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Blood Mage -- The Dilemma

 
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1/6/2012 1:36:20   
Nexus...
Member

Alright everyone, this could be my longest post yet, but I hope you stick around to read it, because it really matters to me and all of the other Blood Mages out there.

First of all I would like to state a few things. This is not a balance suggestion, it is a balance discussion. I know there is a thread designated for balance already, but feel it is absolutely necessary that everyone see this. Secondly, this is not a flame or hate thread, I do not intend to criticize (and don't believe I do). Therefore, I will ask that everyone remain composed, and constructive :)

Lets get this started. As you may have already seen, I am a Blood Mage, I have been for about a month now. Blood Mage is actually an okay class, with a lot of potential. This being said, it has been neglected, and many find it on the bottom of their list when comparing classes. Those who consistently play Blood Mage are some of the best players we have, as it is one of the hardest classes to use, and requires a great amount of innovation when selecting a build.

Mercenary

Lately I have seen many people also listing Mercenary (the original)as one of the worst classes around, but let me make something very clear. Before class evolutions, Mercenary was on top, and afterwards nothing really changed. Yes, some of the changes to TLM have been reflected on Mercenary, weakening it a bit, but really there havn't been many changes to the class at all since the beginning of Delta. I think the reason why people see Mercenary as "underpowered", is because Tactical Mercenary is the most abused class this game has ever seen. While Mercenary is definitely not on top any longer, I do not think it is horrible either. In fact I am willing to say that it is still on par with the 2 other original classes, Tech Mage and Bounty Hunter.


So what does this have to do with anything? Mercenary shares two of the same skills with Blood Mage, as well as the physical counterpart to plasma cannon. However, the two classes are completely different in terms of playing style and build type because of one thing. Hybrid Armor. Hybrid is widely considered to be one of the top 3 passives, and to many is considered the strongest passive ever. Since Mercenary almost automatically gets a +12 bonus to either energy/defense, the class behind it (TLM, Merc) is able to withstand a huge amount of damage. Because of this, Mercenary is adequately outfitted with Intimidate, a non-defense/res weakening debuff.

Intimidate

While Intimidate is not a weak debuff (no pun intended), it has no real offensive value. Where debuffs such as Smoke and Malfunction both have an offensive and defensive bonus, Intimidate is entirely defensive by nature. While this is fine for a class such as Mercenary (which can take large amounts of damage due to Hybrid Armor), Blood Mage hasneither an offensive debuff, or a defensive passive. While bloodlust could be considered a defensive passive because it regenerates health, the means by which the regeneration occurs is solely based upon damage output (offense). As I stated, I have nothing against Intimidate, nor do I have anything against bloodlust. This being said, I believe together the two form the worst core passive/debuff combination in the game. Yes, Deadly Aim does add towards bloodlust that much more, but even with a MAX Deadly Aim and MAX bloodlust (a very rare combination), the added HP is -- (.23*10)--, which adds a total of 2 health per sidearm turn.

Berzerker

So what is the biggest issue with giving Blood Mage an offensive debuff? It could be extensively abused beyond compare. A one turn cooldown on Berzerker means the would be available in a faster manner then any other major damage dealer, and a lower energy cost would mean it could be used more then once per game. This is why Blood Mage never got the offensive debuff it needed; its combination with berzerker would have been far to powerful. Skills such as Massacre (which can do more damage then berzerker) are given a three turn cooldown and massive energy requirement (not to mention stat requirement.) So did I just disprove my own point? No, just because there is a reason why they didn't give it to us, does not mean there isn't still a problem. In fact, I am sure that if Blood Mage does not get its offensive debuff or defensive passive, it will be seeing its darkest days yet (considering its recently announced changes).


Defense Mechanisms

Aside from the basic class mechanic problem outlined above, recently *announced* changes will also contribute towards what I consider a "loss for the class". Currently, Fireball is a rarely used skill, and while I acknowledge its buff, its practicality still remains sub par at best, with the amount of defense based hybrid armors running about in the form of Tactical Mercenary. Yet, the real problem I have with the coming balance update is Energy Shield. Currently, Blood Mage contains two buffs which directly impact stats; Reflex Boost and Technician. This not only helps with defensive measures, but also with the effectiveness of skills. Plasma Cannon and Plasma Rain are both effected by technology, and are both the least used skills on the Blood Mage tree in terms of level cap builds (majority of the player base). This being said, the only valid reason one would use either of these skills is if they could enhance there effect using another skill, said skill being Technician.


The Energy Crisis

Well, I know what you are thinking right now. Firstly, "when is this going to end", the answer being "soon", and secondly, there MUST be a better reason for the hatred towards energy shield, and its intended implementation on Blood Mage. There is. As Energy Shield implies, its cost boosts your "energy" resistance. However, it also costs energy! So does technician though doesn't it, so whats the big deal? The big deal is that Energy Shield starts at 1 more energy than technician and increases by twofold, where Technician only increases by 1. Because Blood Mage has no means by which to recover energy -- other than Reflex Boost, which doesn't count because it wastes as much, if not more energy then it regenerates -- every EP (Energy Point) counts more than it would with any of the other classes. But there is more! Technician increases with Dexterity, a stat which is vital to hitting your opponent, and therefore a necessity in almost every strength based build. This makes Technician powerful enough to negate pretty much any Malfunction, unless your opponent has an has an extremely high support stat. Furthermore, Technician lasts 1 turn longer than Energy Shield, yet another reason why it is better suited for Blood Mage (as it adds towards that defensive passive it is lacking). To further aggravate the situation, Energy Shield gets stronger via support, a stat that a Blood Mage will rarely use. So Energy Shield will end up giving roughly the same amount of resistance as technician would have (on a normal Blood Mage build), while not improving any set stat or skill, and also requiring a good 25% more energy per use (energy being vital beyond compare to a Blood Mage).


The Energy Crisis II

I would also like to point out that Blood Mage is also the ONLY class that is currently unable to take any of its opponents energy. This means that the class must be extremely quick about taking its opponents health, something that it is unable to do without that offensive debuff. This makes a Blood Mage's energy even more vital, as it must commit a maximum amount of damage in a minimum amount of time in order to stop skills like Supercharge and Massacre from taking their massive toll.


Conclusion

I think that about wraps this up. Blood Mage remains unique in that it doesn't have many of the things that the other classes do. While Cyber Hunter will receive its long awaited second passive (and rightly so), putting it on par with the rest of the classes, Blood Mage has yet to receive a defensive passive, or offensive debuff, either of which would dramatically increase its playability and build options. Furthermore, we now see that Energy Shield will take a larger toll then at first glance, biting into a Blood Mages already coveted energy pool, and decreasing the effectiveness of its weakest skills. I really do like this class, and as I have already said, I think those who play Blood Mage are some of the best we have. Unlike other classes, Blood Mage currently takes quite a bit of thought and skill to play. However, there comes a point where no amount of skill can compete with the further evolved skill trees that represent the other classes. I hope Wiseman and Ashari see this, as it was intended for them, not as a slap in the face, but as a something that is hopefully thought provoking.


I hope you have learned something, or have found clarification in the words written above.


If you have reached this point, congratulations, you are almost done.


Thanks For Reading



Prophet
*Sorry of the typos
*Please do not flame




< Message edited by Nexus... -- 1/6/2012 3:40:58 >
Epic  Post #: 1
1/6/2012 1:47:10   
endtime
Member

The Blood Mage class is fine the way it is except for the "energy crisis" you mentioned. If playing 5 focus/defense tank (ie doesn't smoke), BMs are essentially BHs with Deadly Aim instead of Shadow Arts. I don't know why the dev's removed assimilate. It was a fine and fitting skill to have on the BM. In my opinion, firebolt and plasma rain should be consolidated into a physical multi that improves with strength to make space for assimilate. And yes, I agree that giving BMs energy shield in place of technician is a nerf. Not only does technician last four turns, but it has synergy with reflex boost and the currently crucial stat that top players need (dexterity).

< Message edited by endtime -- 1/6/2012 1:49:15 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
1/6/2012 1:49:43   
bobbyhonkers
Member

I did read it all and from when I was a bloodmage
I used fireball at max level and it worked fine
On tlms normally hitting in the 30's so with this change
To it, it will hit even higher.
Post #: 3
1/6/2012 4:18:19   
InceptionAE
Member

I made it to the point. :D

On topic: I played as Blood Mage once, I HATE IT. Yes it takes a bit of skill but tell me this, what's the point of trying, Both technician and reflex won't give you much defence/resistance. Believe me, my STR BH build kills every blood mage in its way. So I prefer energy shield and defence matrix. Btw, you're right, you have no skill to emp your opponents energy and that's a MAJOR problem. Considering a LOT of classes need to use energy to smoke or malf. Which is the offensive debuff. If a blood mage start first then -35 emp on a bounty or Mage, and it should give a blood mage a higher chance of winning. I definetly agree with what you stated, it's definetly the reason why I hate this class. -.-

< Message edited by DungeonHunter -- 1/6/2012 4:19:51 >


_____________________________

ED~ Inception X
HS~ Chromium
AQW~ Deathblad
AQ3D~ Violent

AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 4
1/6/2012 4:53:36   
Colarndo
Member

I fully agree with the author of this thread. BM is the only class that can't nerf def/resist. Due to our limited/stagnant energy pool, we have to hit hard to regain back our hp as we cannot play the class like a healer. Tech + Cannon was a good build for a high dex build. Now that build has been destroyed by the nerf.

My idea of BM stems from Dragon Age, where when you ran out of mana, you could use your life points/hp to cast spells. ED's version is BM is weaksauce(if you get my drift).
Where is my macho Blood Mage? If there was a skill like converting hp to mp or using hp to cast skills, it would have been cooler.
If TLM gets frenzy which converts damage done to hp, BM could get an energy version which damage done converts to energy(like static charge). Or give us back Assimilate.

If BM is considered a step up from the mage progression, it has been more of a step back for the class.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
1/6/2012 5:53:03   
Jekyll
Member

^ Normal mercs cannot debuff defense and resistance either. The main problem is with intimidate getting killed by assault bots.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 6
1/6/2012 5:57:10   
AllenLingChen
Member

^That is exactly the point. I really dislike assault spam. If the assault bot didn't exist, then inti would actually be very useful. The point is not any class other than merc has field, and in a energy crucial enviroment, you can't really play. This is why i strongly disagree with the staff. They need to seriously BUFF the class, not LET IT DOWN.
AQ  Post #: 7
1/6/2012 5:57:49   
King FrostLich
Member

I has gud eye-dee-ya two feex Blud Magi. Wheee shud hav skil taht drains both stee-rength end suppurt. Taht wey, Blud Magi wheel b feexed.

_____________________________

Epic  Post #: 8
1/6/2012 6:35:06   
AllenLingChen
Member

^Its cool to have 1 hit do 2 debuffs, but i really don't see the point in a supp debuff, as the main prob is high str these days. Unless the devs add in the idea that a debuff below req will prevent skill usage ;D That way >:) SMOKE AND SHADOW AND DA WILL all go down. With a single smoke, hybrid goes down. Too low supp and mass is down. If that was actually true, ppl wont spam 1 stat, and would start actually thinking.
AQ  Post #: 9
1/6/2012 8:36:16   
Wootz
Member

I don't know why you dislike the Energy Shield that much. It wouldn't be alright to have a class that has really low Energy cost per defensive skills and have enough base EP for one shield and an offensive skill ( Berserker ). I recommend you that after the changes get live you make an Support build, which would definetly work as Trans and I already made one.
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
1/6/2012 8:44:04   
SouL Prisoner
Member

@Nexus...


i cliked on ur epic link , but in the character detail page its empty ,there's no1 with ur name link !!!

_____________________________

AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 11
1/6/2012 10:25:34   
od
Member

@Jekyll
Mercs can increase damage with field commander
Epic  Post #: 12
1/6/2012 11:07:32   
TurkishIncubus
Member

I agree BM also needs buff but offensive debuff will make it OPED , imagine Smoke+physical gun(with deadly aim)+Berserker+bloodlust will keep healing, too much dmg in 3 turns

And i dont think its a good idea to give every class a passive shield. Also passive shield + bloodlust + deadly aim is also too OPED.

Maybe replacing Deadly aim with Reroute can make a difference, it will have both Bloodlust and Reroute, Hp and Energy return. Also deadly aim require support which is not fit str builds.
Epic  Post #: 13
1/6/2012 11:33:58   
Arcanis
Member

Reroute and bloodlust in same class? Too much synergy - attack gives you HP,damage gives you MP. As much as I like mage classes,that would be too powerful.
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
1/6/2012 11:44:52   
Ranloth
Banned


I managed to make Support Tank BM build which uses just 44 EP, works perfect with Matrix + Energy Shield and DA. Don't know how well it can do, but Str is quite moderate (61 IIRC, so 15-17 damage) which isn't too bad.
Taking DA from BM would be just different a lot, as original TM has it and seeing as it's Blood Mage - it revolves around using weapons more efficiently (as its description says too), and that's why BL was added. But adding Reroute instead of DA would make it OP because BL + Reroute would be quite a lot (you can but 7 stats into both, and you're left with 19 more for other skills which is even enough)..
But overall, Nexus..., has quite a fair point about BM. Mind that, Wiseman said that Intimidate is currently almost useless skill and they discussed what to do with it and if further balance changes will happen - Intimidate might get changed along with it to be more useful.
AQ Epic  Post #: 15
1/6/2012 12:16:47   
TurkishIncubus
Member

@Arcanis

but they will not have offensive debuff and deadly aim so they will not have major attack power so Bloodlust and Reroute can make it balance.
Epic  Post #: 16
1/6/2012 12:53:34   
Arcanis
Member

@Turky: True,but with high HP and defensive playstyle they could outlive and outenergy all other classes. But your guess is as good as mine,
practical test for it is impossible ATM. Closest to test would be TlM without any HA points and frenzy skill at level that calculated with cooldown delays would return
closest amount of HP as would bloodlust in same amount of rounds.
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 17
1/6/2012 16:50:32   
Mecha Mario
Mechanized Plumber


Please keep all balance related topics in the official balance thread here instead.

Locked.
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 18
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