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9/27/2011 18:27:12   
Elf Priest JZaanu
Constructive!


 I have been quite critical about the enhancement feature. I also feel the players who had invested into these features could have gotten more game items.

I wonder, from your perspective, would you rather eliminate enhancements, and have the option to buy more weapons/items or keep enhancements and focus your energy/monies into your purchased items.


Though I do reflect into the past, I also remember when I had a strength staff, dex staff, tech staff and a support staff. I catered my builds to the various weapons I had. I found this enjoyable in mixing and matching. With enhancements, regardless of how their stat distribution, when one adds the various other weapons, it is essentially able to create any build.

I also feel long term progression of this feature will hurt this game instead of providing build freedom.

So what you think is better? Having more items for your varium/credits, or a continued investment within a purchased item?

Please provide respectful reasonings with your opinion.

< Message edited by JZaanu -- 9/27/2011 18:29:38 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
9/27/2011 18:28:59   
Master Volcon
Member

I think that if they would have kept enhancements as armor and primarys i would have had a lot less varium bought. However more weapons owned. Because when buying a weapon I am also afraid of the price to enhance it, not just own it.

Btw, they should raise the inventory past 100, because more weapons = more slots needed.

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AQW Epic  Post #: 2
9/27/2011 18:30:52   
goldslayer1
Member

i think enhancements should have worked like they did in aqw
where u buy the lvl of wep u want.
meaning i can get the lvl one wep and make it lvl 33 so that its well usable at that lvl.
this will give players more diversity on the way they look.
(lets all agree that no one wants to look like bunny borg or tesla armor when u could have something good looking like necro mage)
perhaps allowing a maximum of 3-5 enhancements per wep (thru varium and credits) where u can pick where u want it but up to 10 per wep is ridiculouse
this allows players to buy more weapons look how they would like to look and overall have more fun and not be complicated or limited by their enhancements

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 9/27/2011 18:32:53 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 3
9/27/2011 18:37:08   
AQWPlayer
Member

^
Agree. It would be nice to have AQW enhancement system in ED. Btw I never had one enhancement, all my credits go to weapon variety
AQW  Post #: 4
9/27/2011 18:43:31   
Elf Priest JZaanu
Constructive!


 With the introduction of enhancements, the game has made buying weapons a responsibility. Not only does one buy the weapon, but to make it fully effective, one has to invest into it. It is an incredible amount of work and becomes quite tiresome.

This also eliminates the casual player who plays a little and supports the game with every release. Essentially they have become second tier players, and maybe 3rd tier if non varium players enhanced their items.
AQW Epic  Post #: 5
9/27/2011 18:55:00   
Hiddenblade
Member

id rather have more weapons than enhancments its insane to see people with 50 +66 support or strength. They should refund people who spent credits/varium on enhancments
also then they should change stats of lots of armours like space warrior,bunny borg, bananna suit. Because +4 stats on every stat is not the best combo.
Post #: 6
9/27/2011 20:33:44   
ED Prince of Shadows
Member

I believe that even though your points make sense, it seems to be a bit too late to act upon this. I wish we stopped enhancements in it's tracks when it first came out but all we can really do now is to slow or completely stop the increasing of prices and amount of slots.
AQW Epic  Post #: 7
9/27/2011 20:47:06   
nico0las
Member

AQW enhancements would NOT work in ED. The stats in ED each have their own impact in a big way, each does something individual, whereas in AQW it's simply based on what class you have (Strong classes, such as Doomknight or Berzerker, need Strength enhancements, whilst Sorcerer or Necromancer use more stats on Intellect, or whichever stat it is, I haven't played AQW in a while.) So, In ED, you can have a support mage or a str mage, while in aqw there is no "str mage, support mage", it's just mage.

It's hard to explain.

Anyways, I think enhancements should be less expensive. I don't worry about my items, so long as I win my battles, but enhancements are a big deal to me. I don't have a need for seasonals, except that they're good items, with interesting Enhancement capabilities.
I'd rather have Enhancements, but seeing as, if you want to win, you need both enhancements AND good gear, you can't really choose. It's up to what you can afford.

@jzaanu
quote:

Not only does one buy the weapon, but to make it fully effective, one has to invest into it.

As it should be. Our goal in ED is ultimately to defeat our opponent. Everything else comes second. "Evolve or die". That line has more or less defined Delta, or even all of Epicduel now. You must evolve and develop, not only your fighting style but your items. If you want to win, you need to not only have good gear, but invest into that item. I see no problem in this system, besides how ridiculously expensive it is.

@Jzaanu(below) Very valid argument, it is true I had no idea where the statement came from. But that's not important. I used the statement to show that, if you want to win, you will ultimately have to upgrade your gear. To Develop or "evolve" to meet the current needs of the environment. Epicduel is becoming more and more difficult every day, with new builds, fighting styles, anything. Yes, it is expensive. It's outrageous. But it is necessary. Everything you sited is correct, as far as I see. But really, all I want to point out is, even though this is a game, the point is still to win. Nothing we do will change that. And if winning requires one to spend his/her purchased resources to do it, that is understandable.
In your response to my comment, you responded something I found very interesting:
quote:

Cause everyone else pays, because they want the advantage, then I should to?

I never said we had to enhance. Now, if one wishes to keep up, you may have to do exactly that. That's why I said our goal is to win. Because, like I said about four times, The goal is to win. You need to enhance, to spend the varium/credits to succeed. You don't need to enhance your gear. It is optional. But if you want to compete, and ultimately come out on top, you have to start focusing on big picture, battle. This is the same problem with TLM. To get an advantage, you can switch to TLM. It's not a guarantee you'll win, but your chances go up. Same with enhancements.

Yes, having more gear and less enhancements permits more build flexibility. But in a game where everyone uses the same builds and items, that is hard to do. Take a support mage for example. It's always the same gear used: Eggzooka/bunnyzooka, promo weapon with high enhancement slots (usually, such as Azrael's bane or Frostbane, but there are exeptions), and an energy gun (stun gun, plasma ACP, or Kurz). For a different build, all one has to do is redestribute those enhancements, so ultimately, there is an upside to enhancements. We do, in a way save credits and varium. Yes, I do ultimately agree, enhancements are a threat to the game, but they're not all evil. They do, however, unbalance it, which has caused many players to quit. I believe, honestly, that enhancements were made to shake things up a bit. The game was becoming repetitive, and the team added them to make the gameplay more enjoyable. I suppose it worked, but not in the way they hoped.

I hope we see eye to eye now, or at least managed to elaborate on my ideas.

T600 is correct, the price is FAR TOO HIGH. I could use my varium on many other things, but I use it on enhancements. Enhancements should be far more accessible to the non-variums and varium players alike.

@fay you do realize, though, that the higher level the players get, the more enhancements we will need? Not a criticism, I just want everyone to be aware that the game isn't going to stay the way it is forever.

< Message edited by nico0las -- 9/28/2011 21:02:29 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
9/27/2011 20:52:15   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 I think they should have followed there guts on the origanal idea for gear, you buy the power for your gear much like AQW and i heard this from Cindy on my Buffs V Skins topic, this would have been nice you can get whatever weapon you want and you buy your power level and a stat setup to match that, of course Varium players would get either more damage or more stats then credit players
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 9
9/27/2011 22:41:18   
DeathGuard
Member

I have commited an error, sell some weps to buy enchancements, because they're kind of outdated. Enchancements gives outdated weapons a chance to stand new brand powerful weapons.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 10
9/28/2011 8:59:55   
T.600
Member

The concept of enhancements was actually a good idea at first, because it allowed players to choose the stats that they desire for their weapons, and it would have increased creativity in builds (stat layouts) and it helps add a 'personal' touch to builds. AQW's system only seems appealing because it costs less, but I don't think that it would be good to buy extra stat modifiers which have already been allocated. Would you rather choose 8 stats for your own weapon, or get 8 stats in random areas? I know that the AQW enhancements scale by level but that would not be good for ED because you would be able to use the same weapon forever, and the devs would get less profit from weapons. It would also reduce how fun ED is, because the way that weapons work in ED is alright right now.

The first problem with enhancements is their cost. It just costs too much to buy a set of weapons and then enhance them. Sure, you're not obliged to enhance them, but if you don't enhance all your items, it leaves you with a disadvantage in battle. There is a credit option too, but its price is way too high, and only commited f2p players would be able to acquire enough credits to enhance all their items. Sure, you can combine varium and credits, but did you know that it would cost someone 6800 varium to enhance a gun, aux, primary and armor with 10 slots each? Even if they had less slots, it's still going to cost ATLEAST 3k varium to enhance them all, plus the credit/varium price that you payed to buy all those weapons. It costs around $20 just to fully enhance your weapons, now that is just ridiculous. Enhancements shouldn't be a luxury, they should be attainable by most players. Only 'newbies' should be the ones who can't afford enhancements. Some players will also have to spend credits/varium on things such as: faction cannons, class change, name change, houses, robots and bikes. All these things deplete your varium extremely quickly, and it leaves the customer feeling ripped-off and unsatisfied. That is a horrible feeling to have, and it doesn't portray your company in a good way at all. I know that they've attempted to eliminate some of the cost problems, and I know that the devs have stated that they can't control the amount of varium you can buy in packages, but they CAN control the in-game prices.

All the alterations which have made to the enhancement system have just made everything worse and worse. First they added armor enhancements, then they made the maximum amount of slots to 10 instead of 8 (and they gave every weapon 2 extra slots). Just to make things even worse, we had to have some auxillary and gun enhancements. All these things made enhancements so expensive. When they released aux and gun enhancements, I honestly thought it was a joke. Couldn't they see how expensive enhancements already were? They DID reduce the credit enhancement cost, but that didn't make too much of a difference.

It would be hard to take all this back, but it is something that must be done. It doesn't matter how hard it is to give everyone a refund and remove all enhancements (except for wep enhancements), but it is something that should be done. Enhancements have caused the problems of stat inflation, an immense increase in the cost of everything and they leave the players displeased. I am yet to meet a person who thinks that Epicduel's enhancement system is successful.

So, why would it be better to have multiple weapons rather than just having a few good weapons which have been enhanced? Well, the reason why it's better to have more weapons is, as Jzaanu stated, to allow more build flexibility. Prior to the implementation of gun and auxillary enhancements, I enjoyed switching my guns and auxillary to suit my build, and even switched them sometimes depending on the NPC I was battling. I haven't enhanced all my guns and auxillaries now, so I'm limited with the weapons I can use to their full potential. Anyway, that's all I have to say regarding this matter, for now :P.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 11
9/28/2011 14:43:34   
Elf Priest JZaanu
Constructive!
quote:

From nico0las: As it should be. Our goal in ED is ultimately to defeat our opponent. Everything else comes second. "Evolve or die". That line has more or less defined Delta, or even all of Epicduel now. You must evolve and develop, not only your fighting style but your items. If you want to win, you need to not only have good gear, but invest into that item. I see no problem in this system, besides how ridiculously expensive it is.


From your post, you make it sound as I mentioned, a responsibility. This is a game. And when the sole reason to play is to defeat your opponent, it is quite simple to bank on enhancements in giving the edge. Now should there be a cost in making multi-tiers of players. Personally I don't feel there should be. There should only be 2 tiers, that is supporting the game with monies and supporting the game with heart.

Evolve or Die is such a wishy-washy statement and blown out of the true context from the original Author. I was one of those individuals who seen Shaniqua's post in using this statement. This was a time before enhancements and before stage Gamma. The statement was about creating beyond the norms and adjust to the changing environment. In real life terms, this makes very much sense, but in regard to the current issue of enhancements, it does not. Enhancements is nothing more then another feature to charge varium for. How is this evolving? Cause everyone else pays, because they want the advantage, then I should to? This is a double-dipping feature. Do you actually think you are benefiting from enhancing your items if you pay varium? Wrong. Look at the current stat progressions. For every stat you invest, as you level, your monies are devalued more and more.

Your thoughts are most valor, but it is out of context from my origin of topic. Enhancements don't give players value for their investment, but honestly, it is a continued deterioration of one's monies.

If you enjoy a 5 tool pocket knife that is your choice. I feel personally, most would enjoy having sets of seamstress' utensils, plumber's utensils, doctor's utensils, chef's utensils, and a full tool box for on the go.
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
9/28/2011 17:14:25   
edwardvulture
Member

I've asked many times for them to be undone but all i got was "THEY ARE STAYING" in different forms. Enhancements were a good idea before it went past 8 slots and past where other weapons are allowed with them. It also affects the quality of game play. Who would want to play for a game where spamming a stat (support) and hoping to get lucky could determine the result of almost every battle. Used to be sacrificed that had to be made in order to have an obscene number of one stat, but enhancements are reducing that.
And on topic, yes, of course I'd like more items and it could be the final slice of balance and bring the game out of testing stage if they were reduced to a max of 8.

< Message edited by edwardvulture -- 9/28/2011 17:16:25 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 13
9/28/2011 17:23:48   
9001WaysToLaugh
Member

The point of a game is to have fun,
and a game that isn't, is a bad one,
enhancements have made many people quit,
I think the developers should remove it.
New gear should have more stats, but less enhancement slots,
slowly but surely, our purchase would gain value by lots.
Epic  Post #: 14
9/28/2011 18:52:46   
redxtra
Member

like enhancements were good on just primaries and armor.
enhancement basicly adds more lvl of stats
so a fully enhanced player would have around 8 lvls of extra stats
if enhancements were removed the balance between varium and nonvarium would be smaller
stat abuse would still be possible but other stats would be low and yea.
so there would be more strategy
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 15
9/28/2011 19:45:36   
Xx. Christian .xX
Member

both, if they release more items it will come with enhancements

< Message edited by reyes 89 -- 9/28/2011 21:03:14 >

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Post #: 16
9/28/2011 20:01:14   
Fay Beeee
Member

Well if I remember rightly it was the VERY LOUD STRESSED OUT asking that got the amount of enhancements we have now. Some people always want more!
We were told at the very beginning that they would enhance more than just the two items. I do not remember anyone say. 'No, no do not do this'?

So now we have them.

I do not think it would be possible to remove them. I do not see how they can?
So imo we keep them but do not go higher. I doubt this will satisfy some people though. As they always seem to want bigger and better and more.

And just as an off side here. I quite like using them. They are very handy for tweaking builds. :)

no offence to anyone.

< Message edited by Fay Beeee -- 9/28/2011 20:29:28 >

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Epic  Post #: 17
9/28/2011 20:36:51   
AQWPlayer
Member

^
I would rather have weapons get outdated really quickly so TLMs can't just fully enhance themselves and get the best equipment at the same time :S
AQW  Post #: 18
9/28/2011 20:41:15   
Laces
Member

I'll put my 2 cents in. The way I see it, the basic argument is that enhancements cost too much right now right? In that case, I suggest considerably lowering the price of enhancements and giving players the amount of varium based on the difference of the old price and the new price. i.e. New price is say 800 varium, and someone had a weapon that costed 1700 varium for 10 enhancement slots, that player shall get 900 varium added back to their account. <---This is just an example and not my actual pricing. I think it would solve all the issues if this was possible.
AQW Epic  Post #: 19
9/28/2011 21:14:26   
Algorithm
Member

Items.
Post #: 20
9/28/2011 21:49:08   
Elf Priest JZaanu
Constructive!


 Fay, I do remember and I totally agree about enhancements, updating or upgrading items. We had varied amount of topics about it, but I don't think anyone imagined it would have released to what we have now. When enhancements were released, it just were allowed on armor and primary. I do remember, at the time, Titan mentioned, that those locations were to prevent over use of stats. I don't think many cared about 2/4 enhancements for items. It did help to interchange weapons without retraining, but when Beta was overhauled with new damage and 8+, it changed the landscape of the game.

Though enhancements did add slight adjustments for builds then, but now with our current standards, it makes a major difference between the haves and the have-nots. And as long that the game keeps maturing and new levels are introduce, this system will breakdown. It is inevitable. The game has had the choice to minimize them with every release, but they haven't. I am not sure why. Maybe it is because to keep up with +1 up'ing previous release, it must continue. Would someone would buy new weapons with +4 enhancements while the previous had +8? The build team and the game will have to answer questions on how this trend can continue cause it cant.



AQW Epic  Post #: 21
9/28/2011 22:28:55   
Laces
Member

In this case, 10k varium is equal to less then 5 fully enhanced 8 slot weapons. $50 is not worth 5 weapons. Thats ridiculous.
AQW Epic  Post #: 22
9/29/2011 3:55:05   
TurkishIncubus
Member

Enhancement is fine but its overpriced , 1 wep is 995 varium and to enhance it you need 1200 varium :S ridiculous

I think Devs allow this to earn more money , this also make unbalance the battles between Variums and Non Variums , they are keep harming the game to earn more money.

In my opinion Max Enhance price should be 400 varium or 30k credits , this will make happy all players and 100% balance the battles between Varium and Non varium.

_____________________________
Epic  Post #: 23
9/29/2011 5:42:44   
supermasivo
Member

I think enhacements should stay like this couse i and most varium ppls paid for most of them! a looot of varium... gg (and a lot of credits too)
^ and yes they are terrible overpriced... when u buy a weap/armor u allways have to count the varium price plus varium to enhace (not cheap at all) so, now the weapon never cost 990 varium and 12,000 credits... just like: 12,000 or 60,000 credits or more and like 2k varium. :S
Epic  Post #: 24
9/29/2011 8:46:44   
King FrostLich
Member

Here's what happens of having more enhancements than more new items:


1.) Satisfaction for people who wanted a strong weapon for themselves.
2.) Less time consumed for the devs to create weapons in the future.
3.) Not much lag. It might depend on the graphics and animation of the weapon but if it's only a few then it wouldn't be that much.

If you want to know if there's more items than enhancements, just make the opposite definition/description of 1 to 3.




Epic  Post #: 25
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