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The Age of effects.

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12/14/2011 6:55:29   
Remorse
Member

Seams to be the fashion now days to release wepons and robots with little buffs/effects and my guess is that it will continue on this path possibly becoming better and better.

My concerns are how far this might go and will it stop at the point were battles become out of control with the little effects making LUCK and even larger determinate of who wins.

Dont get me wrong I like these little buffs and could be a handy way to distinguish a wepons use from each other now that enhacments have destryed most of a wepons worth through stats.


I do hope that at the same time that all these effects get made there will also be "anti effects" which counteract them to ensure players with the desire can play defesive and not be destroyed by luck.

Some example of "anti effects" already include the auto bots "debuff" and the celtic wepons Increased connectivity.


The new frostbite special is great but it does force LUCK to claim victor to many unfair battles.

Some example of ways to fix the possible uprising of these effects could be the introduction of some Anti-effects some of which I have come up with include.

"The Disinfector"- a Robot with a passive special abialty to stop the oppenets robot's special from working, However each time it does stop the abailty it uses up your turn and sends you robot into coolddown.

"The Defender"- a robot which special abailty passively reduces the chance of being infected with the side effects, the amount by which the chance is redcued 75%. example wepons has a 10% chance to stun it now only has a 2.5% chance to stun.
(although this bot may not seem very useful now it may be in the future when more wepons with effects are made.)


What do you guys think about the future of this game in terms of little buffs and effects from robots and wepon side effects.

Discuss, also disuss whether you think action needs to be tacken to stop them being abused.



< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/14/2011 12:00:49 >
Epic  Post #: 1
12/14/2011 7:19:20   
RageSoul
Member

quote:

"The Disinfector"- a Robot with a passive special abialty to stop the oppenets robot's special from working, However each time it does stop the abailty it uses up your turn and sends you robot into coolddown.

ADV : Crushes builds with Assault Bot and 4 - 5 Focus builds
DIS : If you're opponent doesn't have a bot , then it's useless .

quote:

"The Defender"- a robot which passively reduces the chance of being infected with the side effects, the amount by which the chance is redcued 75%. example wepons has a 10% chance to stun it now only has a 2.5% chance to stun.

ADV : Decreases luck factors from weapons
DIS : What's the attack damage?

OVERALL : Not balance breaking , just good enough , but balance should be fixed first . And here's another Q : Will it be available to Non-Var players?
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
12/14/2011 7:22:47   
Remorse
Member

IMO Assult bot needs to be crushed or have the option of being crushed in certain battles.

The reason why many STR builds werent soo bad back in beta is cause they didnt have assult and coulnt just debuff their problems away, sorta unfair to those who invest alot into shields and also makes intimidate practically useless as most str builds counteract it making those with intim or wanting to use it have a useless skill, which is why if they wanted to use intim if they had this bot they could actuly use it like it should be used while at the same time stop the ruling of str.
Assult is also a major problem for extreme tanks as they gain the biggist benefit from using the aussult resulting rather unfair battles and a lack of counters for many builds which is why many Oped one are rising.


To answer your question, I would hope the First bot is, so non variums are given the option of having an equal playing ground like it should be, However the second bot would proberly be just variums.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/14/2011 7:32:58 >
Epic  Post #: 3
12/14/2011 9:46:07   
AllenLingChen
Member

PURELY AGREE
We should however get a bot which can passively reduce a player's greatest stat by 20% for a whole battle, so we can passively reduce the str or tech or dex making it still possible to win. And the effect should be a standard strike dmg, like with all stat deducts
^Just saw you in game... XD

< Message edited by AllenLingChen -- 12/14/2011 9:55:00 >
AQ  Post #: 4
12/14/2011 10:58:16   
Remorse
Member

^ Not a bad idea,

However dont forget with my bot you cant use aussault bot therefore you can actuly intim those pesky STR builds reviving the skill.
Epic  Post #: 5
12/14/2011 18:41:17   
AllenLingChen
Member

^I agree with the idea, its just that people with assault bot will be complaining, where as this is a solution as their bots can still be used if 5 focus.
AQ  Post #: 6
12/14/2011 19:08:52   
od
Member

I strongly disagree with having more special effects. Too many games (MQ,DF,AQW) have done the same thing and it's not as fun.
Epic  Post #: 7
12/14/2011 19:52:22   
FrostHS
Banned


 Supported.
AQW Epic  Post #: 8
12/14/2011 23:06:25   
Remorse
Member

@ allen

People who use aussult bots may be angry but rmeber not many people will use this bot so aussult bot will still be great,

The point is aussult bot stops alot of counter builds from working and without counter builds Overpowered build develop easy not to mention the fact that they are easier to use aswell.

People who use my bot to stop aussults special would proberly only be the people who want to counter them, and to open up counter builds will do wonder for balance it will sort of heal itself in a sence.

Plus it really make creative people shine as the smart str users will proberly have a back up plan for being intimidated like they should have and like it was in beta rather then using assult bot which compltely destroys the intmidate skill.

Epic  Post #: 9
12/15/2011 7:47:31   
AllenLingChen
Member

@Remorse
Hmm... Maybe we should get a bot that simply passively prevents debuffing or prevents debuffs for 3 turns with an attack of 60% of robo dmg.
AQ  Post #: 10
12/15/2011 10:56:15   
Remorse
Member

^ Another great idea, The possibilaties are endless. :)
Epic  Post #: 11
12/15/2011 21:35:23   
AllenLingChen
Member

Yeah, or simply reduce assault bot's debuff into 60% :D
AQ  Post #: 12
12/15/2011 21:43:28   
Remorse
Member

^The bot itself is fine,

But it does get abused, HOwever I think they devs/balance team need to get out of the attitude of simply lowering things or adding requirements to do the same thing to tyr to fix their problems.
And actuly fix the problem without ruining the feature in the first place and a perfect way would be to make aussult counterable.

Having said that in many cases the balance team HAS done that but I wish they would contiue to do balance like that without just lowering lowering lowering, its changing that is the key in otherwords provide an upside to what would seem like a "nerf".

Some example include Frezy's change, sure its health gained is lowered if you spam str but its now increased if you dont. Perfect example of how balance adjustments should be like. Rather then just lowering frenzy all together or adding requirments.





Epic  Post #: 13
12/15/2011 22:14:39   
Zeoth
Member

So basically u want increased returns for having evened out stats?
Post #: 14
12/15/2011 22:56:27   
Remorse
Member

^ Evened out stats has nothing to do with it.

I want to make more counters for builds regardless of your build.

For all I care you could be a STR abuser and wanna make sure the tanks dont wanna debuff your smoke.

Epic  Post #: 15
12/15/2011 23:50:39   
Zeoth
Member

Bah don't assume anything I'm a teh Mage
Post #: 16
12/16/2011 3:08:14   
Remorse
Member

I Didnt asume anything,
Im just saying what could be.


You may be a support spamming tech mage and dont want tanks do aussult your malf.


The posibilaties are endless.

The point is in battles these days their arnt enough counter builds around and many that do work have trouble fighting anything else.


That is why its easy for builds to become oped now days and its also why battles reily more on luck and whoever starts.

With counters the victor will usally be the person who is most prepared and have a variety of technics they can use within their build to stop people countering them.

I think In my opinion the only thing that determines and Oped build is a build which cannot be countered easily NOT whatever their win % is.
They are two diffrent things though generally a build with less counters get a higher win % but it is not always the case many could be susceptiable to luck.


That is the problem with many types of STR builds these days watever their class is, wether they be a BH, a TLM, a CH or perhaps a Blood mage even the odd merc, They all have one thing in common a lack of counters IF they start and thats what makes them oped, fortuntaly many of the builds have downside eg, low defences or limited mana making them easy to drain.
But most of the time they end up starting and providing your up agianst someone with a brain you will have to fall back on luck, such as stuns, and blocks.
Give these builds more counters then instead of any old joe bing able to use them succsesfully it would require tatctics and back up plans rather then gaining a sort of free win simplying by being lcuky enough to start or by perhaps getting a stun in.
BUT it wont destroy the builds.

Thats is what I think needs to happen.



< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/16/2011 3:20:04 >
Epic  Post #: 17
12/16/2011 7:03:41   
AllenLingChen
Member

@Remorse
Agreed.
Miss Beta ;(

Luck needs to have less of an impact on this game. Right now, a game is turned literally with a stun, critical, block, or even deflection. This is extremely bad in ED.
I constantly start second, although my enemy is a str tat merc with 30 support.
I constantly get blocked, although my enemy has 20 less dex than me, and has no shadow.
Many times, i would've won battles if i started, or if i blocked instead of getting blocked.
The luck factor really shouldnt be so potent.
Really saying, assault bot isnt that Overpowered as stated, it still grants the enemy a free hit and a partial debuff.
What really turns the game is this such messed up luck factor.
What needs to happen is that we need more fair luck, or have luck have less of an effect, such as block halving damage instead of completely ruining it. Maybe a critical is just 10 extra damage, a stun a 30% lower in dmg due to stunned senses. Something needs to happen, that stops luck from becoming match turners, and more of just "luck."

Something else that is fishy to me is stat progression. Why does it take soo much more points in dex to get 1 extra defense when it only takes less to get 1 resistance?
What fairness is that? Isn't it simply implying that we should use high tech and defense armor? If tech had the same progression like dex, or vice versa, we could simply have a more balanced game. This would make it fair for people who use dex to have the same applied on tech, as they are both useful stats.
AQ  Post #: 18
12/16/2011 10:50:32   
Remorse
Member

I belive that it is not the luck factors that have a problem, Dont get me wrong I think luck is really messed up.

I think it is all the build changes that have lead to luck being SO influencial.

It is all the Builds revolved around Killing quick before they other one does.

Wether it be a Str build or even a regular focus, Build these days need to output extreme damage or have extreme defences to cover them up in short times if they want to survive.

This is possibly why the mascre and supercharge have become increasingly popular.


All succsesful builds these days are powerful and hence the problem for luck, Because slight changes in the amount of power could lead to the opponent having the upper hand regardless of tactics.

Block is worse then ever, WHY? One block could be all it takes to lose a game when you are forced to choose the agressive path and kill before you are killed.

Same with whoever starts, it is SOO much worse now, a comparison would be at low levels, Low levels fights lvl 20 or below I belive are alot more balanced then fights at the lvl cap, why? they arnt all revovled around power however some are BUT because of the amount of counters are defintely not a problem.

THE PROBLEM?
I blame bulk of the reasons on enhacements, the extra stats allowed people to gain above and beyond power and above and beyond defences leading to the increased need for power.

Without them their would be alot more variety in builds as yes you could choose the powerful quick killing builds BUT just because you were able to start doesnt necesarily mean you win, providing no lucks involved.

Not to mention having enhacements forced anying balance features like stat progression(diminised returns), and agialty.
Plus its an extreme rip off.

For those of you who like enahcments consider this,
Is it really an advanatge if you only get the same bonus as the person you are fighting.

Epic  Post #: 19
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