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RE: UCaG Guide / General UCaG OOC / Welcome/Goodbye

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7/17/2012 12:44:42   
Dawn of Shadows
Member

Why was everyone so certain there was an SK?! What is WRONG with you people, you did that last game too! -3-

@stealth
My win condition was everyone else dies.

I found a lot of the time people didn't ask the right questions; for example, Hopeful Guy's defense of himself against WA was hopelessly scummy (pick up your towngame, bro). Here's stealth's post on the logic:

quote:

What we know:
1. DuDo and Liam died.
2. DuDo died without flavor, a strongman killed Liam.
3. Liam was a Vigi.
4. Liam was triggerhappy.
5. Given that Liam died and only 2 people died, it is likely that the mafia killed him.
6. Given all of the above, it is likely that DuDo was killed by Liam.
7. Liam was suspicious of DoS.
8. It would have been easier to lynch DuDo than DoS.
9. Given 7 and 8, it would be far more likely for Liam to kill DoS than DuDo.
10. It is likely that DuDo was driven due to what the mod said.
11. Given 9 and 10, it is likely that Liam attempted to kill DoS but that DoS and DuDo were switched.
12. HG is paranoid doctor and protected/roleblocked DoS.
13. Given 12, 11 is wrong and vise-versa.
14. Either 11 or 12 is wrong.
15. 11 was arrived at by logic, 12 was claimed.
16. We do not trust HG. We trust logic. Given 15, 11 is more valid.
17. Given 14 and 17, FoS on HG.


In order for Hopeful Guy to claim the logic was wrong, he had to believe one of the premises was true. The fact that he took it upon himself to only push that it was false, while at the same time not providing any attempt to defend himself or to find out who was lying scum on the process, was quite scummy.

I must say, stealth, I'll be more wary of your inaction next time... I think I noticed a few spots where it seemed peculiar that nobody commented, but I attributed it to your inexperience rather than scumminess. I don't think I'll let you get away with that next time.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 326
7/17/2012 12:53:17   
Selutu
Constructive


 @DoS
The reason that I knew there was a SK was because there was 2 bullet-proofs and one of us was unlimited. Being a role-madness game, that was pretty probable, and to even the odds, there needed to be a 3rd Party Killing role since I wasn't sure if there was a Town Vig or not.
That and I've played too many games with SKs... Tried it in IRL with 2 completely BP SKs once as well.... Stupid role-madness games...
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 327
7/17/2012 14:33:46   
Zafnick
Member

I thought it was certain that there was no SK.
I mean, logically, the mafia killed Liam and Liam killed whoever else died.

Also, I get enough time to log back on for a couple minutes, and I see that the entire game collapses the moment that I leave. Just proof that I am a stabilizing force in this forum.

< Message edited by Zafnick -- 7/17/2012 14:36:03 >
AQ  Post #: 328
7/17/2012 14:46:19   
Hopeful Guy

Hope Upbringer! (DragonFable)


 The whole thing was ridiculous. I think that the scale of the fiasco actually makes the 2 week ban just.
DF  Post #: 329
7/17/2012 16:50:05   
stealthwings
Helpful


 @DoS
Day 1 or day 2?

Day 1 everything I did was attempting to be legitimate and pro-town. I half-considered not checking my role PM, but I was curious, bored, and afraid of lynching a partner if I was actually mafia. Even after I knew, everything I did was still from a pro-town point of view with the following exceptions:
My acceptance of DoDe's inexperience.
My reaction to your gambit. (I had a post written where I suspected Liam, then I felt that it might reveal me, so I very carefully chose what to say so that it wouldn't indicate my guilt. I was afraid I had massively screwed up, then I get told that I'm probably innocent because of it)
Day 2, I did kind of just go after HG and then let the chat die when he targetted DoDe. If he had mounted a defense, I would have argued with that, but Hopeful Guy did not have anything to defend himself with.

Also, if I had been forced to roleclaim I would probably have roleclaimed Paranoid Gun Owner. Would this have been bad?
DF MQ  Post #: 330
7/17/2012 16:58:55   
Hopeful Guy

Hope Upbringer! (DragonFable)


 It would. What if somebody had already N1 targeted you? They didn't, but they easily could have.

Who was the tracker, if we had a ninja?

< Message edited by Hopeful Guy -- 7/17/2012 17:00:04 >
DF  Post #: 331
7/17/2012 17:03:28   
stealthwings
Helpful


 There wasn't one. Ninja meant mini-strongman. (Not stopped by bulletproof, stopped by doctors/roleblockers, why we aimed at Liam, otherwise we would probably have gone for WA)

And this was after everyone had claimed.
DF MQ  Post #: 332
7/17/2012 17:08:16   
Hopeful Guy

Hope Upbringer! (DragonFable)


 *facepalm* I could have STOPPED LIAM'S DEATH? Targeting him would have stopped 2 deaths, while targeting DoS saved one...

< Message edited by Hopeful Guy -- 7/17/2012 17:11:45 >
DF  Post #: 333
7/17/2012 17:11:38   
stealthwings
Helpful


 Yes, you could have.

You had no way of knowing that though.

If you are going to include hypothetical situations like unheard of roles, there is no right option. You roleblocking DoS was the right option if you thought he was scummy. For any regular doctor, WA would be the right option. Randomly guessing that an unheard-of role could exist is pointless.

Edit: Also, I just remembered. My saying "Doctor protect DoS" and not "Flip a coin and protect either DoS or WA" was partly due to being mafia and planning to kill WA. Also because I forgot to re-examine who to protect. I planned to get us to kill WA, and that caused me to forget to reexamine who to protect.

< Message edited by stealthwings -- 7/17/2012 17:14:12 >
DF MQ  Post #: 334
7/17/2012 18:01:01   
King Helios
Member

Read this PM.




Walking home from delivering WA the motivational letter the bus stops next to you. Dawn of Shadows steps out confused probably due to being nowhere near home though the hospital is neatly nearby. You pride yourself on the fact you live so close to the hospital. The bus driver seems to be waiting for you to get on so you do so. Getting seated neatly, you say hello to the bus driver. Something about him seems familiar, but it doesn't really matter. The bus stops, and you walk up to the door saying goodbye to the nice man. As you step out from the bus the chill night-*Bam* You drop down, bleeding from your throat a bullet shot through. The bus drives away, not sure where but you... hope... the hos... pit...

LOL at the kitten letter.

I though my dead-talk was harmless, sorry...nooby mistake.
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 335
7/17/2012 19:27:37   
Zafnick
Member

The whole point of being dead is that you can't contribute anymore.

So less nooby mistake and more not reading rules.
AQ  Post #: 336
7/17/2012 20:10:52   
WA
Constructive


 More not reading rules?
DF MQ  Post #: 337
7/17/2012 20:56:01   
Selutu
Constructive


 It's not a nooby mistake if its stated in the rules is it?
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 338
7/17/2012 21:18:38   
Un67
Member

It really isn't. If it wasn't directly stated in the rules, I suppose it could be forgiven as one, but if you ignore the rules it's hardly a "newby mistake".
AQ DF  Post #: 339
7/17/2012 21:49:55   
Zafnick
Member

quote:

More not reading rules?


I'm guessing you read that as me saying that he should not read the rules?

What I said though is that his mistake wasn't a nooby one at all, it was more of a blatant disregard of the rules.
AQ  Post #: 340
7/17/2012 21:59:47   
Selutu
Constructive


 @Un67
Sigh... Just re-read the rules after your post and noticed that... Well it should be added in just so people without common sense will understand...
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 341
7/17/2012 22:04:07   
stealthwings
Helpful


 Can we stop talking about KH's deadtalking? It was blatantly illegal, we all understand. It really wasn't that bad though, it didn't affect the game, it isn't worth the number of posts it is getting.

To everyone who reads this:
Read the rules at whatever you do. If you like to follow rules, it lets you know what they are. If you don't, it lets you know what they aren't. If you don't care, it avoids a lot of people telling you it's illegal when you do something completely harmless.

< Message edited by stealthwings -- 7/17/2012 22:06:50 >
DF MQ  Post #: 342
7/17/2012 22:31:54   
Reaper Sigma
Member

Well, all this seems hardly befitting of a thread meant to welcome and encourage people.

I don't know exactly what's being discussed, but I can see a great many people pouncing on someone for a minor offense. Really, if this keeps up, the thread is going to get locked again, perhaps without a third try.

On another note, I'm not sure all this discussion belongs in this thread. It is a general OOC, but still, nearly a page of it is about Mafia.
Post #: 343
7/17/2012 22:38:06   
Dawn of Shadows
Member

Our apologies, but Kose has asked us to move discussion on Mafia to here after he gave a two week long ban on Mafia games due to some misdemeanors in the recent Mafia game.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 344
7/17/2012 22:44:56   
Reaper Sigma
Member

I can see why. The oversized font says enough.

How popular has Mafia gotten while I've been gone? I participated in the first one, but I don't think that it made it past the tenth page.
Post #: 345
7/17/2012 22:48:11   
super dude
Member

The last one before this one which was moderated by me went to 19 pages with 13 players.
Post #: 346
7/17/2012 23:12:01   
Selutu
Constructive


 And the game also finished with the first town victory IIRC.

Nice words stealthwings:
quote:

Read the rules at whatever you do. If you like to follow rules, it lets you know what they are. If you don't, it lets you know what they aren't. If you don't care, it avoids a lot of people telling you it's illegal when you do something completely harmless.

Perfect for any games.
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 347
7/17/2012 23:16:33   
Reaper Sigma
Member

From the looks of it, it's change significantly. Though, it may be that the first one didn't use the entire cast of roles.

I think I was brutally murdered in the first one, too.

EDIT: Typo.
Post #: 348
7/21/2012 17:05:27   
Dawn of Shadows
Member

So anyway, I'm getting back to what I said I'd do, and what I will be doing. Let's deal with the issue of how this fiasco went and how it should have went.

1. King Helios
I think there's a very obvious consensus on your actions; you don't need me to lecture you much further on this issue. I admit some fault as well -- Kkut's ruleset may have been slightly flawed in it that I did not directly state what 'removed from play' meant, but I was the one who reviewed that for him. Thus, I will be updating my list of things to watch out for accordingly, and I'll add that to the list of things to be careful of in the future. You've been warned, though, don't make the same mistake again! Other than that, feel free to come back when games begin -- no hard feelings, but I think everybody would be happier if you used your head and asked questions before you charge in like that in the future.

2. liamliam1234liam
I think this one should be put out for the public. Liam, you have a history of being brash and strong-willed. Dude, I like you, you're cool. But I think it'd be best if we take this in a Mafia-style -- does he deserve a punishment, and if so, what should it be? Banned from next game, next two games, etc. Keep it civil.

edit: I'm in favour of banning him from the next game.

3. Kkutwar
Kkut, I know nobody gave you any responsibilities, or told you to do your game in any sort of way. I think, though, that the community is rather irritated by your intervention -- as with King Helios, why didn't you ask anybody before interrupting the game like that? When people join your game, they expect you to be competent -- very blatantly telling your players someone is innocent is not what anybody expected or wanted.

I think this will be a reasonable punishment for you:
In the next game you mod, I want you to mod it with me. I'll leave you to take on the main responsibilities (i.e. votecounts, prods, role PMs), but anything you have trouble with, you can ask me to step in, and I can show you what should be done. Setup can be worked out together with me. And if you want to say something in the game about the players gameplay or anything, you can ask me first. Does this sound like a fair punishment? does everybody agree that this is a fair punishment?



in other mafia related news I will get to updating my page as soon as Kose lifts the lock on the thread, since I haven't done my job partial responsibility goes to me.

< Message edited by Dawn of Shadows -- 7/21/2012 17:06:27 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 349
7/21/2012 17:39:09   
King Helios
Member

By the way, may I be put on the Mod list? (I think I'd be what, 5th?)
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 350
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