RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much?


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7/26/2009 13:36:27

Firefly
Lore-ian

To be really, really nitpicky, the beauty of Rice's vampires aren't the same thing as Meyer's. Vampires don't automatically become beautiful in the Riceverse. It's simply that some makers/masters choose to make only beautiful children of darkness so that the insult to the divine was that much more prominent. I don't think I can explain it properly without writing an exceedingly long post, but safe to say, if you were ugly as a human, you aren't going to look any better as a vampire. Whereas, vampirism immediately heightens a human's beauty in the Meyerverse.

But yeah, Fal and Khalim are right. Vampires are associated with beauty, except in a darker way than Meyer used. But I still find it funny that people complain about the sparkles and beauty when there are many more important things to complain about. =P

< Message edited by Firefly -- 7/26/2009 13:37:07 >

AQ	Post #: 76

7/26/2009 13:46:33

BadHulk
Member

To be really honest(Some people will prob comment this): I never saw Twillight. Nor readed <,< Forgot that part. My mistake.

< Message edited by BadHulk -- 7/27/2009 6:10:10 >

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AQW

Post #: 77

7/26/2009 14:08:58

Firefly
Lore-ian

Nor I have. I read it.

EDIT: To clarify, I rarely care about movies of the book, regardless of the book's quality. I haven't watched most of the HP movies either, or the aforementioned Interview with the Vampire movie. It's not that I hate movies... I just don't care.

< Message edited by Firefly -- 7/26/2009 14:13:45 >

AQ	Post #: 78

8/1/2009 4:19:04

damani
banned

True. I always manage to compare my Dracula to a Aloyius Pendergast character (think Preston/Child); Edward compares to neither. As far as the fan girls go (and I agree they go way too far), they're really impressed because of how boys our age act. There are not that many impressively handsome, old-cadence talking gentlemen walking around, and that's bound to leave an impression. Add that to the low-self-esteem outbreak in our teens, we've hit the motherload.
:/
I am a fan of Twilight, to some extent, (I do have a couple of t-shirts and a poster) but I'm not running around replacing a fictional character with God.

I leave that to cheerleaders.

Post #: 79

8/5/2009 3:28:10

Fleur Du Mal
Member

Greetings from Vancouver.

As my flight here was quite a long one and I happen to be a complete failure when it comes to sleeping on board, I bought Twilight from the Airport bookstore to keep me entertained.

It did do that, after I got past the very bumpy and awkward start. Many have already stated in this thread that Meyer is a mediocre writer. I noticed that some of this was assumed to be caused by her choice of first person, but that wasn't an issue with me. By the page 12 she had almost killed me with sentences structured Subjective + was + adjective. When Bella first sees the Cullens in the school cafeteria, there's a whole paragraph with sentences beginning with 'They were'

My eyes started to bleed. And no, it the plane's airconditioning didn't cause it. =P Firefly mentioned that she disliked haters going through a book's first pages just to point out errors in writing. Oh boy, how tempting this book makes that... =P

Luckily, as the plot progressed, the writing progressed with it, and I could stop twitching in my seat because of that. I found some pretty delicious words in it, like woolgathering which Bella used about her task inthe PE classes.

Many have also stated here as a minus that the characters are pretty much cut out of cardboard. I have to agree. And I have to thank Firefly and Abiogenist for putting a foot down for Scarlett O'Hara. Because she is feisty and her character gives enough drama to fill a dozen of stories. Not the same I can say about Bella. Maybe I'm saying this only because I cannot relate to her at all, but she doesnt feel like cardboard to me; she feels like /wet/ cardboard in all her dependentness.

Now, the middle part of the book did its job in entertaining me. I'm guessing this was because of those little delicious words here and there, believable dialogue, and easy reading. However, after the scene where Edward and Bella first sit side by side and Edward clutches his fists white, I never sensed any danger. Even the chase felt...predictable, safe, and secure. Carlisle and Edward are godmodded so beyond belief that even the appearance of one -probably-godmodded James hunter-vampire fails to bring in the thrills.

Yet again, it is possible that I'm just hardened by the horror books I've read and the lack of thrills is not Meyer's fault. Hard to say.

Now, if any of you survived past this blabbering I might touch the original question, lol. Why people hate Twilight? Well, I don't hate it. However, the reason for it to be so popular fails me. I do not dislike anything due to its popularity (and I would think it odd if everyone who hates it would hate it because of that). But I might find it very aggravating if I had a bunch of people singing appraisals of Twilight around me, since I don't think it's worth the appraisals, not even close. And maybe this might be the reason to hate it for some. Not because it's popular but because when all the weaknesses against it are listed, it doesn't have the merit to justify the huge amout of cheering around it. For me, it sufficed as one flight's worth of mindless entertainment, nothing more.

DF	Post #: 80

8/5/2009 6:59:01

Sorrowblade XIII
Member

I don't hate Twilight entirely, just certain aspects of how the series was written. I don't take issue with Stephanie Meyers' description of nigh-invulnerable vampires that sparkle in the sunlight - honestly, twists on how her vampires are different from Stoker's Dracula are to be expected. Creative license exists for a reason, and it is a vampire novel series, after all. What I usually call attention to, though, are largely how the book is written. A lot of the books contain the dreaded Purple Prose. Most of it goes into describing how indescribably perfect Edward is in every conceivable way. His eyes alone are sexier than Hallie Berry's and Fabio's lovechild's figure, to say nothing of his lips and generally the rest of him. Bella is almost the textbook definition of a Mary Sue and what to avoid when thinking about using an author avatar; the most attractive guy in the entire friggin' ~~series~~ universe wants her, and she clumsily stumbles her way into a nauseatingly perfect eternity with him. Meyers set up for Bella some vampire newborn drama for a great portion of the entire series, and in just one third of her final book, (Massive spoiler alert!) she blows off her entire continuity so Bella can have vampiric power and beauty without all the requisite angst. Please do not even get me started on the highly anti-climatic ending.

I like Meyers' werewolves, however. They're surprisingly consistent, whereas her vampires tend to be consistently surprising. Her wolves are pretty straightforward; They're the spiritual protectors of a Native American tribe that only come into play when vampires threaten their homelands. And they're technical shape-shifters to boot. Which means they can ignore every werewolf cliche in the book, so to speak. One thing I didn't like about them is the fact that (Massive spoiler alert!) Jacob imprints on an infant. No worries; she'll be all grown up by age seven, so all romantic loose ends are tied securely in one of the most mind-unsafe ways imaginable.

Post #: 81

8/5/2009 9:40:48

Firefly
Lore-ian

Welcome to Canada, Fabula! I hope you enjoy your stay here, even if I don't live in Vancouver and thus cannot greet you...

Meh, I kinda understand Twilight's popularity. The fangirls are a part of it, but there are other appeals. Her writing might not be wonderful, but it's clear and understandable, which is the essence of communication. And I didn't mind the descriptions much, if at all. Twilight's point was to be entertaining, not to be deep. Though the later books got better in the latter regard, with the exception of Breaking Dawn which was just 700 pages of Deus Ex Machina. And though the characters aren't that well-crafted, they're sometimes fairly interesting, especially how Bella and Edward argue. As for "knowing it was going to end happily before it ended," you can pretty much say the same about almost every detective novel.

It's not for everyone, but it is for quite a few someones. And when I think about it, yeah, her werewolf lore is actually quite interesting, but the imprinting was just garbage, even if she did a pretty good job at portraying it as not-garbage (but ultimately, despite her very good attempt at justifying it, I wasn't too happy with the imprinting, even if I wasn't sickened by it).

AQ	Post #: 82

8/5/2009 22:09:00

illusion99
Member

well.. i've read the twilight saga and the 1st book was really good but the seconds okay just that Bella's too whinny and seriously wants to make you tear the book apart.... in the 2nd book i kinda like it when Jasper was gonna kill Bella >.>
3rd and 4th are seriously too corny >.> Bella gave birth to a Dhampir....Renesmee whose name is seriously weird and no mother would even wanna name their baby's that name....but some people like vamps for their dark beauty...but meyer's vamps....sparkling under the sun?! man they probably should be changed into angels or something cuz of the description her vamps are more like celestial being instead of dark which is seriously wrong for a vamp story.

< Message edited by illusion99 -- 8/5/2009 22:11:38 >

Post #: 83

8/5/2009 23:14:02

YukiKitty
Member

Honestly? I have very few bones to pick with this series now that I've reread. Yes....even the sparkly vampires. Yah, seriously.

Why?

Meyer wrote it to entertain and to get a story out, *her* story even if some say otherwise. It's easy reading for those nights when I seem to be eternally plagued by insomnia. (That can be a good quality for me. Not so "OMG, I can't put this book down!" but not so "OMG, this is sooooooooo boring. Why didn't I pick out another book? Now I'll be too bored for sleep.") Alice is actually very entertaining, even though we don't see her as often as I'd like.

I do have one bone to pick. Bella's whining.

Bella whines incessantly. In New Moon, I wanted nothing more than to smack her so that she'd get over herself. I guess teenage girls do have a tendency to whine though....Heck, I probably just whined in my opinion on Bella's whining. ^^;

So, in the spirit of acceptable late night reading, I've managed to forgive Meyer--even for the sparkly vampires.

Post #: 84

8/7/2009 1:26:27

Fleur Du Mal
Member

Thanks for the welcome, Firefly! As it happens, I'm currently less than 100 km away from Forks as the vampire flies, although still in Canada, and I see no rain. Only sparkling sea whilst the sun was still up. =P

In this thread, I read a lot about Meyer's take on werewolves being on the interesting side. However, in Twilight, understood as the first book and not the whole series, werewolves are only hinted at and Jacob remains very much of a superficially described supporting character, so I can't really comment on that. 'cause I've only read the first one and I probably won't touch the sequels.

quote:

original:Firefly
As for "knowing it was going to end happily before it ended," you can pretty much say the same about almost every detective novel.

outch, I'm afraid that I worded myself badly there. It's not /only/ the fact that I can guess they are going to be safe and how the chase is going to end, but:

quote:

original:fabula
However, after the scene where Edward and Bella first sit side by side and Edward clutches his fists white, I never sensed any danger. Even the chase felt...predictable, safe, and secure.

Well, Renee could've died. Something could've happened to the other vampires. James might have succeeded in some other level, the pacing could've been done otherwise, showing something else than Bella whining in the hotel room... A bunch of Hollywood movies have predictable endings, but I still can bite my nails while the protagonist steps into a pitch-black room...

***
I'm officially putting Da Vinci Code to my reading list. Both my mother (she's a DaVinci-hater =P) and a friend of mine have heavily criticized that novel, and few others have told it's /sorta/ entertaining, nothing more, so I'm currently under the impression that it is another phenomenon where the popularity exceeds the merit. However, no one is asking here why people hate the Da Vinci code that much. And I wonder, is the reason behind that answered as soon as Argeus's original question no 2 is answered:

quote:

"Are all stories whose demographic market segment is teenagers prone to such polarization?"

If popularity were the reason to hate something, wouldn't Da Vinci make the top of the list? Is it not on the list because it has a different target audience?

DF	Post #: 85

8/7/2009 11:09:21

Firefly
Lore-ian

Who said Da Vinci Code doesn't get criticized? I'm seeing a lot of bad comments on TV tropes (which probably doesn't mean much), up to and including "most people I know read the book just to find out how many mistakes there were" (paraphrasing). However, there's an entire Wikipedia article on the mistakes/inconsistencies of Da Vinci Code, which /does/ mean something.

Meh, frankly, I don't get why everyone complains about New Moon. It was my favourite of the four, because the worst stuff happened--even if most of the conflict was internal, there was quite a lot of it. It had the most solid plot. And it makes me wonder why people complain about the lack of conflict on Twilight only to hate New Moon for having conflict (not gearing this at anyone here). Nothing has changed my view of Twilight being flawed, but less flawed than the "It's popular so it sucks" people makes it out to be.

I'd disagree that there was less tension in Twilight than in Hollywood movies, but considering that I hate most movies enough to write poetry bashing them...

AQ	Post #: 86

8/8/2009 17:54:37

Angel of Grief
Member

Why do people hate Twilight so much?

Well, its pretty simple. All of the grammar in the first book was horrible, the characters were too cliche (even the names were relatively common), and Bella had the personality of a rice cake. The ending was pretty predictable as well, but i had wondered why he (Edward) hadn't just snapped her in half already. the second book, New Moon, was my favorite of the four (yes, sadly, I'm one of those people that read the entire series). Reasons? There was little to no Edward present in the middle of the book. The begining, however, i hated as well. Did Meyer really need to waste five pages of paper with the words of the months going by? No, and it was a huge waste of paper. Also, i find it extremely pathetic that Bella was that clingy to Edward. Seriously, no girl i know would cry for five months straight after her sparkly boyfriend left. The only other couple that I know of that fell in love THAT quickly was Romeo and Juliet. And we all know how that ended up. The whole Jacob-werewolf thing was pretty predictable, considering the stories that he had told Bella in the first book....They even gave Jacob's-werewolf-ism away in the first movie. I will quote Edward here.... "I leave you alone for thirty seconds, and the wolves descend." He had said that right after Jacob had asked for a talk alone with Bella, at prom. Well, as much as I liked New Moon, the movie will suck just as bad as the first one. I mean, come on, am I the only one that realized the inconsistencies? The black vampire (not trying to be racist, i forgot his name...) and Bella were in her and Edward's clearing when they wre talking. In the movie (based on the previews so far) they were right outside Jacob's house. Also, Jacob "phased" right in front of Bella (oh noez! there goes another quarter of the book where they have the mystery!), thus rendering her worry over why he is "sick" useless.
As for the book "Eclipse" i cannot remember a single thing about it, so i won't bother going over it.
The last book in the series so far, "Breaking Dawn", was a little better than Twilight, but still sucked IMHO. It had a very anti-climactic (grammar?) ending, oh look! they lived happily ever after. The end. No, very bad idea on Meyer's part. And the whole "imprinting" thing is just a lame excuse to cover up Jacob's pedophilia in my opinion. No matter how Meyer tries to justify that, it will fail. Jacobs a pedophile. True love? With a baby? Sounds like a cult if you ask me. Oh wow. I believe this is my longest post ever, on any forums. I hope you all actually decided to read my little rant. As a conclusion, this IS why people hate Twilight so much (and its sequels).

~AoG, your "ranty" little Angel.

Post #: 87

8/10/2009 1:13:22

Fleur Du Mal
Member

About the Da Vinci code, I didn't say it wouldn't get critized, I just wondered why I have failed to see a reaction of hate towards it, equal to Twilight. Yes, it gets heavily critized, but that is still different from hating it; even more different from hating without reading. Maybe I haven't just stumbled to the wrong forums, but I haven't seen comments in the tone: "I /heard/ the Da Vinci Code has an Englishman who passionately loves tea. That's soo stereotypical and I'm soo hating the book for it." Yes, my mom hates (or should I say strongly dislikes...) the book, but she read it first before she formed her opinion. On the other side, I've seen plenty of declarations of hate/contempt towards Twilight "because I /heard/ it has sparkling vampires in it."

@Angel of Grief:
I'm wondering about something you wrote:

quote:

Seriously, no girl i know would cry for five months straight after her sparkly boyfriend left.

Are you saying that Meyer failed to portray Bella's and Edward's connection to be strong enough so that this reaction didn't feel plausible? Because, imo, fiction sometimes describes characters whose reactions are beyond the average. It's the author's task to make them feel logical, realistic and plausible in the book's realm. I don't think the realism of any fictious realm should be judged against the people we readers know in our real lives.

DF	Post #: 88

8/11/2009 18:54:33

Angel of Grief
Member

True enough...disregard that then ^^

but still >>

Post #: 89

8/11/2009 19:48:07

not steve
Member

I don't know what you are talking about, everyone I know loves twilight. It was hard to type that with a stright face. XD In all seriousness it's probably because girls get obsessed with Edward and guys generaly don't like other guys who girls find more appealing than them. I have never read the books but am told they are poorly writen and over-emotional. I am not sure weather I belive that or not.

And by the way Falerin, I have always known you were well read but do you just absorb books? Is there anything you don't know enough about to write a statement begining with "Acctualy" concering it? XD

And I appologize for the spelling in this post, I am on a computor without a check or microsoft word.

Post #: 90

8/16/2009 17:31:18

Maureu
Member

I for one, do hate Twilight.
I've both read the book and seen the movie, and I think the movie was a complete butchery of a book that wasn't very good. It was okay, not my kind of book, etc, but it was readable.
Not only was the movie off from the book, but the fact that the stereotypical Twilight fan seems to be the only breed out there really gets to me. It seems to me as though no one of their kind sees any flaws in Twilight, and doesn't even look at it logically enough to consider it's content. I mean, I to am prone to the occasional fan-girl spree, but Twilight fans just go to far. Not saying that there are no sane Twilight fans out there, but I know none and can't stand being around them. I even have a friend who went to see the movie and one of the fans in the front row stood up and screamed "OH MY GOD IT'S THE MEADOW!!!" during the film. That same friend knows girls who have seen the movie at least 14 times. Really, that's just too far.
All the hype Twilight gets is in my opinion undeserving, for both book and film.

< Message edited by Maureu -- 8/16/2009 17:32:32 >

Post #: 91

8/17/2009 18:51:45

Tempestas
Member

It's just.. Terrible. I read the first one for a dare and just about carved my soul out with a rusty spoon.

AQ	Post #: 92

8/17/2009 20:38:09

Argeus the Paladin
Member

quote:

Well, its pretty simple. All of the grammar in the first book was horrible, the characters were too cliche (even the names were relatively common), and Bella had the personality of a rice cake.

If only Ricobabie were still around to respond to that comment...

DF	Post #: 93

8/17/2009 20:55:41

Darth Torin
Member

well, i have yet to see a sane twilighter fangirl. Not to mention that one of them is just rude and trashes my Star Wars fanboysim

and how another was pretty much her friend's slave for a little while just so she could read the twilght book her friend had. if thats what the fans are like, im not sure i wanna risk becoming one...

Post #: 94

8/19/2009 18:04:39

Firefly
Lore-ian

The Twilight ads in the bottom of the page... they're causing my eyes to bleeeeed!

Umm, are we broadening the discussion to include the movie, or is it still the book? (Argeus makes the calls, being the thread starter). 'cause I'd simply like everyone to know that whatever happens in the movie (no matter how bad it is or isn't) isn't Meyer's fault. She has no control whatsoever. Unless you wanna blame her for selling the movie rights to begin with, but if you regret that decision of hers, chances are she regrets it ten times more...

Not sure if I responded to this already, but the comment "even the names were relatively common"--they had to be. In fact, if they weren't, I'd be protesting. Since it's set on earth, and the characters live in a normal naming society, giving them exotic names like Xanocite and Arengulus (yes, I made those up on the spot) would be ridiculous. Renesmee is your mileage may vary though--but hating the book because Bella isn't the best namer in the world is a little weird anyways.

AQ	Post #: 95

8/20/2009 9:36:45

Albino Slug
Member

I'm going to say this.

i tried reading the book, but couldn't. It's just not my style.

I don't hate the book, I hate the extremist fans.

For someone like me, who reads Ayn Rand, Terry Pratchett, Chaim Potok, and Dostoevsky, Twilight does come off as very badly written in comparison.

And finally, people don't like some books because they just don't.

Post #: 96

8/29/2009 19:37:53

alexmacf
Member

quote:

I don't particularly mind the book itself, I'm just sick of hearing about Edward.

Amen.

quote:

It made me want to throw up, I hated New Moon, it was so incredibly bad

I pretend the end and the following two books never happened when I think about them. =P Other than the end, it was a very good "finding oneself" and/or "recovering from emotional trauma" book.

quote:

It has already been stated that Meyer is a mediocre writer. Having been a fan of the book, I can report this is true. Her take on vampires was original, I give her that, but the whole vampire race was reduced to three big covens and maybe twenty small covens and random pairings. Lolwhut?

Not quite. There's implied to be loads more small covens.

quote:

Well, its pretty simple. All of the grammar in the first book was horrible, the characters were too cliche (even the names were relatively common), and Bella had the personality of a rice cake.

Rice cakes can actually be quite interesting.... ;D

I took my friends' recommendations that I read it with a shaker of salt, as we tend to like different things, and found it interesting on its own merits. The hype, however, was what really detracted from my liking of it. That, and the final book, which even die-hard fangirls found to be annoying.

< Message edited by alexmacf -- 8/29/2009 19:57:14 >

Post #: 97

9/7/2009 6:24:07

Xirminator
Member

The book is readable, although sometimes in the way of a fingernail dragging across a gritty plank of wood. It's not really bad, but it isn't good either. I made myself read the whole series in a few days and it got me through a long period of downloading several gigabytes from the Playstation network (which takes a long time.) I never stopped saying I was bored.

Many of the Twilight-haters actually hate the fans.

I don't hate the fans. I plug my ears when hysterical screams of 'Edward' are all over the place, but that's about it.

The book itself is passable (although some scenes are conveniently set to bring conflict between Jacob and Edward, some characters have no personality or justification, the best characters are ignored, ect ect.)

Post #: 98

9/16/2009 20:50:51

Trick
Member

While there are people who really hate the book, there are also people that really love the book. But yeah, I don't know why it's such a big deal. I mean, come on, it's just a book, people.

AQW

Post #: 99

9/25/2009 1:59:15

Death_On_A_Stick
Member

i didnt much like this book just for the writing style,its not my style(pun very much intended)
and no offense to any of the fans its purly their opinion not mine

< Message edited by Death_On_A_Stick -- 9/25/2009 2:00:40 >

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DF	Post #: 100

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