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RE: Requiremnts are being abused!

 
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11/9/2011 21:55:46   
altimatum
Member
 

theres no point in reqs, its just a slight annoyance in the end.... oh it's so horrible for them they'll lose 2 damage points

Post #: 26
11/9/2011 22:01:36   
Deimos...
Member

Just think how fun it'd be staying lvl 1 forever and pvping with those 3 skills.. seriously that be awesome id be a lvl 1 emperor
Epic  Post #: 27
11/9/2011 22:06:45   
Lord Nub
Member

^ Hmmm imagine if we were not required to level up to fight.....

Would be interesting for vets but not much fun for the new guys.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 28
11/9/2011 22:08:05   
Deimos...
Member

Yeah Ik i wish they let us do that... speaking of vets... happy veterans day ;D
Epic  Post #: 29
11/9/2011 22:53:09   
Remorse
Member

@ND mallet

Requiremnts that were added recently not their from the beggining or close to the beggining have been failed attempts to balance high levels.
NOT low levels, why would low levels need requirments from skills plus the rquiremnts from thier wepons that would just be insaine.

You have to admit that all the new requirments such as frenzy , HA, Masacre, SA, reroute, deadly aim, blood lust etc etc.
Have been failed attempts to balance high levels not the lower levels. hence why this post is called requirments being abused not requiremnts made from the very beggining are anoying to low levels.
Epic  Post #: 30
11/9/2011 23:07:24   
goldslayer1
Member

@remorse
thats why all those new low lvl aux was just a friendly pat in the back to low lvls but stab them later with them requirements.
AQW Epic  Post #: 31
11/9/2011 23:46:49   
Remorse
Member

^ exactly shame the devs dont realise that the slow movement towards balanced build will not solve the prblem of spamming build because of enahcements and even if it did, Epic duel would be completely lame focus build vs. Focus build levaing non variums destryed and variums overpowered, luck becomes more anoying and complete like of variety and creativity.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 11/9/2011 23:47:18 >
Epic  Post #: 32
11/10/2011 0:10:12   
ur going to fail
Member

I understand what your trying to prove, but as more and more powerful weapons come out.. More "extra points" will be out there ready to be abused or w/e you want to call it. Taking out req.'s and putting in lets say, more complicated cool down/warm up/ability strength configurations, would make this a not so E rated game first of all, put stress on the dev's AND players, even more pain on new players, and I can bet you that it will create a very unhealthy relationship with both dev.'s and players (every OP class would stress all of us, simple req.'s are usually put out, but w/o it what is left? complete skill rebuilding? I don't want to deal with either) but seriously if you think about it, the list could on and on. Add-on: Don't except them to be switching out skills (like with BM) and creating new skills any time soon.
Epic  Post #: 33
11/10/2011 0:17:48   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


@Remorse The requirements on skills are mainly for low levels, not for high levels. Ashari stated herself that they are for helping balance low levels since many skills with requirements are abused quite easily at low levels. They don't fix balance issues with skills. The newest requirements were added because they probably could be abused at low levels. All the passives are great at low levels, Massacre is near god-like, and healing skills are OPd at low levels especially for mercs who have an extra 12 defense from Hybrid.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 34
11/10/2011 0:23:31   
xxomegafaustxx
Member

I would have disagree and say that requirements have alleviated the problems resolved from imbalance in ED. Tangentially, I would have to argue that it is the amount of stats and enhancements available for higher level has a much greater and pronounced effect on the user = openness of a certain build or class.

I would argue that requirements are good; the premise for requirements were designed to be imposed upon users who abused stat piling which resulted into a severity of highly oped strength and support builds. Requirements are parameters that a user must follow in regards of fulfilling a certain amount of stat points points in an area. At the same time, it simultaneously conditions the user's build to be more balanced. What does this mean? It means that users are forced to allocate stats in an effort to advance in their build making in other stats such as support. dex, etc, which makes the user a more versatile entity within the game.

This in no way limits creative builds (arguably), as a user has the opportunity to recompense such points invested in fulfilling the requirement with the use of enhancements. For example, a zooka may have a 30 support requirement but may be enhanced to recompense the stat points invested prior in order to fulfill the requirement. That way, a user's build will become more stratified in terms of sat allocation + more stat balanced. With such a requirement in place, not only does it prevent high spamming builds to form but it forces users to not resort into high spam builds.

Remove requirements and you'll get a frenzy of high stat spamming builds.Requirements act as a buffer against those who adopt such builds and forces users to invest into other stat points.I would agree that it does limit freedom and flexibility of one customizing a personal build, but it does prevent overt stat accumulation.

Now, the main problem that should be addressed is the capacity for users to pool and enhance slots (up to 30+) on a desired stat and not be punished/penalized. Rather with the purchase of varium or credits, a user can have up to 40 stat points on desired stat which has a

Because of this, this has resulted into opness and imbalance. The reason why we're seeing higher levels more oped than lower levels is that:

1) Low levels don't have the ability to enhance as much as higher levels (less enhancement slots than higher leveled players who have more enhancement slots) = greater freedom in distributing stat points.

2) There exist not penalty for enhancing stat points on a higher level. For example, a player can invest up to 40 points in one stat points which creates a user to be severely oped and imbalanced.

3) Requirements only account for a minuscule portion of stats required in a user's build. Say a sidearm has a 40 requirement on support, a user can easily enhance that weapon to recompense the stats lost (invested to fulfill the requirement). Enhancements have no parameter = flexibility = a user spamming on stats = op builds.

We should be diverting our attention to stats and enhancements and not the build or specific weaponry. The class/weaponry provides the template for a build to form whilst the enhancements give the build definition and character to the already formed build.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 35
11/10/2011 0:28:11   
ur going to fail
Member

Don't bring lower levels into this problem at all. If you do just leave. 70% of them don't know what they are doing, and quit. Don't account them into anything till ED brings out a tutorial showing them what to actually do. If the problem still exists for the lower levels, bring in that language translator and still after that it isn't.. We'll start actually worrying about balance on their end.
Epic  Post #: 36
11/10/2011 0:32:13   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


@ur going to fail 70% Don't understand how to play at high levels. They do understand how to put points into a skill until it hits big numbers and put stats to improve the skill. If they didn't then Caster Builds or Bunker builds wouldn't be so popular at low levels.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 37
11/10/2011 1:39:59   
Remorse
Member

@ ND mallet
Ok so masacre enhacements may be justified for lower levels.

BUT what is it really doing??

Maybe a lower level would have to sacrifise a small amount of str into support and thats it , it practically makes no diffrence to people build regardless of level and their will always be way around requiremnts for as long as enhacments are in this game especially since most low level requimrents are filled with the high requiremnts on all new lower level wepons.

AND i don't care what they say I know for a fact that they released most of the requiremnts to TLMs as an exuse for saying they have done something to fix the higher levels when practically it has done nothing except make things worse for the long run.

@omega,
I see where you are coming from but I belive that no amount of requirments will ever stop stat piling if it means sacrifise for a lower amount of health so be it and poeple will do it, I have seen alot of str abusing five focus builds with just as much str as regualr str abusers and it will continue to be the same forever.

HOWEVER I never said problems associated shouldnt be dealt with, I think that they are major problems, problems which can be fixed without the use of requiremnts, eg warm up to maul, decrease rage rate to those with low support.

REQUIRMENTS WILL NEVER FIX THE PROBELMS, They may have short term bonuses but it is only a matter of time before people make just as powerful piling build with the required requirements and I think that is great, variety and creativity is what this game need! And fixing probelms along the way without big side effects or pointlessness is what action needs to be tacken to prvent the abusing of stat piling, eg. stunning first shot and killing before oppenet gets a shot, or not having low defences as a result of spamming a stat. Which is way skill changes need to be made NOT REQUIMREMENTS, I simply cant stress enough, If you dont belive me fair enough but when I finally get to the point that I lose interest at TRYING TO HELP THE GAME as un bias as i posibally can then I wish you all luck for the future of the game. You may need it.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 11/10/2011 1:41:58 >
Epic  Post #: 38
11/10/2011 1:47:10   
Drianx
Member

Lower levels can be easily balanced WITHOUT affecting higher levels by adding level requirements for each point trained in certain skills. Like:

lv1 massacre: requires lv10
lv2 massacre: requires lv13
lv3 massacre: requires lv16

And so on. This was just an example.
AQW Epic  Post #: 39
11/10/2011 1:47:29   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


@remorse The fact that many new reqs were on the TLM skill tree brings me back to low levels. Don't forget that a low level player with varium has access to TLM. A low level with Hybrid is deadly enough when you have high strength but adding Smokescreen to it makes it much worse. Smoke also makes Artillery Strike do more damage as well. A large majority of TLM skills are easily abused at low levels thus they need reqs to help balance things out. They can't change the skills at low levels for fear that it might break high level balance. Everyone who's played through the levels can tell you a low level build is much different from a high level build. The effectiveness of skills change over the levels and until they find out how to put an end to that they'll have to stick with reqs to balance low levels.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 40
11/10/2011 1:48:37   
Drianx
Member

@ND: see my post above yours.
AQW Epic  Post #: 41
11/10/2011 1:55:32   
Remorse
Member

@ ND
Here is a post of balance changes by cinderella

quote:

October 13, 2011
We’ll be continuing with balance updates, including a slight revamp to the Tactical Mercenary skill tree in the coming weeks. I know many of our players were upset by the addition of requirements to the Tactical Mercenary skill tree, but when 40% of high level players are playing as one class, and defenses of the class reveal that there are only a handful of highly-specific builds that can defeat one build of the class (while being completely weak to any other build the class can put together), there’s something wrong with the class. Which class one choses should not determine the winner before the battle has even begun.


Huh seems to me that they didnt mention anything about low levels being Oped as TLM as it is not 40% of the population made up of low levels rather high levels and which the specifically said the requirments are "intended to fix" pitty they didnt do that at all.

Also as a side not notice how they say slight revamp over next couple of weeks, that didnt happen, that would of been perhaps the balance changes that might actuly help rather then another set of requirments restricting creativity.
@Drianx
I agree, if lower levels were really the problem rather then a side mask to prevent further complains then they would of just put level restrictions.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 11/10/2011 2:10:23 >
Epic  Post #: 42
11/10/2011 2:32:35   
Luna_moonraider
Member

yeah i know wat next energy requirement and hp requirement. epicduel is turning into wat i predicted epic 5 focus duel. look on the bright side (oh there is no bright side for me) non varium str builds are gonna be useless so varium players should celebrate as they can still use a 5 focus str build. since non var support build and str build are now gonna be useless non vvars cant do fast wins so varium players will most likely win 2v2,2v1 and 1v1 daily so dance around if u are a varium because non vars are gonna be garbage after this update and soon all non varium will fall so gl to all non varium(gl to me too).

< Message edited by Luna_moonraider -- 11/10/2011 2:33:13 >


_____________________________


AQW Epic  Post #: 43
11/10/2011 2:43:48   
Drianx
Member

@Luna

Sadly, this is likely to happen, but this is because the balance team does a terrible job. Here's some examples:

- When they were supposed to nerf ONLY heal-looping mages, they nerfed ALL high HP builds instead by adding Agility.
- When they were supposed to nerf ONLY support mercs, they nerfed ALL support builds instead by trashing Field Medic.

So it is likely that, instead of nerfing ONLY the str TLM builds, they will nerf ALL str builds, whether OPed or not.

Imminent failure is obvious.
AQW Epic  Post #: 44
11/10/2011 2:51:08   
Remorse
Member

^
At least those changes actully fixed the problem only thing requiments are gonna do is ruin the game for the future and make it alot harder for non variums.
Epic  Post #: 45
11/10/2011 2:58:00   
Luna_moonraider
Member

OFF topic: weirdly npc are not affected by the balance update how i wish i was a npc XD. light city guard heal 26hp with 17 energy XD.

@ remorse

naw they will make an all credit bot for the non variums and epic duel will be know as epic 5 focus duel because every1 will be using a 5 focus build literally.

Back to topic: I also wonder if the devs would make energy and hp as a stat requirement if they do gl ed or should i say e5fd


< Message edited by Luna_moonraider -- 11/10/2011 3:00:47 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 46
11/10/2011 3:07:03   
ngshuyi94
Member

^ Hey luna, any ideas when they're coming up with the new bots? Cant wait for it! xD

It will be cool if i can finally try 5 focus builds, lol.
Epic  Post #: 47
11/10/2011 3:24:38   
Remorse
Member

@ luna, yes they may evetually be able to use a focus build.
But vs. a varium focus build they will lose even more, because at least in beta or before the TLM period Non varium were able to compete with wackey builds crazy variety etc.

YET THEY CONTINUE TO DESTROY THIS GAME SLOWLY AND IM FORCED TO WATCH IN COMPLAIN IN THE HOPE THAT SOMETHING RIGHT MIGHT BE DONE!
Epic  Post #: 48
11/10/2011 6:07:46   
RageSoul
Member

Nope , for me it definitely isn't . They exist because it not only limits your build but also to test us in smarts too . Plus , I don't think it's just skill requirements that's preventing spammer builds / making abuse builds , but also the weapon requirements .
AQW Epic  Post #: 49
11/10/2011 6:35:30   
King FrostLich
Member

For some reasons, it limits classes from using such amount of power over just one stat. Then again, I've wondered myself in this topic which I am currently laughing about....why is everyone complaining when most of us are high leveled. Surely most of you will say King Frost, we are concerned about our balance issues etc. yet come to think of it, all classes can be 5 focus with 103+ hp at level 34. Doesn't that just suffice the requirements rather than complain about it?

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Epic  Post #: 50
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