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RE: =ED= Balance Discussions

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9/10/2011 22:45:35   
Hun Kingq
Member

At 33-40 +1 resistance with max level Plasma Rain, a level 33 tact merc with resistance 21-26+8 I only got 36 damage where as with a tech mage with 27-33 +9 +1 resistance I got 38 damage. With Mages at higher resistance I got more damage then tact mercs with low resistance on top of that all my Energy was used up and because of no energy return I had to rely upon low percentage of Blood Lust to keep me fighting while every time I hit a tact merc their energy went up helping them to heal 2 or more times and when I got EMP or Atom smashed there goes my energy and any energy based skill. So it is unfair and unbalanced that 4 classes can take away basically all your energy and you can't take none and get no energy return. All three Multiple attacks need to either start at 22 base stat or at 28 base stat to make things more fair and balanced. Since the Blood mage will not be given something to increased damage then the Tact merc or the Cyber Hunter should not have Technician to boost the bot damage or decrease the damage of the Blood Mage energy attacks to make things fair and balanced. I surely hope they are truly looking at all ideas and trying them all out because the linked skills are a mess, the skill trees are a mess, and fairness and balanced needs to be brought into the game.
Epic  Post #: 526
9/10/2011 23:01:11   
PivotalDisorder
Member

@Edvard: here is the info on the new enhancement standard

All items have a base of 5 enhancement slots. They are given extra slots for certain things:
- items receive 2 extra slots for being Varium
- items receive 1 extra slot for being Seasonal-Rare
- items receive 2 extra slots for being Limited-Rare or Rare
- items receive 3 extra slots for being a promotion or Ultra-Rare

_____________________________
Post #: 527
9/10/2011 23:08:53   
BlueKatz
Member

So... about Stat Balacning, has anyone here metnioned about how odd Crit, Block and Deflection calculated lately?

I mean to prevent stat abuse, they make higher stat requirement to increase Effect at higher Stat. So you will need to put more Stat into to increase the Effect

Meanwhile Crit, Block and Deflection as I remember increase by a static formula- they tent to to abused and reach cap and it's all Luck base

So as an example, in game Block now

3 Dex = 1 Block
3 Dex = 1 Block
3 Dex = 1 Block
3 Dex = 1 Block
3 Dex = 1 Block

While it should be
3 Dex = 1 Block
3 Dex = 1 Block
4 Dex = 1 Block
5 Dex = 1 Block
6 Dex = 1 Block

Or kinda

Am I doing something wrong here or the range for Luck to act is kinda too wide because of this?
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 528
9/10/2011 23:17:11   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 @Hun Kingq

Which is why I said that you need to provide screenshots, else no one will believe you simply because your case seems to be unique. You need to back up any claim with evidence; for example if you believe someone is hacking, you have to provide the evidence for that.

And seriously, all your comments about the inefficiency of blood lust and inability to regain energy essentially applies to the bounty hunter class as well. Now you know how it feels like to step in their shoes; yet they seem to be doing just fine, do they not?

As for balance: quite simply, any two or three of hybrid armour, bloodlust and reroute should never be put together into a single class; tactical mercs even have frenzy, which is essentially an active form of bloodlust. Thus their passives must either be tweaked, or either hybrid armour or reroute should be removed from their skill tree.

< Message edited by Silver Sky Magician -- 9/10/2011 23:25:55 >
Post #: 529
9/10/2011 23:35:00   
Stabilis
Member

@Hun Kingq

Mercenary: Hybrid armour/Blood shield
Tech mage: Defense matrix/Technician
Bounty hunter: Reflex boost/Energy shield
Tactical mercenary: Hybrid armour/Technician
Blood mage: Reflex boost/Technician
Cyber hunter: Defense matrix/Technician

quote:

Since the Blood mage will not be given something to increased damage then the Tact merc or the Cyber Hunter should not have Technician to boost the bot damage or decrease the damage of the Blood Mage energy attacks to make things fair and balanced.


Technician to not increase bot damage? Fair enough, tech usually comes mostly from stat allocation. Do you think robot damage should increase with technology though? (I personally wish we had more content developing with energy)

One thing that razzles me is you don't like the skills that increase technician thus increasing resistance and robot damage. Tbh, I don't see many focus-based cyber hunters or tactical mercenaries anymore using robot as a main damage source. We DO however need an improvisation to resistance or technology loss. It wouldn't be very balanced if tactical mercenaries or cyber hunters had a weakness to energy damage when every other class doesn't eh?
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I would like to say that I have never been a blood mage but I would like to try it some time. I really would like to see them have blood shield. Mostly because it would be a longstanding wall to resistance and it costs health which bloodlust will gladly provide. Bloodlust + blood shield will make a lovely cover up for blood mages.
AQ Epic  Post #: 530
9/11/2011 0:08:43   
edwardvulture
Member

@psibertus if balance was really a priority, the normal weapon would have 2 enhancements, 3 for being varium, and 4 for being moderately rare, and 5 for being an ultra-rare.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 531
9/11/2011 0:14:29   
FrostWolv
Member

quote:

I would like to say that I have never been a blood mage but I would like to try it some time. I really would like to see them have blood shield. Mostly because it would be a longstanding wall to resistance and it costs health which bloodlust will gladly provide. Bloodlust + blood shield will make a lovely cover up for blood mages.


@greenrain13

Srry Dude ... plz have pity on BM

We cant have proper Life Steal coz Tlm have high defense and resistance
We cant regain energy like TM and Tlm so we cant HL and spam energy powers (our only source is RB which is not a nice energy back skill)
We cant drain opponents energy pool Like any other class

So please dont advise blood shield for us ... U can ask it for ur Ch instead of DefenseMatrix
Epic  Post #: 532
9/11/2011 0:46:56   
edwardvulture
Member

^Its not just BM that has trouble with tank HL TLM's everyone has a problem with them, and the only counter for it is a support TLM. Of course this all goes back to how we have too much enhancement slots for full varium players.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 533
9/11/2011 0:49:42   
Hun Kingq
Member

Silver Sky Magician, Do you know the damage difference between the Blood Mage Class and the Hunter Class when you calculate the percentage there is a big difference between getting attacked with claws than a staff so with you constantly coming after me I don't have to provide any proof to you which by the way I have the screen shots to take the notes and compare the damage. If the want to make things fair and balanced than max Blood Lust should be 30% regain just as max reroute below max as it is it is inefficient for the Blood Mage class and the ED programmers knows all of this but they could only work on one thing at a time and right now they are most likely working on the support issue. You could ask any player that was in 2vs2 battle with how little damage tact mercs got with my tech at 111 resistance 34-41 +1 and max Plasma Rain but like I wrote I don't have to provide any proof to you because you are just a player if the programmers want it then I will send it to them but they don't need it because they could do the same test and get the same results.

greenrain13, the tact mercs can get enough resistance boost from regular armor and hybrid armor why would they need something that not only increases resistance further as well as increase bot damage here the blood mage has nothing to decrease dex, tech, or support. The bot damage should only increase with base tech not with any enhancements. So is it fair to the Blood mage that the Cyber hunters could decrease our tech while boosting theirs, is it fair that the Tact mercs could decrease the Blood Mages Dex and get increased damage while the Blood mage could only decrease strength (whoopee when players are abusing every other stat) and get no increase in damage. During my little test I did not use reflex boost or technician on myself I used technician on my merc partner after all but 16 points of energy was stolen from me. Is it fair that the Blood Mage can't take any energy or get energy back unless we use energy to get 15% back, wow a whole 15%, is it fair that two new classes could poison the Blood Mage and take away health overtime while we can't? So if you really want to create a list of what is fair and balanced we can and you will see the list is alot longer for the Blood Mage then the other new classes. Just like it is not fair to the Blood Mage to have a weakness against physical damage, the programmers can come up with something to boost the Cyber Hunters and Tact mercs resistance but not with technician, Blood shield is just linking another skill, which we don't need and will screw up the code even further, and will not boost the skills that improves with technician and why do the Blood Mage need a skill that takes away health as well when we have all these skills that eats up energy and for us to get back the health used by Blood shield and the damage that is inflicted upon us we need to do massive damage with 23% return and the Blood Mage does not, if we do a constant 30 points of damage that is only 7 points of health and if they get 35 points of damage each time that is negative health each turn.

Before they could move on to get things balanced out with the skills and break the link between the classes they need to deal with the long unattended most abused stat by multiple classes especially the merc class called the Support Stat after they deal with that stat then they could move on and see what skills can be added on and what skills can be taken away to achieve the balance between power defense and resistance.
Epic  Post #: 534
9/11/2011 1:36:22   
PivotalDisorder
Member

^^ go back a page dude, the staff know about support man ;)

< Message edited by psibertus -- 9/11/2011 1:43:30 >
Post #: 535
9/11/2011 1:46:53   
frosty123
Member
 

 Perhaps we should make more multis. Someone came up with a great idea of switching Plasma rain and artilary and i totally agree. We should have a earthquake skill that improves with STR and make it energy(physical makes sense though)(lets make it energy). For BM we should make another earth quake skill or "cloud of lighting" or "avalache"(it should be physical). For CH Give them a hyper powered laser multi. CH should 1 energy atk one physical atk . This wil be how it works

1.5+ Stat every 1 damage after 35 Stat POints in stat with 5% defence ignore until Skill LV 5 then its 15% resis or def ignore.

Or

2.4+(___)every 1 damae until it is 40 damage, then 5+(___) for every 1Damage. 0% ignore until lv 7 then 10% ignore.

CH MUlti

1 or 2

Which ever one is weaker the weak atk goes to it. The stronger defence or resis will take the stronger Atk.

If it had 20-25 Defense +1+13 34-39
and 23-28+9+1=33-38 Resis

Then the dmage was 40-Weaker Stat and 45 to stronger then
45- 34-39
And 40-33-38


< Message edited by frosty123 -- 9/11/2011 1:52:50 >
Post #: 536
9/11/2011 2:31:13   
edwardvulture
Member

I think they need to modify some of the skills so that BM's won't be obliged to spam strength.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 537
9/11/2011 2:51:58   
PenyihiR
Member

BM not supposed to be Offensive Class n Focus on Attacking..,
I think BM is supposed to be Defensive class With Reflex Boost/Technician + Intimidate.,
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 538
9/11/2011 3:03:29   
Ice wolf X
Member

Well i just went bh and comparing blood lust to reroute and frenzy and statics its so weak... i think it needs a buff.What do you think?

Threads merged. Please keep all Balance Discussions in this Thread. Thanks! ~Lectrix

< Message edited by Lectrix -- 9/11/2011 3:20:45 >

_____________________________
Post #: 539
9/11/2011 3:06:39   
SouL Prisoner
Member

in sort u want now blood lust to be OPed!!!


r u planing to change into blood mage?

_____________________________
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 540
9/11/2011 3:08:18   
Ice wolf X
Member

well what about making it 30% like reroute..would make it fair comparing to other passive skills.and no i dont plan to try blood mage lol
Post #: 541
9/11/2011 3:15:48   
PivotalDisorder
Member

Blood lust really isnt that good unless you can pump out some decent numbers, like in a strength build but its still
a solid skill to have, I couldnt imagine playing BM or BH without having at least level 7 blood lust.

Sig removed due to Thread Merge. ~Lectrix

< Message edited by Lectrix -- 9/11/2011 3:22:11 >
Post #: 542
9/11/2011 3:18:52   
SouL Prisoner
Member

well i dont noe about blood lust but , but i think static charge should get rid of the "cool downs"

they must be juzz made like blood lust (passive) n get only the amount of energy by calculating their damage done.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 543
9/11/2011 3:31:58   
PivotalDisorder
Member

Noooooooooo. people obsessed with passives. Mercenaries only have 1 passive and no debuff like smoke or malfunction. Static charge is what makes
playing cyber hunter so much fun. Im just hoping they dont increase the cooldown from 2 turns to 3 turns. if you ignore the battles against those OP
unbalanced builds, Cyber Hunter just feels really powerful when Im playing it. I have never been able to feel that way about regular bounty hunters.
Post #: 544
9/11/2011 9:46:38   
Stabilis
Member

^ But don't you use a build that needs a LOT of energy to use its best skills? Then again there is NO ONE, I repeat NO ONE who drains energy effectively enough to stop a cyber hunter.



Blood mages: Ok, I see blood mages have a couple problems now. You don't have very much energy to play with, so usable skills become questionable. It would seem to be better relying on your weapons for a damage source and having bloodlust. The only real skills I could see being effective would be: Reflex boost, technician, plasma cannon, and supercharge. Because of the lack of good physical skills (fireball is non-improvable with other skills and is simply a net amount), all of your weapons would best be physical and that won't be useful for versatility.

One thing that bothers me is blood mage being a type of mage that doesn't regain energy... Why the heck with so many spells?! This is ridiculous, I doubt many people use plasma rain or overload... They should be replaced.

< Message edited by greenrain13 -- 9/11/2011 10:04:16 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 545
9/11/2011 11:19:52   
Dendavex
Member

I think TLM shouldn't be nerfed badly but to be nerfed in Artillery maybe we should not let Artillery to scale levels but to ignore 5% i dunno anything that will weaken Support will do I guess
Epic  Post #: 546
9/11/2011 11:23:37   
PivotalDisorder
Member

greenrain. dont worry too much about Blood Mages right now, Cyber hunters weren't much use until they changed static charge.
im sure the balance team are discussing ways to fix the blood mage, and yes they definitely need assimilation back
Post #: 547
9/11/2011 12:02:36   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 @Hun Kingq

Obviously there is no difference between getting attacked by claws and by a staff if both the bounty hunter and the blood mage have the same base damage -_-

The blood lust percentages of the two classes are also the same. The average damage of a bounty hunter and blood mage of the same stats are also extremely similar -level 1 beserker is 45% more damage, whereas a level 1 massacre is 50% more damage. Beserker even costs less EP and has no stat requirements.

Fireball and Plasma Cannon are obviously better than Stun Grenade and Multi Shot in terms of damage. And Deadly Aim is sometimes even more useful than Smokescreen, since Assault-Bot users are prevalent and people are much more likely to shield when they get debuffed compared to when they don't.

Thus I don't see why your dismissing of my assertion is justified. And you still haven't told me why no else -not one single person in this forum- reports the same issues as you constantly do.

And I'm not asking you to show the screenshots to me. I'm asking you to take those screenshots and report them in the bugs forum. Quit confusing bugs for balance issues, it's seriously getting painfully old. The sheer illogical nature of it isn't even funny anymore. You're saying the devs can run their own tests? Evidently they're not getting your results.

Furthermore your list of problems with the blood mage class is quite ridiculous -most of those problems apply to the merc and bounty hunter classes as well- classes that you ironically once called OP. Mercs can't debuff, can't poison, can't regain EP, and unlike blood mages, can't even shield or regain HP. I didn't see you complaining about that. A paltry 15% from reflex boost? That's all the bounty hunters got as well.

On topic: I think Intimidate is rather useful to blood mages when used right; perhaps assimilation could replace Overload instead? And I agree with Cyber Hunters getting reroute or a variant of it similar to bloodlust in place of Static Charge.

< Message edited by Silver Sky Magician -- 9/11/2011 12:25:14 >
Post #: 548
9/11/2011 14:32:48   
PivotalDisorder
Member

@SSM: dont you dare suggest taking my beloved static charge just cause you dont know what your doing with cyber hunters :P
Post #: 549
9/11/2011 14:34:11   
frosty123
Member
 

 Give BM a skill that drains a % of health and transfers a % to energy.
Also give them EMP

For CH give static Charge a draining ability
Post #: 550
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