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RE: Well done LB & In an effort for a better community

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1/14/2012 21:06:26   
Stabilis
Member

I've intervened as a mediator in some throw-backs before (psibertus). When it comes down to it... show mercy, be kind, hide your pride.

Its really hard I see for some people to try and accept or understand another person. I think this is because of one's insecurity or pride... an issue that you HAVE to fix to improve your character.
AQ Epic  Post #: 26
1/14/2012 21:15:15   
Elf Priest JZaanu
Constructive!


 There was some good constructive thoughts within that thread along with many posts that were extremely out of line. I am sadden it was deleted. The release sparked many emotional points and many had the right to express the few difficult issues. Having the right, and how to express are two different issues. Never get emotions get the best of you. By doing so, all of our posts were eliminated. Thoughts, and how one can constructive express them so it is easy to understand is a skill.

Everyone had valid points, but name calling and degrading people for the sake of proving your point is useless. This style of debating never works and has broken many relationships and bonds. Use your words wisely.

< Message edited by JZaanu -- 1/14/2012 21:27:22 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 27
1/14/2012 21:21:45   
xxmirxx
Member
 

 Fay Beeee Im not mad with you or annoyed now to make forums/game better place is to let us express are self without getting staff interfering understand this Lord Barrius you really have no clue how game runs why were annoyed. So don't take personal but do what you say.
quote:

A tip to help you is to look at the post from the other person's perspective. If you were that person, would what you said to them offend you or spark a negative reaction? If so, then you probably went too far and you should try to dial it back. Doesn't work for everyone, but for some (like myself) it can help you catch yourself before you say something you may regret.
I suggest you don't go around delete whole post if cindy or people are getting flame at they can report or delete post. I feel this my view point when you do that your basically saying to staff that you do not feel like they can stand up for themselves. That main reason why I feel flamming and trolling getting worst.

< Message edited by xxmirxx -- 1/14/2012 21:24:12 >

_____________________________

https://www.facebook.com/Humanifestation2
https://www.facebook.com/MikasaAckerman4
like these fan pages please
AQ Epic  Post #: 28
1/14/2012 21:35:00   
Elf Priest JZaanu
Constructive!


 Ashari had the other day eliminated many off issue posts. The reason the thread was deleted, because it spurt very emotional debates and rudeness. When posts like this become connective, it becomes ruckus and out of control.

LB could have continued to eliminate certain posts, but the issue is, it doesn't deal with the emotion within the person. Think of it has a cooling off period. The design notes will likely be introduced, but do be more civil with one another. We are all people, and trying to hurt others will not self empower you.
AQW Epic  Post #: 29
1/14/2012 21:35:05   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 @Gold the bit about data isnt really needed but if you are going to say that CH is OP'ed you better back it up but if you just dont agree with something then instead of just saying its crap say why you think its bad in a non trollish way
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 30
1/14/2012 21:43:16   
IsaiahtheMage
Member

Ok so basically what I understand from his post is nothing besides negative constructive criticism is allowed. Meaning absolutely no trolling,flaming, or insult attempts.
AQW Epic  Post #: 31
1/14/2012 21:44:30   
Chosen 0ne
Banned


 ^Yep, constructive criticism only. Which I for one, feel is appropriate.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 32
1/14/2012 21:45:39   
IsaiahtheMage
Member

^No offence to anyone. But I find it hard to beleive that every single post from every single player will be construtive.

< Message edited by IsaiahtheMage -- 1/14/2012 22:30:23 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 33
1/14/2012 21:46:16   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

Meaning absolutely no trolling,flaming, or insult attempts.

did u just copy that from the new thing im saying at the end of every post?



this isn't a flame, troll, or insult attempt
AQW Epic  Post #: 34
1/14/2012 21:46:44   
xxmirxx
Member
 

 JZaanu people were mad that they might get badge call turncoats which not fair for them and worth 0 Its like punish people who abuse limt time only shops. I am not one was flamming by the way guys so I know I wasn't doing anything wrong. Best way to deal with flame is to do wiseman way how he does it which works.

< Message edited by xxmirxx -- 1/14/2012 21:51:17 >

_____________________________

https://www.facebook.com/Humanifestation2
https://www.facebook.com/MikasaAckerman4
like these fan pages please
AQ Epic  Post #: 35
1/14/2012 21:49:46   
IsaiahtheMage
Member

@goldslayer1 Inspired? Yes. Copy? No.
AQW Epic  Post #: 36
1/14/2012 21:54:02   
Elf Priest JZaanu
Constructive!


 This release has many positives and few negatives. These were all addressed. By not announcing it, it made a very interesting subplot in the story. Though I personally felt it would have some negative impacts, I felt, being part of the war, it does show where one's heart is. Achievements or supporting their side of origin. It will be interesting how it plays out.
AQW Epic  Post #: 37
1/14/2012 21:55:11   
Jekyll
Member

What we can do is think before we post - Will anyone be offended? Will my post stir up arguments?
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 38
1/14/2012 21:59:14   
goldslayer1
Member

@lord barrius

part of the "flaming" or intense argument was because the developers made 2 new achievements
one for exile players and one for legion players.
what u had to do to get this achievement, was accept a mission. and beat the lvl 20 npc of the opposite alignment a certain amount of times.

now what happened was, people who switched factions, were able to get both achievements.
and the staff were annoyed by this, so they decided to make a solution. it was to remove those 2 achievements, and give them another called "turncoat" (basically saying TRAITOR) that gave 0 ratings. basically they were robbing players of a earned achievements. the developers are saying it wasn't right for players to get 2 achievements. and that they were only suppose to get one. but that was the developer's mistake for allowing players to get both in the first place (they could have not allowed it by putting a code restriction in place but they want to punish players for their mistake. and now u know why players are angry at this release.

also the devs had announced that there would be new achievements with the 2 new bosses for the war.
but those achievements were cancelled because they said it would make people want to get both.

and i replied to this saying.

why not just simply make it 1 achievement. both of those bosses are general in the war, so why not call the achievement "general slayer" and have just 1 achievement, so no matter if they switch alignment. they only get one achievement.
basically they made that look like rocket science, and i made it look like a solution even a pre school-er could solve


this could have also been done for the other 2 previous achievement where u had to beat the lvl 20 npcs.
but sadly there was a lack of testing for that release aswell. (meaning they need more testers who can come up with solutions, and sadly IMO i dont think there are many)

quote:

Inspired? Yes. Copy? No.

k lol



this isn't a flame, troll, or insult attempt

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 1/14/2012 22:00:08 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 39
1/14/2012 21:59:53   
Lord Barrius
Member
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: xxmirxx

understand this Lord Barrius you really have no clue how game runs why were annoyed. So don't take personal but do what you say.
It always intrigues me when people suggest to me that I don't know where they're coming from. As if no other game has ever experienced this sort of low before.

Let's take a trip back in time, shall we?

The year is currently 2007, the year I was hired, and most of AE's games don't even exist yet. AQ has been going for a few years now, and is approaching the height of the Devourer Saga. This big, overarching project called the Sweep has been announced and people are distinctly unhappy with the idea of all their favorite things getting nerfed. Numerous dishonest people take advantage of this concern to spread vicious rumors. There's a lot of panic and fear, leading to a lot of rioting.

And then it started, as everything does, with small steps. I (and others) pushed to start including some higher leveled items. Then we pushed for other things people were asking for, and bit by bit, people started to see their concerns getting addressed and their fears assuaged. The people who were preying on those fears began to watch as their hold over people slipped, and eventually, vanished completely. They eventually found themselves no longer needed or wanted, and they couldn't control people and tear down the community any more.

Meanwhile, I take up the writing pen and become one of the team's writers, committing myself to creating the sort of content that I found fun and that other people found fun. I began pushing out scripts for content and people really liked what they saw. And they asked for more, which I delivered. And they asked for changes, which I provided. And together, we put together one of the game's most popular new storylines. Even now, we continue to push for more player input, making things bigger and better, all for their benefit. And fast forward back to the present, where our players have almost unanimously deemed 2011 the best year in the game's entire history. And today, we're aiming to make 2012 even better still. This would not have been possible without all the work it took over the course of years.

We didn't get there overnight, and we didn't get there purely because of me. It took everyone, players and staff working together, to get to the point we are now.

You're all in the exact same situation. Things are not going to get better if you're not willing to compromise, to express your concerns in a way that will get them heard and taken care of. Cindy works tirelessly to give you guys that opportunity, but if you don't help her out, she can't make it happen. This is a team effort. You can't strive to become the great game and community that I *know* you all can be if you're not willing to do some of the legwork to help us get there, too. Some have stepped forwards to help make it happen, and we need that trend to continue. If we instead allow people to prey on others as they have been, then things can't get better.

quote:

I suggest you don't go around delete whole post if cindy or people are getting flame at they can report or delete post. I feel this my view point when you do that your basically saying to staff that you do not feel like they can stand up for themselves. That main reason why I feel flamming and trolling getting worst.
I can't very well delete over four pages of comments and have that go unnoticed. When the problems have gotten that extensive, the thread is pretty much doomed at that point and isn't going to recover without a reboot and some time for the angered parties to cool off.

I would much prefer if people didn't force me to delete that much stuff in the first place. And we can't get to that point without your help. You say I shouldn't delete that much, and indeed, I don't want to....but if the thread gets THAT bad, there's nothing I can do. So it's up to people like yourself to make sure it never gets that bad, so I don't have to step in and be the bad guy.

< Message edited by Lord Barrius -- 1/14/2012 22:02:08 >
Post #: 40
1/14/2012 22:04:54   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

I began pushing out scripts for content and people really liked what they saw. And they asked for more, which I delivered. And they asked for changes, which I provided.

but here in ED the devs (specifically artix about a couple important crucial topics) dont come to talk with us about what we want.
we dont have polls in the forums (to help with decisions)
and when our suggestion do get to them (via suggestion pages)
they find a way to make that suggestion look bad (E.g. the war and the super war bombs that ruined the war alot)


this isn't a flame, troll, or insult attempt

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 1/14/2012 22:10:50 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 41
1/14/2012 22:04:57   
DeathGuard
Member

Well, all I see is desperation and hatred in the community, no longer the community it was when I joined forums, it was incredible warmth and friendly. My posts are seem to be ignored and covered up by flaming posts, someone tries that someone understands something and they flamed you back. This sickness is getting my limits dry out, I have try and make a thread about this community in the future, I was inspired making it and didn't want it to happen and the worst part, it became true! I was inspired by Soliqe to make that thread and many agree with it, too bad I request lock due to flaming issues, giving warnings, banning people, deleting coments, you aren't doing nothing at all, just erasing posts not changing their ways to be, why don't you adress to them even if flaming with a nice post to explain what's going on! The actions taking of banning many people for expressing their thoughts weren't good no matter if it was flaming, they care for this forums, if you don't want to receive feedback or any criticism, don't take the position to handle it out, as simple as that. I'm not flaming neither acussing no one of those attitudes, I'm giving my opinions toward them in general, so if I get banned or receive a warning for giving my opinion, it's fine since I'm not login on the ED forums anymore, the only friends I had here were few but I got a way to contact them so I don't care being around anymore. Lord Barrius, at first I thanked you for making these community better but now you make a mistake and screw up all of your base, you ruined the forums doing that single post, I feel offended and like a simple forumer which opinions weren't counting, just one more single post in the whole forum.

As this is my last reply, I want to say that for those who were banned and received warnings, keep it on and fight back against the Devs, else we will get to the end of this game and an end to our characters. At last, to the ones who think my post isn't right, pm me or whatever, I will read them and reply via pm not here.

Cya guys and take care, for the rogues out there, calm down yourselves but don't end that anxiety of expressing yourselves, you will be the ones and other many forumers that will mantain this community living.

< Message edited by DeathGuard -- 1/14/2012 22:08:20 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 42
1/14/2012 22:07:07   
xxmirxx
Member
 

 first off you still play ED which that issue so you may have experience running forums but knowing game ED. Second off you could have lock post and delete negative comments. Third off like gold explain on top why there annoyed way game going.
AQ Epic  Post #: 43
1/14/2012 22:23:39   
Chosen 0ne
Banned


 @Deathgaurd

I raised you in this game from one of my factions that I recruited you in when you were a low level, good luck in the future, and i hope to see you stop by occasionally to see how things are going on game, and in forums.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 44
1/14/2012 22:25:03   
Ranloth
Banned


 First point mir, what does Forum have to do with game? I mean actual experience of playing the game - it's managing the forum?
Second point, it was answered already and really - crying over deleted thread?
Third, I cannot make sense of it as you use there as they're or their, and "way game going" is just so structured that I just cannot make sense of it..

About suggestions - a lot of things in game is based on what players suggested. Only because it isn't mentioned when released, that it was suggestion - you believe it's Staff's job?
And about War - Cindy said that next time, as well as Wiseman IIRC, they will make the war less pay-to-play so it's fair for everyone. It's first War ever in ED so it's understandable. -.-

Also AQ didn't start up as easily as it seems. There was period when they needed the money and in return they got really rare items that were only available through doing same payment about 5-10 times even (so at least $100 probably). Why? Because game needed help and players supported it, and graphics were a LOT different back then.
AQ Epic  Post #: 45
1/14/2012 22:28:35   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

First point mir, what does Forum have to do with game? I mean actual experience of playing the game - it's managing the forum?

because it will help lord barrius understand the frustration on player's post when they complain about something in the forums.
lord barrius doesn't know why they were arguing about. (the turn coat cheevo for the most part and the devs making mistakes in the game)
all he knows is that they were arguing. and thats about it.

then deleted the post with flaming, trolling, insulting, etc.
to me thats either being ignorant or managing the forums badly and IMO thats not the way to go about things.


do u see cops arresting people in a crime scene without knowing what happened?

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 1/14/2012 22:29:38 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 46
1/14/2012 22:30:02   
IsaiahtheMage
Member

@Chosen One then I'm going to have to agree with Deathguard. @Lord Barrius Giving people warnings, deleting their post, and banning them because their post contained flaming,trolling, and wasn't constructive changes nothing at all. I'm not saying flaming and trolling is good of course it is bad and should not be happening. But deathguard is right you have encouraged it even more. This is making people even more angry then before many players are going to see this as a way to hush them up or not talk bad about the game at all or you'll be banned. Its just sad.

AQW Epic  Post #: 47
1/14/2012 22:30:11   
BlueKatz
Member

To be honest I don't quite understand what are you guys trying to achieve here...

I see you guys "post" a lot but to be honest, I don't see the deep purpose in your post: It's just always about this and that blah blah blah, I rarely see post that actually useful. I don't see how that gonna help the game as you clam because when even staffs read it, it just lead to nowhere.

Sure it's necessary to "flame" in order to get staffs attention to the issue, but I hardly see how informative it is when 75% of the post is just whining and insulting
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 48
1/14/2012 22:32:27   
Stabilis
Member

Haha I didn't understand where you were going with your comment until the last 2 sentences ;P
AQ Epic  Post #: 49
1/14/2012 22:33:16   
Lord Barrius
Member
 

 xxmirxx/gold: Firstly, I was speaking from my experience as a game staff member, not as a forum moderator. As I said, I have plenty of experience with working in an environment where players feel as though they aren't being given their say. Years of it. If anyone is qualified to speak on this matter, I think my game's players would agree that it would be me.

Secondly, ED is not different, at least not in the way you perceive it to be. ED is certainly a different game mechanically and the specifics are different, but like any other game (AE or not), it is tangling with some of the same general things that numerous other online games have dealt with and will continue to deal with. And just like any other game, it can't get better if everyone doesn't work at it ....and work at it the right way. There's an easy way to do things, and a right way to do them. I tend to prefer the right way, which means we need to strive for constructive, educated debate and discussion of some of the problems you feel are making the game poor in your eyes, rather than vicious attacks on each other that often get much too personal.

Third, and perhaps most important, have you considered that some of the things you don't like, others might like? I notice you say that "they find a way to make good suggestions look bad"....but that's not actually possible. If something is a good idea, it can certainly be executed poorly but that doesn't stop making it a good idea. Yet you're saying that they're making that good idea into a bad one. That doesn't make sense. If it's really so bad that it should be removed from the game, wouldn't that suggest that perhaps it was just a bad idea from the very start? Just keep in mind that other people have other opinions, and that when you're yelling and screaming about how much you hate something, it's going to make people who LIKE that idea too shy to post for fear of being attacked for their opinion. You can't get an honest overview of how people really feel if you keep scaring them into only expressing their opinion if it aligns with yours.


DeathGuard: I'm afraid I don't understand. Because I punish people for being disrespectful to other people, insulting them and scaring them off....I'm the bad person and they aren't? This does not make sense to me. My only goal is to make sure that everyone gets a chance to make their opinions known without someone else jumping for their jugular because they don't see eye-to-eye. Nothing gets improved by attacking people you disagree with. Compromise is forged by educated disagreement and debate, not by flaming and insults. If your stance is that I shouldn't get rid of people or posts which exist only to degrade other people and hurt their feelings, then I'm afraid we'll simply have to disagree on principle. It's my job to give those people a chance to express their opinions too, even if you don't like it or agree with them, and I'm not the sort of person who can just allow people to rip each other apart like that. I care too much about the opinions of my friends, my fans, and my community to let that happen to them.

I'm sorry if you disagree. But I do not believe in allowing people to be rude, degrading, and hurtful just to make a point. Not when the same points can be expressed without the other person being ripped apart by the very community he/she is trying to feel at home with.



I actually think I'm going to lock this up soon as it's technically discussion of forum policy, but I'll leave it for a little while longer so you can all have a chance to get your thoughts fielded. I'm very much open to hearing what you have to say. Just try to keep it constructive and well-thought-out, so that we can have an intelligent and thoughtful discussion on these things.
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