RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread


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1/13/2012 10:32:36

Wiseman
Member

@Remorse: Well since you can only carry 2 consumables at a time, there's no guarantee that everyone will carry that item, and it would only stop bots for a few turns, not the entire battle.

Also I thought the yeti special was reusable, I'll have to check on that later to confirm. In any case I'm sure if the one-time use ideas become popular, the developers could eventually make it possible.

< Message edited by Wiseman -- 1/13/2012 10:34:44 >

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Post #: 501

1/13/2012 10:49:46

Lenofor
Member

quote:

Also we believe that "First Turn" is overpowered, and are considering ways to improve the second turn players chances of victory, suggestions for that issue are also welcome.

How about a rock scissor paper mini-game at the start of every match? The winner gets the first turn

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Post #: 502

1/13/2012 10:52:06

Gepard Acht
Member

^ so much for support being a bit of influence

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Post #: 503

1/13/2012 10:52:43

SouL Prisoner
Member

@ ^^

lol

or got a better idea!!

a new stat(luck) that improves ur chances of getting 1st turn !

and the stat can do some more improvements , which need to be given a thought !

< Message edited by soulprisnerx -- 1/13/2012 10:53:22 >

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Post #: 504

1/13/2012 10:59:18

Remorse
Member

I am quite sure the yeti special is one time only, which is why I complained when they also made it blockable aswel. It cant be abused with a one time restriction ..... So why make it blockable aswell....

So im sure many bot ideas with potential to ne oped like my damage sheild one, but with a one turn restriction it should be a balanced way to stop thise extreme builds who rage third turn and kill you without a dam thing u can do about ot despite the failed attempts to sheild make em rage faster...

Epic	Post #: 505

1/13/2012 11:01:30

Wiseman
Member

The problem isn't who goes first, the problem is the advantage that first turn gives. Right now first turn gives way to large of an advantage over the player that goes second. One idea is to give the second turn player a 25% bonus in their starting rage, we have also considered making some skills unusable during the first turn, though I won't say which ones at this time.

< Message edited by Wiseman -- 1/13/2012 11:02:17 >

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Post #: 506

1/13/2012 11:03:36

Digital X

Beep Beep! ArchKnight AQ / ED

@Wiseman, Remorse Less:

An exert from the Baby Yeti's Wiki entry:

quote:

The Baby Yeti's special does 60% of regular bot damage (before defenses) and disables both targeted enemy gun and auxiliary for 2 turns. The special is physical, blockable, and can only be used once per battle even if there are two opponents.

Just to clarify.

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Post #: 507

1/13/2012 11:04:53

SouL Prisoner
Member

@wiseman

1 complicated ques , if a legion players completes legionmission's(get the achievement) then joins exile does all the exile mission's , except the one that gives achievement !!

so now ques is , will he still be punished ???

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Epic

Post #: 508

1/13/2012 11:06:14

Calogero
Member

Just to Add Digital X...

Special IS reusable if the Special misses on the previous turn

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Post #: 509

1/13/2012 11:06:48

Remorse
Member

Thats the thing, starting is only a major advantage when you verse these powerful build my favorite example is blood mages. Versing most average focus build I dont even notice the starting advanatge ...well you get my point.
If you make a way to slow down the power builds then they will need more then just starting to get their free win.
My opinion anyway.

Epic	Post #: 510

1/13/2012 11:09:36

Wiseman
Member

@soulprisnerx: The punishment only effects players that have both achievements, as for the future, I think having achievements that change alignment with the player would be cool. So if you got the legion cheevo and then changed to exile, the achievement would change to exile with you, however you still would not be able to get both at the same time. The only problem with that idea is, if you do the exile mission after changing from legion, then it could cause a problem since you already have the achievement. I think that both missions of both sides should be connected in a way that if you do one version both of them become locked.

Honestly thought this is the wrong thread to discuss that issue in, it should really be discussed in the design notes thread.

< Message edited by Wiseman -- 1/13/2012 11:12:04 >

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Post #: 511

1/13/2012 11:22:17

Shadow Rouger
Member

quote:

quote:

The Baby Yeti's special does 60% of regular bot damage (before defenses) and disables both targeted enemy gun and auxiliary for 2 turns. The special is physical, blockable, and can only be used once per battle even if there are two opponents.

Those that mean, If my yeti was to do 50 damage, it would do 30? Or does it minus defence after? If it doesn't, I have a new OP build.
Another question, why cant yeti attack twice or more with the special, you could just make it's cooldown to 4-5 turns...

Epic	Post #: 512

1/13/2012 11:26:48

Wiseman
Member

@Shadow Rouger: Honestly I thought it could be used more than once, apparently I missed the memo, lol. When the Yeti first came out, I believe it was reusable, so it must have been changed after they gave the yeti the ability to cause frostbite. (I think I was unavailable during the testing of the frostbite ability.)

To answer your question though, I think that the bot cooldowns are all connected, so if we change one, we change them all. Although this is a question better suited for Ashari, because she handles most of the skill mechanics.

< Message edited by Wiseman -- 1/13/2012 11:29:10 >

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Post #: 513

1/13/2012 11:30:03

Remorse
Member

Its 60% then minus defence hence why it usally hits 3 odd though i was expecting it to be less then 60%

< Message edited by Remorse -- 1/13/2012 11:33:55 >

Epic	Post #: 514

1/13/2012 11:35:03

Zeoth
Member

@wiseman
Being honest here the yeti bot special skill has been useable only once since its release. I was debating to get it but when I heard the one use bot special I ran away xD

Post #: 515

1/13/2012 11:38:06

Wiseman
Member

^ lol, I see, well I've always preferred my assault bot, and I believe I only used the Yeti bot once since it's release. Even when bots could be used twice in a row, I still preferred assault bot over the gamma bot. :P

The fact is, even if they did make one time use skills, they would not be as powerful as players tend to suggest. A one time use skill can still easily break the game, lol.

Below: Yeah I believe I used it multiple times in a battle before, cause I remember it working once, then getting blocked during that same fight. However I suppose I could be wrong, since I was pretty busy with other things at that time.

< Message edited by Wiseman -- 1/13/2012 11:40:42 >

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Post #: 516

1/13/2012 11:39:09

Remorse
Member

Well it was orignally inf. For like a few days from memory, I mainly ran because of ot being blockable. It would be like having ur shield blocked... It just completely destroys the stratgy and purpose.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 1/13/2012 11:41:57 >

Epic	Post #: 517

1/13/2012 11:39:44

Zeoth
Member

I had gamma for the longest time with my merc. Alway wished I won the assault in the arcade then -________-

Edit: they should make the special unblockable due to the fact it frequently does low damage

< Message edited by Zeoth -- 1/13/2012 11:42:10 >

Post #: 518

1/14/2012 2:40:36

RageSoul
Member

quote:

We will probably give mercenaries a new passive however, and currently we have a few options, our most popular one is giving them a way to passively increase their rage.

Other options include: Passively boost their aux damage (works like deadly aim but with lower percents), passively give their attacks a slight def/res ignore factor (this one is unlikely), passively boost the damage of their attacks (works like the def/res ignore but in the opposite direction, which is also unlikely to happen *this would not work like diamond blades, it would work more like old-school focus*).

Hmmm , what about their HA ? It became weaker and that's why i thought giving them an energy gain would suit them , but let me just make an opinion each on these good ideas :
*Increased Rage - affects STR and SUPP , but i think it can abused considering that it stacks with Criticals ( e.g Bunker Buster Criticals )
*Deadly Aim-like passive for Aux - Good , except that Aux recharges for 3 turns , however , that isn't enough to buff them.
*Passive Def/Res ignore - can also be abused by STR and SUPP .

I'm not degrading your ideas Wiseman , but that's what i think for now about these ideas .

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Epic

Post #: 519

1/14/2012 3:23:06

Goony
Constructive!

quote:

Also we believe that "First Turn" is overpowered, and are considering ways to improve the second turn players chances of victory, suggestions for that issue are also welcome.

I gave a detailed suggestion about how to negate the effect of 1st turn and it relates to how rage works. It would also counteract the high health tanks (125-139)

quote:

We will probably give mercenaries a new passive however, and currently we have a few options, our most popular one is giving them a way to passively increase their rage.

Really don't like this idea with rage working the way it does now! I can rage on the 3rd or 4th turn easily now with decent support, which really takes away from the surgical strike effect.

I do like the idea of another passive for mercs. How about a passive connect chance buff, the opposite of shadow arts and the effect that was used on the St Patricks Day weapons. This would help mercs a bit since the high dex builds are really making it hard to use the basic skills that Mercenaries have...

< Message edited by Goony -- 1/14/2012 3:30:18 >

Epic	Post #: 520

1/14/2012 3:31:13

Remorse
Member

With thought over wisemans sugestion of consumables.

I have come up with a possible system.
Rather then having only 2 consumables you can have 3 BUT their are 2 normal slots for hp/energy boosters and 1 slot for an effect consuamable.(Only one and it has to be an effect one)

Some effect consumables ideas.

Iron shell.
A consumable sheild which, when used pop's up a sheild that ruduces all incoming damage by 50% of the hit that would of occured had this sheild not been on (in other words after the attacks is caluclated past the defences it is then reduced by 50% not before)
Last two turns and does not give the oppenet rage on their attcks while the sheild is active.
Cost: 50 credits.

4 leaf clover.
An automatic consumable (wont waste your turn) which causes bad luck for one turn to *fail* agianst you. For example if you were going to get blocked, the clover gets used up and it cancel out the negative luck so instead you hit a normal hit. to make it clear it was used, when the strike hits succsfully but would have blocked their would be a little clover above the damage showing that you would of been blocked had the clover not automatially steped in.
Works the same for crits, so if the oppenent crits you instead they hit normal damage with a little clover above their attack to show the crit was canceled out, also works for stuns and deflects.
NOTE: You only get one clover per game if you choose to equip it in your consumable slot, It does not stop more then one luck occurance.
Cost: 10 credits ( because it will most likely be used every single battle because its automatic).

Wire Acid
An automatic consumable which cuases your oppennets robots special to fail, it works by having a icon which says *fail* when your oppennet tries to use their robot's special, BUT they get their turn back agian and they do not gain a warm up.
Can only be used once per game because the consumable is used up.
Cost: 10 credits (because it would proberly be used most battles because it automatic)

Possible addition consumable's slots.
Instead of equiping a consumable every single battle instead you can equip an item which fits in the same slot which has an infinate amount of uses BUT it can only be used once per battle then goes in an infinate cool down.
The items to replace consumables would be varium only because it seems fair that a varium player get the luxury of not needing to equip consumables all battles.

Examples of the items name.

For
The consumable "iron shell", the item name could be called Iron armour and would cost 1000 varium. (gets equiped in the effect consumable slot.)

The consumable "4 leaf clover" the item name could be called basket of clovers and would cost 500 varium. ( gets equiped in the effect consumable slot.)

The consumable "wire acid" the item could be called wire cutters and would cost 500 varium ( get equiped in the effect consumable slot.)

And Last but not least
The same thoery could be used for the good old health/energy boosters and packs.

For health/energy boosters the item could be called health/energy barrel. cost would be 750 varium each. (equpied in normal consumable slot)
For energy/health packs the item could be called health/energy potcost 250 varium each. (equiped in normal consumable slot)

NOTE: if a player wanted 2 health barrels they would have to buy two of them and equip them both, same with energy barrels etc.

Recap of how it works:
ITEMS are suppliment of consumables which stay equiped aftering being used and can be used infinate amount of times BUT only once per battle.
They are an alternate to cheap normal consumables with the exact same effect excpet you do not have to equip them all the time and you do not have to pay all the time rather a one time paymnet.
They are varium only because consumables are still open to non varium players except they have to purchase them with credits and equip them everytime they use them.

Hope you like my idea and thanks for reading.
Remorse Less.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 1/14/2012 3:36:47 >

Epic	Post #: 521

1/14/2012 4:32:42

theholyfighter
Member

Cybers need no buff nor nerf, as well as Tacticals. They're quite balanced and worth spending 50,000 credits. I just changed from Blood Mage to Cyber......Now Blood Mages really need a buff.

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Epic

Post #: 522

1/14/2012 6:11:50

TurkishIncubus
Member

Im a CH so im not saying its not OP, i will just tell my opinion.

I think TM-CH-BM is well balanced, they are almost equal with right builds, TLM-BH needs very very very small buff to be more effective. And Merc needs a new passive to be equal with others.

This is just my opinion dont get mad. But i dont understand how can ppl think CH is OP but TM is not. TM vs CH 90% ends with TM victory :S, SC is super powerfull, i think its better than massacre now.

I played as TM-CH yesterday, and they are equal in my opinion, the reason i choose ch is because i like tank-str more.

Epic	Post #: 523

1/14/2012 6:15:42

Dendavex
Member

I like the way people who say TLM are oped are now Cyber Hunter talk about hypocrites
I dont want to sound paranoid or something but do the mods always plan the next oped class to double their profit, anyways I'm gonna stay uped.

Epic	Post #: 524

1/14/2012 7:16:23

RageSoul
Member

Lol it's kinda funny that only a few people ( including me ) post about Mercs getting a buff .....

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Epic

Post #: 525

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