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RE: =ED= Balance Discussions

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11/13/2011 11:22:43   
Remorse
Member

ok if the emp me first even better.

1.emp in return( They have to have emp 39 or over to take my emp, prctiaclly impossible for a str BH)
2. mana boost
3. reflex
4. robo/aux
5.robo /aux
6.heal
7. hp boost
8.robo/aux
9.rage robo/aux

< Message edited by Remorse -- 11/13/2011 11:23:56 >
Epic  Post #: 601
11/13/2011 11:31:35   
goldslayer1
Member

see when i fight focus types, i dont go with the smoke strike strike strategy.

when i go first i
smoke
strike
strike (by then they will atleast heal once)
rage strike (dropping hp to the 45-55 range)
massacre (which pretty much kills)


and if he EMPs u and u EMP him the str BH still wins.

i fought many fights were i EMPed the focus BH and he would EMP back
the str BH still wins under that situations and usually with 30-50 hp to spare

btw Focus isn't something i would call a counter build, it pretty much has a little bit of everything. and every class has focus. so its basically fits in with tank.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 11/13/2011 11:38:15 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 602
11/13/2011 12:21:42   
Stabilis
Member

As few of you now know, I became a blood mage.

Blood mage is OK. I think the passives are fine, there are many casting skills, very nice stat boosting skills... But there are some considerable chains tying it down. One of them being the deadly aim trap. For tech mages it lets them be an OP supporter. But for blood mages it only slows them down. Blood mages are quite similar to bounty hunter. However the blood mage has the disadvantage of support if trying to be a strength user, the requirement of deadly aim for blood mage gores their stat point usage. You can be a caster or supporter but, damage output is not very high, or energy just runs out quickly.

Option A: Remove blood mage's deadly aim requirement.

Option B: Reroute or assimilation.

This would put them on par with cyber hunters and tactic mercs.
AQ Epic  Post #: 603
11/13/2011 13:46:26   
kittycat
Member

If they put Assimilation, it would make Blood Mages prone to Defenses because they used to lack increasing defenses, making it difficult w/o a robot. The only way to incorporate Assimilation is to replace Fireball.
AQ MQ  Post #: 604
11/13/2011 15:50:25   
Hun Kingq
Member

Having requirements will not stop the stat abusers because all what they will do is lower that skill to meet that requirement but what will work is stat capping skills. Let's take maul for one, if base strength is higher than 52 then that skill is disabled at any level, this can be down with any skill or any class. They could even do it with weapons or bots. So with my idea of new unique skills for the Blood Mage they could put the stat cap on certain skills to make sure the Blood Mage has the power it should but not too much power.
Epic  Post #: 605
11/13/2011 16:30:18   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 @Hun stat capping may work if you put it under a formula setting at a solid number will only lead to problems down the road

Also BM had Assimilate it was replaced by SC im still questioning if it was a good call because i see Assim get used way more then SC
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 606
11/13/2011 16:36:19   
StriderAigis
Member

quote:

Also BM had Assimilate it was replaced by SC im still questioning if it was a good call because i see Assim get used way more then SC



Thought RB replaces Assim

< Message edited by MegachibiHunter -- 11/13/2011 16:40:33 >

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AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 607
11/13/2011 16:45:57   
Stabilis
Member

To get assim back I wouldn't mind removing:

A: Overload

or

B: Plasma rain
AQ Epic  Post #: 608
11/13/2011 17:50:40   
Hun Kingq
Member

One Winged Angel1357, If it was doing a calculation then yes a solid number would create a problem but don't forget the base stat number was always in the program and the enhancement number was added in at a later date basically it would be 4 to 5 lines of code that any programmer can come up within 15 minutes or less. Stat capping would deal with if the base stat is above a certain number that skill or skills will be disabled. They are trying to come up with solutions for the present not worrying about down the road and things can be adjusted as the game progresses.

They are trying to get players to lower the stats they abuse by putting requirements but as we see that plan is failing because all what players are doing is lowering the skill points to meet those requirements to still abuse the stats but with stat capping then no matter what level the skill is at if they go above the certain base stat then that skill is disabled. they could even do it with field medic letting the players know if the base stat is above a certain number then you can't heal.

Epic  Post #: 609
11/13/2011 18:05:39   
Jekyll
Member

In order to get assimilation back for BM, I would catch a grenade for you.

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AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 610
11/13/2011 18:07:19   
Stabilis
Member

This really bad, blood mage needs IMMEDIATE work. As bounty hunter and mercenary before it... blood mage is only meant to be a 1-2 hit wonder. A mage NEEDS energy. Come on balance team, please get them assimilation or reroute.

As of now I am becoming a tactical mercenary to abuse frenzy and dexterity.

ITS BEEN AN HOUR. I already hate being a tlm. Frenzy has a support requirement. I can't determine which I should return to... cyber hunter or blood mage.

I think you get the idea, the skill requirements are messed up.

< Message edited by greenrain13 -- 11/13/2011 18:46:04 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 611
11/13/2011 21:22:53   
Calogero
Member

I feel your pain Greenrain13

I miss being a Bloodmage but then I'd be destroyed by the 60% Tact mercs that it won't even be funny anymore...
Feels like indirectly forcing

_____________________________

Having a Signature is too mainstream
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 612
11/13/2011 21:34:13   
ur going to fail
Member

I suggest CH if you get the right stuff for a beastly dex build. Act like a support TLM, but CH (of course) and with dex.
Epic  Post #: 613
11/13/2011 21:48:09   
Jekyll
Member

Becoming a BM/CH makes no difference, I've been tearing up TLMs quite well for the past hour.

< Message edited by Jekyll -- 11/13/2011 21:49:11 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 614
11/13/2011 21:49:06   
FrostHS
Banned


 ^Dex builds are not the only CH build. Right now i'm using a dex/str build and it's decent. sometimes i get my static blocked by tactical noobs, but whatever, we all know thats not a very big shocker.
AQW Epic  Post #: 615
11/13/2011 21:52:12   
ur going to fail
Member

I say dex, because I love dex :P It's exactly like support abuse, but instead of crits, you get blocks.

edit: It's ironic how str abuse is the only type of stat abuse that has no benefit (dex/tech increase some skill dmg) but is used so much.

< Message edited by ur going to fail -- 11/13/2011 22:12:36 >
Epic  Post #: 616
11/13/2011 22:12:02   
Jekyll
Member

I think Tech is the least useful. Not that it is useless, but not as effective to the extent of STR, DEX OR SUPP.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 617
11/13/2011 22:25:46   
nico0las
Member

Someone make static charge unblockable. PLEASE.
There is no other skill in the game as essential to survival as static charge is to cyber hunter.
The closest thing I can compare it to is a tactical mercenary without reroute. OR hybrid armor. Or frenzy or smokescreen.
I can make no remote comparison.
It's essential. It's incredible. It's constantly blocked.

I think whoever runs karma is purposefully blocking my SCes.

Curses. There it goes again.


@OmegaFaust Except that making a build OP is the first step to balance...

< Message edited by nico0las -- 11/14/2011 22:11:30 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 618
11/13/2011 22:39:03   
BlueKatz
Member

After writing down some number, I figured out why STR abuse is that broken.

Primal have +30 damage...
Now compare to Gun damage, aux damage and Def/Res plus Armor
STR increase both Primal and Gun mean it can seek Element gaining average 5-7 damage (just calculate around)

So STR nerfing skill is not as good as expected. STR abuse deal more damage (compare to skill using, Bot and Aux) even if you tanking.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 619
11/14/2011 1:42:17   
xxomegafaustxx
Member

quote:

In order to get assimilation back for BM, I would catch a grenade for you.


I'm not sure if I should laugh or not. Was this a reference to the song by Bruno Mars? If it was kudos :)! That made my day bweahawa! If not, then please excuse my humour lol.

Back on topic, I don't this static charge should be made unblockable. Half of the time CHs don't really on the normal strike, sometimes they gun, aux, or bot to get their MP back. And we're talking about 42% of something (correct me, I may be statistically invalid but hopefully you know what I mean), splurged back onto mana which in the future, may be severely oped.

I envision high str CHs builds with a low level malfunction, high level heal/high level massacre = imbalanced and oped class if static charge was unblockable.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 620
11/14/2011 1:45:35   
drinde
Member

^
Eh, omega, you can only Static Charge with your Primary.
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 621
11/14/2011 1:49:35   
Remorse
Member

@omega, I agree.

If STR build had some possible way to gain energy AND be unblockable it could be abused easily with certain builds.

However I do think static should be changed, It should become a passive meaning every attack the player does has a smaller % added to energy.

Sort of like the oppisite to reroute.

Advanatge compared to reroute is you determine whether you get energy or not.
Disadvanatge is You have to attack to get the enrgy and in some cases you may need to heal but you cant so you need to attack rather then use a HP booster.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 11/14/2011 1:50:15 >
Epic  Post #: 622
11/14/2011 21:16:58   
igfod13
Member

After spending nearly all of my 3 day weekend plugging in equations into a google spreadsheet, and with the help of a few friends, I have effectively quantified the "effectiveness" of each skill by converting all the skills to theoretical damage over time. (What I call DAA-energy/cooldown. @Whirl, Pranz, eloy: xP)I could probably make this post very long, but I'm in a bit of a rush, so a quick summary of the results I've found:

Surprisingly, the classes are overall pretty balanced in terms of skills on average, except that mercenaries are very underpowered. (Which might mean that the OP-ness of Tact Mercs might be overhyped(I must say that I am one of those that believe that Tact Mercs need a large nerf), but there are a few possible explanations of why Tact Mercs are indeed, so successful).

Hybrid Armor, when maxed, is the best skill in the game, followed by Reflex Boost, Artillery Strike in 2v2, Static Charge, Defense Matrix, Bloodlust, then Massacre. I guess these are your OP skills.

An interesting trend that I noticed was that most casting skills were TERRIBLE, mainly because they consume so much energy, and do so little damage unless you max the skill. Because I factored in energy cost into all the skills, this lowered their overall value, but anyways casting skills are incredibly inefficient in terms of energy(even when maxed).

Also, something interesting I came across was that BEFORE I factored in blocks into blockable skills, Tact Mercs were by FAR the most powerful, due to their wide range of striking skills. What this means: Don't complain when you get blocked Tlms, it's a way of balancing you. However, since Tact Mercs do have smoke, I think they do in fact have an advantage that is very hard for me to factor in.

If anyone is interested in helping me improve my calculations(please be good at math) and helping me do some more analyzing, or is just curious/skeptical about how I did things(which is far from perfect, there's a lot of stuff I don't know how to factor in like assumptions of the opponent's intelligence/weaponry XD), PM me and I'll send you the link to the spreadsheet.

-okdude

Note: I assumed all stats are equal cuz I'm lazy, so that might have affected my results, but analyzing stats are for another day.

< Message edited by igfod13 -- 11/14/2011 22:15:39 >

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AQ Epic  Post #: 623
11/15/2011 0:42:06   
BlueKatz
Member

@igfod13 Wow I would love to work with you. I was doing something fairly similar but focus on Stat more than skill. I also notice most of the skill are very close to balance (beside Massacre I thought it would be UP). You can read about my Stat process here (still need more work)
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 624
11/15/2011 2:05:27   
kittycat
Member

TLMs have smoke which lowers defense, increases their physical and probably lower blocking. However, there should be an increase in blocking TLMs by a small amount, maybe 2% to 4%.

AQ MQ  Post #: 625
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