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RE: Allowing discussions of suggestions.

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7/17/2011 2:26:51   
goldslayer1
Member

@stray cat
saying no to this isn't going to be good.
last time the ED forum rules change because players were posting negative thoughts about the game (meaning the bad side of things) their post were deleted and the players kept getting warnings. i myself got 3 warnings in 1 single day because an AK made a mistake and i was never apologized for that.
at some point players will get angry and just start posting negative things towards the aks and mods for deleting suggestions and its just going to cause another player vs ak/mod war on the forums.

something has to be done about discussing suggestions.
because as the developers said, most of their release came from ideas and suggestions of the players.
and while they weren't always perfect release they could have been better if players were allowed to discuss the idea/suggestion and give some way to improve it. this is why release sometimes come out crooked because the players aren't allowed to discuss the suggestions others want to make. because 1 players likes the idea but another would like something else to be added or changed.

so not only will it help the forums and the players AND the ak/mods but it will also help the devs when they come by to check for ideas on the forums.
AQW Epic  Post #: 26
7/17/2011 3:49:26   
Stray Cat
The kitty
without a name


 I think you're misunderstanding me. I was addressing Hun Kingq's mistaken belief that the reason the aforementioned threads were deleted was due to the fact that they were good suggestions which the staff saw fit to censor, rather than due to current rules and policies. The rest of my post was a request to keep things constructive and up-to-date. I don't have the authority to say no, but as Circe has already said the following, I merely ask that you build on from there.
quote:

I'm going to be gone for a few weeks for work. When I come back, I'll take a look at this thread (and any others) and talk to my admins and Cinderella to see what we can do.
Post #: 27
7/17/2011 5:35:36   
goldslayer1
Member

@stray cat
well if its ideas u want about making this work then im sure there are plenty of players including myself on giving u ideas on how we can make this work for everyone.
AQW Epic  Post #: 28
7/17/2011 11:33:08   
Hun Kingq
Member

If you really take a look at over 90% of the posts in the General Discussion forum it is suggestions from players so if suggestions can not be made in the general discussion forum then everysingle one of those threads should be deleted based on the rules even the threads about design notes because players made suggestion in those. "Ideas for the Tact Mercs" was deleted and I was never told "Ideas for Cyber Hunters" I was told it was being deleted and since you are not allowed to create discussion in suggestions I created those so players could put their ideas and we could discuss those ideas and it could be done every update.

Those two posts been up for more than a week then all of a sudden they got deleted yesterday indicating that some player thought those ideas was too good and might be implimented, sent a message to a mod and then poof they disappeared.

Since the mods are talking about abiding by the rules then delete all threads in General Discussion, make a clean slate, and make it clear that no suggestions is to be posted in this area.
Epic  Post #: 29
7/17/2011 15:59:35   
Everest
Moving Mountains
quote:

at some point players will get angry and just start posting negative things towards the aks and mods for deleting suggestions and its just going to cause another player vs ak/mod war on the forums.


Arguments like this will hold absolutely no water with the forum staff. And I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe you meant this matter-of-factly rather than as a threat. All the same I would urge you to be more careful before you say things like that in the future.

If you believe you were Warned unfairly, that needs to be brought up with the head of that board, not here. I understand your purpose for mentioning it, but it has no bearing here nor is it appropriate in this thread. As to the actual content of your post, we are quite aware you believe something needs to be done about the Suggestions board. That is the only reason this thread is still open. However, if I continue to see the pushiness and idle threats I have seen in the past few posts, I will have no choice but to close this thread like the first one was.

I know you don't want that. So please be civil so I don't have to. If you have suggestions, make them, keeping in mind and addressing the difficulties members of the forum staff have expressed. But do not try to force those opinions on us by telling us what you think will happen if your suggestions aren't taken. Obstinacy, aggressiveness, and lack of cooperation will not result in the changes you would like to see.
Post #: 30
7/17/2011 21:34:51   
goldslayer1
Member

@everest
im sorry if it sounded like a threat it was in no way meant like that.
and it i was in no way trying to force this on u.
AQW Epic  Post #: 31
7/17/2011 21:42:42   
Everest
Moving Mountains


 I didn't think you were. Which is why I left the thread open. ;)

But I did want to generally warn everyone to keep things civil. We'd like this to be a discussion as much as you, but it has to be a calm one or it won't go anywhere.
Post #: 32
7/19/2011 9:38:09   
Acient J
Member

Hun Kingq has a point. Many of the threads in GD are suggestion threads. And there are reasonable discussions, suggestions, debates, and so on. Perhaps a compromise could be drawn--keep suggestions out of the GD, but open up one balance thread per class in Suggestions where discussion is allowed. Because from what I've seen, balance discussions help make the balance discussion much better overall. (And if 6 threads is too much, then one thread.)
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 33
7/20/2011 0:03:26   
goldslayer1
Member

@ancient
well not just balance suggestions.
there are other many good ideas that would help make this game better.
AQW Epic  Post #: 34
7/20/2011 9:29:20   
Acient J
Member

I know, but I feel like those are better to be processed, in Nightwraith's words, "in bite-sized pieces." There are plenty of good suggestions, but balance is one of the ones that needs the most open discussion.

PS: One of the problems with public discussion of suggestions is people reading a suggestion, liking it, and posting "I support!" which contradicts the AE forum suggestion policy (that suggestions should be rate by quality, not popularity). In a perfect world, public discussions of suggestions would only contain posts to the following manner.

"I think EpicDuel should... because..."
"I like your idea, but I there's a problem. You should change..."
"I don't like your idea because..."

< Message edited by Acient J -- 7/22/2011 9:26:39 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 35
7/31/2011 14:15:17   
goldslayer1
Member

@ancient
then thats the post of the players replying, not the original post.

i just came online today and saw about 5 suggestions thread locked in the GD while some were even deleted.
and its a shame some of them were really well thought out suggestions.
AQW Epic  Post #: 36
8/2/2011 18:27:30   
Elf Priest JZaanu
Constructive!


 With the society of ED, it is a very close knit community, and just as we discuss builds, ways to compete, this also includes ideas/suggestions.

I have made many suggestion threads to test out how interactive and constructive it can be. While posting a general idea both in Suggestions and General Discussion, I viewed every reply and tried to answer all questions and continued to improve my initial idea with recommendations from my peers.


I think posts should be allowed, because majority of the time, these are productive and positive. The basic principal should apply is to moderate your own suggestion. If you are not able to handle the responsibility of moderating, then one should not post suggestions. If a player has difficulty moderating a suggestion, having another player who is responsible can aid in the process if it is noted in the original thread. I also feel, a player only submits one suggestion at a time. Once it concludes, either by time or page amount, the topic closes, and only then, the player can submit another idea.

I had made examples of this, and I will add those links to review.


http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=18217268&mpage=10&key=� Post #250

< Message edited by JZaanu -- 8/2/2011 18:33:09 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 37
8/2/2011 23:42:32   
Sipping Cider
Member

I would like this to happen for many reasons. Mainly, so I can get feedback on my suggestion from the Community. However, there would be other pros to this too such as more organized ED GD plus the Devs could get more of a feel on how the Community would like a suggestion.

I made a thread or two myself that were suggestions in ED GD and before they were locked I got lots of good new ideas and improvements to my own idea that were very useful. I am thinking this would please many people and make things easier on everyone if people could reply to ED suggestions.
Epic  Post #: 38
8/6/2011 21:58:47   
Carsm
Member

I have the same problem with AQW suggestion forums. It doesn't inspire players to contribute, having them post in an overcrowded thread in which most of your suggestions are ignored. Player suggestions could be supported by other players so AE can implement popular ideas, and the ideas could be built upon by other creative players. The suggestion forum should foster creation and encourage player contribution, not suffocate it in one thread.

I don't play ED, but I feel the problem is mirrored in other AE forums.
AQW Epic  Post #: 39
8/7/2011 1:58:39   
The Forgotten
Exquisitely pathological


 Carsm, as has been stated before:

quote:

Suggestions aren't allowed in ED GD, or any General Discussion for that matter, because of the simple volume of them. They would inundate (and have in the past) the GD forum. In effect, a GD section that allowed suggestions would be completely disorganized. Why suggestions and not questions? Or bug reports? Sub-forums are created to compartmentalize replies, and a GD is a default forum meant to catch the more general discussion. Therefore, removing sub-forums reduces the effectiveness of a GD and ruins the organization of a forum area. Furthermore, even if that were to be ignored discussions of suggestions have caused numerous problems of trolling, flaming, and complaining. I'll pose a question: why would we desire to allow discussion of suggestions anywhere if those have been the results so far? Before you disagree that there have been large numbers of problems, keep in mind that we are the ones moderating and deleting those replies and threads.

quote:

ED Suggestions isn't the same as it was on the old forum. You're right, you can't discuss suggestions, but you can post them. And you can post a follow-up based on your discussions in PM and you can include a note in the follow-up that says "after discussing this at length with Angel's Holocaust, I've decided that we should..." to incorporate all your changes and give credit where it's due. PM gives you the freedom to have REAL discussions, not the polite ones that are carefully monitored by creepy, prying moderator eyes that will yell at you for saying h-e-double hockey sticks in public. This gives you the opportunity to have real exchanges that solve real problems before you present them to Cinderella who, by the way, is looking at everything in Suggestions. She's like Santa Claus - making a list, not seeing you when you're sleeping.
AQ AQW  Post #: 40
8/7/2011 15:21:36   
Hedning1390
Member

Hello, I don't play ED, but I have seldom seen a situation like this. Seemingly all players wanting one thing and admins wanting another?

Isn't the forums for the players? I mean AE can not make anything off the forums, there is no subscriptions, no adverts, no anything. So if all the players want something why not give it to them? If the problem is trolling and flaming, why not just appoint more forum moderators? Players generally do not like trolling and flaming, so moderating that won't upset them, and forum moderators do it for free so it won't cost AE anything extra either.

Discussing ideas with other players doesn't sound like such a bad thing to me. Good ideas often spring from discussion so allowing discussion should be beneficial to AE too. I don't see any reason for conflict here, and yet there is?

Maybe I have totally misunderstood what this topic is about, but these were my thoughts anyway.
AQ AQW  Post #: 41
8/7/2011 19:08:06   
The Forgotten
Exquisitely pathological


 It's not that simple. Recruiting new moderators and AKs is a long process, and not something that happens overnight. In addition to that, the restrictions placed on posting in ED and AQW suggestions are, in fact, placed due to request from the game staff, who lack the time to search through pages of suggestion threads.
AQ AQW  Post #: 42
8/8/2011 3:26:52   
Carsm
Member

I understand the problems ArchKnights would face, but I still believe the suggestion forums are sub-standard and would go as far as to say they are one of the worst I have encountered on a gaming forum. If individual threads for suggestions were allowed, each thread would not need to be seen by game staff, only the most popular ones. The staff would then be able to implement suggestions that are popular with the community. The decision to implement suggestions would still remain with them and they would not be forced to approve any suggestion they do not wish to implement into the game.
AQW Epic  Post #: 43
8/8/2011 8:48:37   
Stray Cat
The kitty
without a name


 Remember that the point of allowing discussion of suggestions would be to allow users to amend and build on their ideas, so ideally, rather than merely offering a thumbs up or saying, "I agree", replies would offer observations and advice. So, the more popular threads wouldn't necessarily feature the more popular suggestions but rather the suggestions capable of producing the most discussion. Plus, popularity isn't necessarily an accurate tool for gauging whether or not a suggestion is implementable.
Post #: 44
8/11/2011 6:54:45   
goldslayer1
Member

well i noticed circe is back so maybe she has something to add. (or do )
AQW Epic  Post #: 45
8/13/2011 14:37:29   
Circe
Stand Back


 I need to talk to Cinderella now that she's not split between two forums to see where she stands.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 46
8/29/2011 15:35:00   
goldslayer1
Member

hmmm
ok thanks
AQW Epic  Post #: 47
9/1/2011 4:54:28   
xxmirxx
Member
 

 Which means nothing circle will not do anything about allow players to post suggestion the moment when she made news was basically her way of say NO. JZaanu I will say this I agree with your post.
AQ Epic  Post #: 48
9/1/2011 5:18:37   
BlueKatz
Member

Umm... I find Mod and Ak really overreact about the works Suggestion thread can give

Seriously It doesn't bother much people beside all the Mod and Ak deleting thread without reading and join the discussion.
I'm talking about the community itself, the discussion players made and what people think about chatting and discussion.

Here are some facts:
First, the barriers between Dicussion - Prediction - Dreaming - And Suggestion is very slim. Just image how silly it is when someone else smash you when you say "I want Green SS" and consider it as suggestion.
Second, in fact AK and Mod don't have to worry much about how Suggestions posted in GD because if people like it, they discuss about it and link to possible feature in the game itself. And if they don't, it die, and the thread get auto deleted when no one post about it. It's not like people gonna do harm because it depend on staff who read em, the players who discuss with and Mod Ak do nothing about the thread itself.

The job of Mod and AK is keeping the forum clear and clean the troll, spammer around here and get rid of inappropriate posts and ban trouble maker. Honestly I don't see suggestion itself cause trouble in real life.. oh I mean on Forum.
Take AQ as the first example: they can give discussion and suggestion and it's not like it's easy to get approved.
And DF, people discuss about the possible stories, areas... you just can't.. and shouldn't stop them. It's an actual Suggestion, but DF has been the nicest Board in AE beside AQ.

Consider the succession of AQ and DF. The current mess in ED and AQW due to mad players and the lack of topic there, plus the fact Mod AK don't have to do much against suggestion (they fight against troll and spam)
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 49
9/1/2011 5:21:06   
The Forgotten
Exquisitely pathological


 Presumptuousness is generally a poor way of trying to get your opinion heard. Please have some patience; significant policy changes take a lot of planning and consideration roll out.
AQ AQW  Post #: 50
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