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Percentage Skills will be stronger

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8/4/2011 16:57:32   
endtime
Member

quote:

Percentage based skills (Berzerker, Bludgeon, Double Strike, Massacre) will now work like Deadly Aim, applying to the relevant equipped item instead of the entire attack amount


This would make percentage Skills stronger against high defenses, and thus weaken 5 focus builds, which have the most defenses, even more.

Here is an example:
A BH has 21-26 + 31 Primary damage and is going up against a Mage with 26-32 defense. Assume the attack will land on 23 and the defense will land on 29, and the BH uses a lvl 1 Massacre.
-In the past the damage would calculate the attack amount, i.e. your strength and your opponent's defense:
(23+31-29)*1.88 = 47
-Now the attack amount won't matter, thus the calculation would be:
23+31*1.88-29 = 52.28, which equals 53 since ED always rounds up

It's more drastic for Mercenaries who have max Hybrid Armor.
Past: (23+31-29-12)*1.88 = 24.44, which is 25
Now: 23+31*1.88-29 -12 = 40.28, which is 41,

Summary:
-Before strength and defense would be included in the calculation. This made it so that if you have higher defense than your opponent's attack, a percentage attack would do less damage and vice-versa.
-Now strength and defense aren't included in the calculation. This means that if you have higher defense, then the percentage attack will do more damage, and if you have lower defense, then the attack will do less damage compared to the past system.

This seems troubling because higher defense should equal less damage, not the other way around. This will definitely disadvantage Mercs with hybrid armor and Mages with defense matrix because strength builds can plow through the shields better with percentage skills. This also gives an advantage to lower strength builds, but since lower strength builds usually don't use percentage skills, this is for the most part irrelevant. Your thoughts?

< Message edited by endtime -- 8/5/2011 12:23:17 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
8/4/2011 17:03:19   
Fatal Impact
Member

As long as my double strike is doing just as much or more damage, Im happy.
Epic  Post #: 2
8/4/2011 17:06:01   
Thunder Lich
Member

This will slightly buff strength TM's and massacre gets a buff which is good for Strength BH's and CH.
Strength TLM's got a buff because there double strike would do more damage, which means they just got stronger.
Post #: 3
8/4/2011 17:06:51   
skeletondude
Member

@endtime : so what ur trying to say is that str build's are going to start being OPed.

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AQW Epic  Post #: 4
8/4/2011 17:25:04   
goldslayer1
Member

well IMO this is a better way to fight tanks then the rage system.
the more they tank, the more damage u do.
the lower their defense the less u do.
(comparing it to how its now)

so now when a tech mage uses defense matrix, he will be tanking but taking more damage than he would, compared to what he takes now.
AQW Epic  Post #: 5
8/4/2011 17:31:20   
Illuminator
Member

But you also have to remember that you will get the same bonus from it whether you have 200 str or 10 str. So 5 focus builds who go for more support or defense will get a larger benefit from using the % based skills if you look at it from a % of total damage added on. So the difference between damage output for strength builds and non strength builds will be lower.

Using your numbers:
quote:

A BH has 21-26 + 31 Primary damage and is going up against a Mage with 26-32 defense. Assume the attack will land on 23 and the defense will land on 29, and the BH uses a lvl 1 Massacre.

As you said the BH would do 53 damage with the new system and only 47 with the old one.

Now suppose the BH has only 12-15 + 31 primary damage, up against the same mage. Suppose the attack lands on 14 and the defense on 29.
14+31*1.88-29 = 44 damage.
While with the old system it would have been
(14+31-29)*1.88 = 31
So the non strength build gains 13 damage while the strength build only gains 6 damage from what it used to be.

So as you can see the % based skills will be more effective at helping low strength builds do extra damage than boosting high strength builds damage. So actually it will help fend off strength builds, not make them more powerful. So tanks would be able to get a little closer to the damage of a strength build, and since str builds have less defense it might actually even out.
AQ Epic  Post #: 6
8/4/2011 17:33:30   
IsaiahtheMage
Member

I do understand this doesnt it just give a % of extra weapon damage not your own damage?
AQW Epic  Post #: 7
8/4/2011 17:33:54   
Red plus blue
Member

Does this mean you can basically drop alot of your defense and not worry about it? If so i'd have more stats to put into strength! XD

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Epic  Post #: 8
8/4/2011 17:35:56   
skeletondude
Member

after what i read on this thread everything from this point on just sounded messed up
AQW Epic  Post #: 9
8/4/2011 17:38:12   
Red plus blue
Member

Right? LOL the game was fine to me......


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If someone asks you for your username and pass,
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Epic  Post #: 10
8/4/2011 17:41:45   
endtime
Member

This system will make it so that Strength Builds are harder to counter. For example, if a mage uses a +20 defense matrix:

Past: (23+31-20-29)*1.88=9.4
Now: 23+31*1.88-20-29 = 32.28
AQW Epic  Post #: 11
8/4/2011 17:51:19   
TurkishIncubus
Member

What???Your calculations are wrong

Attacker Merc ( double strike) lets say attack range 27-33 +33(let say we taked max dmg 66) and defenders defense set to 30

Old system : 66 + 66x30/100 (20) = 86 dmg - 30 (def) = 56 pure dmg

New system : 66 + 33x30/100 (10) = 76 dmg - 30(def) = 46 pure dmg

Its slightly nerfed



< Message edited by TurkishIncubus -- 8/4/2011 17:58:21 >

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Epic  Post #: 12
8/4/2011 17:54:18   
goldslayer1
Member

@turk
10 damage seems "slightly nerfed" to u?
AQW Epic  Post #: 13
8/4/2011 17:57:41   
TurkishIncubus
Member

quote:

@turk
10 damage seems "slightly nerfed" to u?


Well i see Healloop nerf + Passive reqs + Both robot atacks go cooldown , i guess this one is slight :S

but i think 15 energy for 10 more dmg is ridiculous , i think i will continue with Maul :D ( maul will do : 66 -30 + 30x20/100 = 42 dmg ) well 4 dmg less and some % chance to stun , its better :)

< Message edited by TurkishIncubus -- 8/4/2011 18:02:25 >
Epic  Post #: 14
8/4/2011 23:51:35   
endtime
Member

@Turkish That isn't how % skills are calculated. Illuminator and I used the correct math.

quote:

Attacker Merc ( double strike) lets say attack range 27-33 +33(let say we taked max dmg 66) and defenders defense set to 30

Old system : 66 + 66x30/100 (20) = 86 dmg - 30 (def) = 56 pure dmg

New system : 66 + 33x30/100 (10) = 76 dmg - 30(def) = 46 pure dmg


In the past system, the defense is counted along with the %, so the math is as follows
(66-30)*1.3= 46.8
Now, the defense and attack isn't counted (you calculated this correctly)
33+33*1.3-30=45.9

In this case, since the attack and defense are nearly the same, the difference is small. The difference comes when the attack is much lower or higher than the defense. I'm pointing this out to show that with this new system, it will be more difficult to use defense matrix or intimidate to counter strength builds.

< Message edited by endtime -- 8/4/2011 23:56:16 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 15
8/5/2011 0:12:55   
PivotalDisorder
Member

lol the idea seemed much simpler in the DNS ^^

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Post #: 16
8/5/2011 1:54:45   
Fatal Impact
Member

78+882-388%828+888(29)82-93939=MORE DAMAGE
Epic  Post #: 17
8/5/2011 2:56:33   
TurkishIncubus
Member

quote:

In the past system, the defense is counted along with the %, so the math is as follows
(66-30)*1.3= 46.8
Now, the defense and attack isn't counted (you calculated this correctly)
33+33*1.3-30=45.9

In this case, since the attack and defense are nearly the same, the difference is small. The difference comes when the attack is much lower or higher than the defense. I'm pointing this out to show that with this new system, it will be more difficult to use defense matrix or intimidate to counter strength builds.


hmm than Supp TM's will not be oped like i see , than this game can have real balance i guess.BH's Massacre can be more effective that they can be same with Str TLM. I guess new system will be better.
Epic  Post #: 18
8/5/2011 2:58:08   
Fatal Impact
Member

Lets just wait and see mmmmkkkkaaaaayyyyyy??????
Epic  Post #: 19
8/5/2011 3:07:15   
TurkishIncubus
Member

quote:

Lets just wait and see mmmmkkkkaaaaayyyyyy??????


Wait what?! we are discussing the new calculations , When update happen Devs will not show the calculations in game so discussing this before or after will not change anything.

Epic  Post #: 20
8/5/2011 3:14:31   
Fatal Impact
Member

What if they change there mind at the last minute and make it damage = who has more energy wins.
Epic  Post #: 21
8/5/2011 5:58:23   
King FrostLich
Member

Ohh crud this isnt gonna end well as I had thought. Though my berserker will deal more heaps of damage, defense and resistance are more likely to be HIGHLY increased and tank builds are going to rise if this is the case.

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Epic  Post #: 22
8/5/2011 6:06:24   
drinde
Member

Hey, this helps us kill Tanks faster, I'm not complaining.
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 23
8/5/2011 6:38:18   
GoldenNeo
Member

Wait.. are Merc's the only one getting their Hybrid Armor removed.. or TLM too? (I wish not. D:)
AQW Epic  Post #: 24
8/5/2011 6:41:25   
Goony
Constructive!


 ummm, you are calculating the damage wrong!

It will be a lot weaker for all the % damage attacks.

The quote says the % increase will now be based on equiped weapon damage only instead of entire damage... lol

So, for instance, let's just say the damage done previously in a normal attack was 30 for str damage and 30 for equipped weapon damage giving a total of 60 damage the percentage modifier would be based on this figure. Let's say it was 100% increase so the damage became 60+60.

With the update the damage will become 60+30 since only the equipped weapon damage will be increased by the %

Those attacks will be weaker, a lot weaker...

Epic  Post #: 25
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