

quote:

The best parts in their relationship were the times they argued.

That's the reason I kept laughing for most of the earlier books.

I don't love haters. Perhaps it's because I stay away from the Twilight-hype crowds, but currently, the haters annoy me more than the lovers (haha, bad pun). Because there are people who a) bash the books without even reading them b) bash the books for reasons like "It's romance" c) read the first chapter of the books solely searching for flaws so that they could bash them d) bash the books based on evidence that exists only in the haters' minds (including: Edward is abusive, Jacob is crazy, Bella is under a spell, and a whole bunch of other things that they made up). I'm perfectly fine with criticism of the books, but when the reason doesn't even exist... Sorry, but I just don't get that.

I actually loved New Moon best out of the four books. It's the one with the most conflict, the most tension, the most uncertainty. Twilight lacked a solid plot, Eclipse pulled a real Wallbanger by having

spoiler:

Bella admit that she loves Jacob, except she loved Edward more, cheapening their entire relationship

and Breaking Dawn... I won't even go into all the flaws. Xirmi beat me to it.

AQ	Post #: 44

7/3/2009 17:05:21

Helixi
Member

Smalls: New Moon was my fave, for the simple reason that Edward pixiepire wasn't in it.

Lol, I really like this discussion. Give me more ammunition for my TwiTard teacher, if you pwease! /random stuff.

It has already been stated that Meyer is a mediocre writer. Having been a fan of the book, I can report this is true. Her take on vampires was original, I give her that, but the whole vampire race was reduced to three big covens and maybe twenty small covens and random pairings. Lolwhut?

If you want a good vampire teenage novel, read the House Of Night series. Yes, the main character (Zoe Redbird) gets off with her vampire teacher (Laurent, I think), her vampire lover boy (Eric Night) and her human imprintee (...I forgot). It is a funny, realistic snapshot of teenage life, angst etc. It also has an amazing plot, with her being a strong Chosen Priestess and her five friends representring each of the five elements (Fire, Water, Air, Earth, Spirit.)

But I digress. Apparently popularity=amazing book. A girl in my History class (who shall remain nameless) said exactly this to me. "She got famous, so she must be a good writer." What happened to the classics? They are popular, I know, but nowhere near as popular as Twilight. She also said "Stephanie is an awesome writer and she is obviously better than you." Implying that because I'm not published, I'm a crappy writer. I beg to differ. r0de0b0y's story "Symphony Of Night" has occupied a plastic wallet in my schoolbag for about a week. I gave said manuscript to said girl. Apparently, it is much better than Twilight.

Well, make sense of that piece of crap, L+Lers. :)

Post #: 45

7/3/2009 22:09:18

Firefly
Lore-ian

I disagree with you to an extent Helix. As in, I agree with most of it.

You can't say that Twilight is more popular than the classics. Time tells. Twilight is popular right now, but will it still be a hundred years later? The fact that the classics endured makes them more "popular," in my opinion.

While I agree that not being popular/published doesn't mean you're necessarily doing something wrong, being popular means you did something right. In Meyer's case, that "right" might simply be "cantering to a bunch of love-crazed youngsters." But there's a reason her books sold, and that reason is not blind luck.

Judging writing style is extremely subjective past the basic grammar and syntax. Some people like literary techniques. Some don't. Some like descriptions. Some hate them. Meyer's books are readable, and in that case, I consider that her prose has achieved its purpose: to provide a window to her story.

AQ	Post #: 46

7/3/2009 22:22:38

Junebugsy
Member

I'm mostly angry that Twilight tends to fall into the vampire/werewolf clans cliche, which is so ludicrously overused it doesn't matter if you change the formula in it.

< Message edited by Junebugsy -- 7/3/2009 22:25:20 >

AQ	Post #: 47

7/3/2009 23:16:23

Prator the Legendary
Member

Well, let me think...

I suppose, if I have to be honest, I do not hate Twilight itself (I actually enjoyed reading the book), but I do hate all of the characters on a personal level. So much so that I refused to continue reading after the second book.

Bella is contemptible. Nevermind whether or not her character has actual depth, I just can't get around the fact that she is so overwhelmingly WEAK emotionally. She has just enough of a spine to make you feel really frustrated that she doesn't attempt to ever control her feelings. I keep wondering when she's going to start cutting herself. I know women like that in real life, and I generally either ignore them or try to make them angry on purpose in the hopes that maybe driving them berserk will unleash a little inner strength. Bella is joining Scarlett O'hara and Cattie Brie in the "Generally Useless Female Protagonists" garbage bin. Bella is often accused of being a Mary Sue, but I'd despise her even if that were completely untrue.

Edward loses major points for liking Bella. Besides that, he seems like an okay guy, for a vampire that avoids consuming humans. That said, there's two very serious problems with Ed and all the other vampires in the entire series.

The first is their "over-powered-ness" as mentioned by some other people here. The Vampires are just short of gods in terms of power, given that any one of them basically is superman, minus the ability to fly and with the addition of shiny, reflective skin. Having a superhero as the main character isn't a bad thing, but Ed is NOT the focus of the story. Bella's pathetic emotional issues are. So Ed is left as a ridiculously strong supporting character, essentially a walking Deus Ex Machina, and the same can be said of all the other vampire characters, to some extent.

The second problem with the vampires is directly related to their power: why don't they rule the world? Seriously now, why not? They're immortal. They're almost impossible for any being to kill that isn't also endowed with supernatural powers. They can reproduce an indefinite number of other vampires as long as there are humans to feed on. It seems easy, under the circumstances, for a ruling class of vampires to dominate all of mankind. The second book demonstrated that they ARE organized enough to pull something like that off, if they felt like it... So, what, they're just going to lurk in sewers and at the boundaries of human civilization, eating only the folks that won't be missed, for all of eternity? That would make sense if the vampires were more vulnerable, but as the situation stands, it feels like Meyer has not adequately explained her own setting. I take a similar issue with the later Harry Potter books, but that's another story.

In spite of the potentially cool "werewolf" thing he's got going on, Jacob also loses major points for liking Bella. He loses even more points for declaring a war with the vampires over Bella. When I read that, I felt conflicted. I couldn't decide whether to throw up, burn the book, scream in agony, or just slam my head on my desk. I eventually decided that I'd never read anything by Stephanie Meyer ever again.

Most of the other characters are largely undeveloped, serving primarily as a supporting cast.

If I ever start writing Twilight fanfiction, it will be all about a secret division of the US government that exists only to hunt down and destroy vampires. Actually, that brings to mind a potentially interesting setting; what if you took Twilight to its natural conclusion, and created a world where humanity is continually at war with the powers of the night? Whole countries could be devastated by nuclear weapons unleashed in the hopes of taking out any vampires in their blast radius... Volterra would be the first place to get bombed, naturally...

AQ	Post #: 48

7/3/2009 23:25:00

Abiogenist
Member

Scarlett O'hara a useless female protagonist?
I refuse to listen. >.>

She started like a Bella Swan, that's true, but as the story progressed she became mature, even if her childish believe in love did not grow until the end of the plot. I especially like her tenacity.

Twilight is bleh; Gone With the Wind is two thumbs up!

Post #: 49

7/3/2009 23:38:27

Prator the Legendary
Member

quote:

Scarlett O'hara a useless female protagonist?

Damn right.

Oh, sure, she gets more and more tenacious as she gets older, but she stays almost completely oblivious to everything but her own desires for the entire book. I got pretty damn sick of her ignorance and her lack of empathy after the first few chapters, and she never really improved. Again, WEAK woman.

My standard for character quality is a fairly simple one: if it can be reasonably said about a person that they've got a fair chance of survival in tough circumstances, then they are worthy of some measure of respect. However, if it can be reasonably said that, in a less kindly world, that same person would already be dead as a direct result of one or more character flaws, then they are not worthy of respect. And yes, I do extend this philosophy to people I meet in real life.

Incidentally, Gone with the Wind is another one of those books which I enjoyed reading but hated the cast.

< Message edited by Prator the Legendary -- 7/3/2009 23:40:02 >

AQ	Post #: 50

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