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RE: =ED= Balance Discussions

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11/20/2011 15:33:48   
9001WaysToLaugh
Member

I'm starting to think that tlm isn't as over powered as everyone says it is. It's just easier to use. The other classes take more effort. This is loop healing all over again... back in beta I could actually beat loop healers with a DEX build. Everyone else (majority, not actually everyone) screamed "OP!" "OP!" and never thought up anything creative. I do agree that tlm is too easy to use, however.
Epic  Post #: 676
11/20/2011 16:22:13   
Wootz
Member

Hun, like I didn't leave any ideas both for BM's & CH's, and they cover what people on the forum 'complain' what is left out of them.
quote:

Cyber Hunters:

Skill Name: Cyber Stealer
Description: This skill is a passive that acts like BloodLust ( You attack, you get HP ); However, the ammount of the HP you would regen is the % of current EP in the opponents Energy Pool.

By Levels
1. 2%
2. 4%
3. 5%
4. 6%
5. 7%
6. 8%
7. 9%
8. 10%
9. 11%
10. 12%

How it would work in a battle:
Round 1:
Player A ( Opponents) has 100 EP and attacks you.
Player B ( You ) attacks and with the Cyber Stealer on Max you'd regen 12 HP, since the opponents EP is 100 and 12% of 100 is 12.
Round 2:
Player A uses a skill that takes 50 EP and is left with 50 EP in his Energy Pool.
Player B attacks and with the Cyber Stealer on Max you'd regen 12% of 50 which is around 6-8 HP
-----------

Blood Mages:

Skill name: Blood Swap
Description: This skill is a passive that acts like BloodLust ( You attack, you get HP, EP in this situation ); However, the ammount of the EP you would regen is the % of current HP in the opponents Health Pool.

By Levels:
1. 2%
2. 4%
3. 5%
4. 6%
5. 7%
6. 8%
7. 9%
8. 10%
9. 11%
10. 12%

How it would work in a battle:
Round 1:
Player A ( Opponents) has 100 HP and attacks.
Player B ( You ) attack the opponent and get blocked, wasting Energy; by the Blood Swap you would regen 12% of 100 HP which is 12 EP back.
Round 2:
Player A attacks.
Player B attacks and and takes 50 HP of opponents Health Pool; by the Blood Swap you'd regen 12% of 50 HP which is 6-8 EP back to his Energy Pool.
----------------------

Taken from ED Suggestions board, page 10.

Basicaly, HELO gives BMs both Energy returner and Health returner although the class already has an Health regen.
Btw, It'd be better like Health Energy Overseer, as Life is basicly the same thing as Health.

< Message edited by 1234speedy -- 11/20/2011 16:24:44 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 677
11/20/2011 20:20:41   
Hun Kingq
Member

1234speedy, So you take HELO first so you will think it will make the Blood Mage over powered and you think it will be added as an addition to the skill tree but it will not be an addition it would replace Blood Lust. What happens when a Blood mage puts on reflex boost they get health when they attack and get energy when they are hit so what is the difference other then HELO is always on and gets the same percentage as reroute. Put the new shield, Guardian, it limits the damage from attacks thus making the energy return low but enough so the Blood mage could last in battle. Did you know the NPC, Titan has both reroute and Blood Lust, is he over powered, no, how many have beat him, many. It does not use energy to use since the Blood Mage has too many energy using skills.

Reroute should have never left the mage class but should have been evolved with the new class.

Your idea short changes the Blood mage with low percentage and will only work in 1vs1 where HELO will work in any match without any glitches.

So what skill you want to go over next so I can clarify that skill will not make the Blood Mage over powered?
Epic  Post #: 678
11/20/2011 20:24:11   
AQWPlayer
Member

@Hun
Can you explain how HELO works again please?
I'm gonna check it out tomorrow since I probably won't have time today.
Thanks!
AQW  Post #: 679
11/20/2011 21:54:23   
Hun Kingq
Member

AQWPlayer, HELO is a combination of Reroute and Blood Lust, you strike you get health you get hit you get energy but if you get blocked or if you block you get no return just like reroute and Blood Lust. The percentage of return for HELO will be the same as Reroute since we now know anything less is crap. So as everyone knows the less damage you inflict the less health you get, the less damage you take in the less energy you get.

It would replace Blood Lust. To see how it would work battle the NPC Titan.

< Message edited by Hun Kingq -- 11/20/2011 21:57:53 >
Epic  Post #: 680
11/20/2011 22:13:36   
Autumms
Member

^ That's more overpowered then giving reroute to blood mage since it's like blood lust and reroute in only 1 skill.
Epic  Post #: 681
11/20/2011 22:13:38   
Jekyll
Member

^Sounds good, but why not just have reroute and bloodlust separately?
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 682
11/20/2011 22:15:00   
Autumms
Member

^ Lol you posted exactly 2 seconds after me.
Epic  Post #: 683
11/20/2011 22:40:02   
FrostHS
Banned


 Why not give HELO to CH's AND BM? I think it would be a good idea, since they are the most 'UP' classes(Evolved) Ch would be better with reroute. BM would be better with assim, take out either Technicain or intimidate, as they are pretty much useless to a BM. I know this because i have been a BM, along with all the other classes.
AQW Epic  Post #: 684
11/20/2011 22:41:15   
Joe10112
Member

We gotta get some staff input on HELO.

Sounds fine. Cyber Steal sounds UP though, most people don't have 100 HP. 12% of 50 is only 6 health...

Wait, that's more than what BL gives back per turn.

Scratch that. it's good. Especially on NPCs with 200 EP.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 685
11/20/2011 23:03:54   
Autumms
Member

^ Or NPC's with 1000 EP, not gonna point fingers at any NPC (Armor Hazard, Administrator 11), anyone wanna restore 120 hp per hit? I know I want to xD hmm if this was implemented 2 low level Cyber Hunters just might be able to beat down those baddies lol.

< Message edited by Autumms -- 11/20/2011 23:09:25 >
Epic  Post #: 686
11/20/2011 23:10:41   
Wraith
Member
 

 ^Actually as long as they maxed health and didn't get critted they would do fine.

It's the closer the the end part that concerns me. At 100 HP the player would only restore 12 HP...
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 687
11/20/2011 23:16:02   
Autumms
Member

What are you talking about?,
quote:

the ammount of the HP you would regen is the % of current EP in the opponents Energy Pool.


I think your confusing energy pool with health pool.

< Message edited by Autumms -- 11/20/2011 23:28:34 >
Epic  Post #: 688
11/20/2011 23:19:52   
State Alchemist
Member

quote:

Why not give HELO to CH's AND BM? I think it would be a good idea, since they are the most 'UP' classes(Evolved) Ch would be better with reroute. BM would be better with assim, take out either Technicain or intimidate, as they are pretty much useless to a BM. I know this because i have been a BM, along with all the other classes.


Do NOT take away technician. As a bloodmage I get MALF'd so many times, it is very valuable!

But I totally agree to replace intimidate with assimilate!
Post #: 689
11/21/2011 1:12:57   
Remorse
Member

^ They cant take intiidate because evry class needs a debuff skill,

How about they trade asimilate for plasma cannon, even though its new its not very useful nor suitade to the blood mage nome they arent a merc for heavens sack sake xD.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 11/21/2011 1:28:16 >
Epic  Post #: 690
11/21/2011 1:22:47   
Autumms
Member

^ Ohh heaven has a sack? Now I so wanna go there =P
Epic  Post #: 691
11/21/2011 2:15:56   
kittycat
Member

well, here is a small problem. If we remove Technician, It won't be fair because all 3 classes are provided Technician. If we remove Intimidate, we would be the class with no stat debuff. Okay lemme tell you the class requirements:

Each class should have:
An opportunity to raise both defense/resistance
1 Stat Debuff
1 Field Medic
An Opportunity to Drain EP
1 Main Passive ONLY.
1 Side Passive(if possible)(Mercenary has no side passive)
1-2 Damage Skills(3 if Mercenary)0
1 Multi Skill
1 Stunning Skill
1 Super Skill
1 Skill to raise Tech/Dex/Strength whatsoever.
1 Skill to Raise simply Defense/Resistance

Blood Mage has/(Tech Mage)has:
1 Healing Skill(1)
1 Stun Skill(1)
1 Multi Skill(1)
2 Caster Skills(1)
1 Main Passive(1)
1 Side Passive(1)
2 Stat Boosters/Defense Boosters(2)
1 Special Skill(1)
1 Stat Debuff(1)
1 Blockable Damage Skill(1)
0 Energy Drain(1)

If you compare to Tech Mage, We have one extra caster skill that is simply taking the spot of Assimilation. So, We can make Fireball as Fireball Assimilation. A combination of both moves.

< Message edited by kittycat -- 11/21/2011 2:24:36 >
AQ MQ  Post #: 692
11/21/2011 2:20:59   
State Alchemist
Member

quote:

They cant take intiidate because evry class needs a debuff skill,


Intimidate blows anyways..please take it away
Post #: 693
11/21/2011 2:23:08   
Remorse
Member

excelant Idea Kittykat!

Make fireball "burn off" a ceratin amount of mp acroding to the level,

lvl 1 =1mp burned
lvl10 - 10mp burned


Burned mp is not given to you but you get the edge over asimliate as it is unblockable plus proberly more powerful attack.
Epic  Post #: 694
11/21/2011 2:31:07   
drinde
Member

^
Wouldn't that lead to people spamming STR though?

How about letting Plasma Cannon have a 10% Chance of doing 80% Damage and draining EP equivalent to 30% of that Damage.
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 695
11/21/2011 2:43:16   
Jekyll
Member

@drinde I think a 10% chance is kinda small, considering plasma cannon requires quite some energy which BMs have a limited supply of.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 696
11/21/2011 4:17:12   
drinde
Member

Here is a replacement idea for Hybrid on Tacticals.

Hybrid Barrier, same Dexterity Requirement and Improvement range as Hybrid Armor.

The difference is, the Barrier fades a little each turn, giving 2 ess defense each turn for 5 turns, then restarting at the base.

I.E: 1st turn, +13, 2nd turn, +11 3rd turn, +9 Defense, 4th, +7, 5th, +5, 6th, +13.

This may stop them from Heal-Looping.
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 697
11/21/2011 7:57:00   
Goony
Constructive!


 Fixing the way rage works would help with a lot of the issues ingame. Two major issues at the moment and have been for a while are the first turn and illogical rage build up! The really illogical part is that one player gets smashed and the player smashing them gets rage without getting hurt... Huh, am I missing something here!

Here's how it works at the moment as described on wiki!

Rage:
[Formula] Filled Rage Bar = 40 + (5 * Level)
Rage Points awarded to attacker based on the amount of damage reduced by the defender's defense or resistance.
Rage Points awarded to defender based on 33% of the damage recieved. (spelling mistake is on wiki)
Rage rate increased by support advantage. 1% increase in rage rate per 3 support more than your opponent up to a maximum of 115% (minimum of 85% if at a support disadvantage).

Here's a proposed system of how it should work!

Rage:
[Formula] Filled Rage Bar = 40 + (5 * Level)
Rage Points awarded to attacker based on the amount of damage not done and then multiplied by 0.25 (So criticals and blocks factor into the equation)
Rage Points awarded to defender based on the damage received and then multiplied by 0.75.
Rage rate modified by health difference. 1% increase/decrease in rage points allocated per 3 health difference than your opponent up to a maximum of 115% and minimum of 85% if at a health advantage!

Looking closely at the numbers I can't see that rage is working as it is described on the wiki...

40 + (5*34) = 210 (The amount of points required to get rage at level 34)

210, so how do some of these strength players get rage so quick... huh something fuzzy in those figures :(


Making this type of change would:

Stop health spamming. Get rid of agility!
Give the person who goes second a chance.
With the proposed rage build system in place the support modifier for who goes 1st could be strengthened and hopefully eliminate those crazy battles where you have 3 times the support than the other player yet still start second.

Now I know some people won't see the overall benefits of this and will say that it just help the tanks. But, remember this is supposed to be a strategy game and at the moment it all revolves around strength and luck.

It's about time they got the game mechanics right, the other balance issues will be easier to fix if the way rage worked was rectified and some strategy was injected into the game!


< Message edited by Goony -- 11/21/2011 8:00:24 >
Epic  Post #: 698
11/21/2011 9:53:18   
Remorse
Member

^ Nice ideas goony,

Rage should defintely be looked into as a means for solving balance issues and making battles more Fair.

Some Ideas I came up with a while ago for making luck more involved with rage sytem include :
quote:

I have come up with a few ideas thats purpose it to make luck more fair for individual battles.

-If you crit someone instaed of gianing rage you actuly lose rage, why should someone who crits get the benefit of rage soon after? Dosnt make sence to me.

-If you get critted you gain more rage then normally.

-If you block someone instaed of your rage staying the same, you lose a small amount unless your rage bar is already full, If it is full blocking someone would be like normal.

-If you get blocked you get more rage then you do now and this include a small bonus for the blocking of asimilate,atomsmash,staticcharge.

-If you deflect someone istead of gaining a small amount of rage you get no rage.

-If they deflect you, you get the same amount of rage as if it didnt deflect.

-If you get stunned you gain bonus rage on both turns the openent has.

-If you stun someone, the first turn (the stunning attack) you lose rage and the second turn you do not gain rage.


EDIT:
Also came up with a new one to add,
If the player who starts has less chance to start (note, this takes into account forlower levels bonus starting chance) then the oppenent, the oppenets get a certain amount of bonus rage.
If the deserving plaer starts the other player get no bonus rage.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 11/21/2011 9:58:02 >
Epic  Post #: 699
11/21/2011 10:31:44   
Goony
Constructive!


 Nice remorse :)

I had a think about the calculations and the only thing that came to mind is that rage must ignore the debuffs :(

i.e. smoke and technician, as there is no way some of the tactical mercs or BH could get rage that quick if it was in the calculation.

There is a snowflakes chance in hell it will be changed thou! I think making changes like that are in the too hard basket. More the shame actually as the game is still in testing and development!
Epic  Post #: 700
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