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RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread

 
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2/29/2012 16:30:00   
TurkishIncubus
Member

I use 68 str(16-20+35) and 131 dex(52 multi shot dmg) so one of it require 22 energy(multi shot) and one of them require 0 energy(strike) and how Strike is more powerfull than Multishot???

So whats the point of spending 22 energy for a strike dmg :/ and even i use much higher Dex for 68 dex Multi shot do 39 dmg Ridiculous!!!

Here is an other balance problem.
Epic  Post #: 676
2/29/2012 16:37:26   
Stabilis
Member

quote:

and that reflect damage system coould be for another class too, not only CH.


By the way, thanks for the compliment from earlier. Though Gold wasn't directing his opinion ^ on my suggestion, we've already chatted a bit.
quote:


The things is that the skills are OP'd.
Just the Blue rain one and the one which improves connection or whatever.


So Wootz, Blue Ruin and Cyber Arts are OP, eh? To be honest, I haven't fought anyone with my suggested skills, so you will have to reason with me without using analysis. Is Cyber Arts a step up from Shadow Arts? Shadow Arts can negate damage, Cyber Arts can concede damage. Now, every attack inflicts damage, so the rarity would be removing it. Shadow Arts would be infrequent in comparison to Cyber Arts, where Primary accuracy is simply having your attack hit <- not anything too special there. Shadow Arts promote a much more rarer feature... blocking. Blocking reduces ALL damage. If every moment that SA blocks an attack, and every moment CA permits an attack, which is more profound? Blocking. IF you were talking about The poison resisting feature in Cyber Arts, we must use analytics to see just how many counts of a poison skill are being used. Now, 3 of 6 classes have poison. We will cut out "half" of all players. Right now less than 50% of all players are using poison. If I can get my nerdy hands on the Battle Tracker, I will see just what percentage of these 3 classes are using poison... since poisoning is among the more high-levelled tiers of skills, we will count it as 1 of 3 chosen attack skills. 50% times 33% is about 17%. 17% of all players theoretically will be actively using poison attacks. Cyber Arts being a passive skill will benefit 100% of it's abilities, 17% of the time. I would consider that to be less than powerful. Not only that, but the poison is not negated, only 50% of all poison damage.

Blue Ruin, though? Allow me to compare this to Bludgeon, a high damage skill... looks like you got me to log onto ED, as Bludgeon's percentages are not mentioned in the wiki.

It seems that Bludgeon's max percentage is 55%. As in my own experience critique the attack skill to be of high damage, I will nerf Blue Ruin to it's level. *edited suggestion*

While it is not OP, Bludgeon is closing in on ultimate skill power. I have adjusted Blue Ruin to match Bludgeon in power. Perhaps my attack skill was out of range, thank you for highlighting that skill.


A Cyber Hunter's suggestion towards repairing Cyber Hunters

i) Steps

►Remove Plasma Armour

►Remove Shadow Arts

►Remove Malfunction

►Remove Cheap Shot

►Add Plasma Aura

►Add Cyber Arts

►Add Blue Ruin

►Add Energy Shield

ii) Descriptions

▼Plasma Aura▼

Anytime a user of Plasma Aura is struck by a Primary weapon, the attacker is dealt bonus shock damage.

Level 1: Attacker takes 1% of their total health in damage.
Level 2: Attacker takes 2% of their total health in damage.
Level 3: Attacker takes 3% of their total health in damage.
Level 4: Attacker takes 4% of their total health in damage.
Level 5: Attacker takes 5% of their total health in damage.
Level 6: Attacker takes 6% of their total health in damage.
Level 7: Attacker takes 7% of their total health in damage.
Level 8: Attacker takes 8% of their total health in damage.
Level 9: Attacker takes 9% of their total health in damage.
Level 10: Attacker takes 10% of their total health in damage.

Weapon Required: None
Stat Required: None
Level Required: replaces Plasma Armour
Improves With: None
Warm Up: 0
Cool Down: 0

▼Cyber Arts▼

Passively increases the Primary hit rate and resistance to poison.

Level 1: 1% increase to Primary hit rate and 10% resistance to poison
Level 1: 2% increase to Primary hit rate and 15% resistance to poison
Level 1: 3% increase to Primary hit rate and 20% resistance to poison
Level 1: 4% increase to Primary hit rate and 25% resistance to poison
Level 1: 5% increase to Primary hit rate and 30% resistance to poison
Level 1: 6% increase to Primary hit rate and 35% resistance to poison
Level 1: 7% increase to Primary hit rate and 40% resistance to poison
Level 1: 8% increase to Primary hit rate and 44% resistance to poison
Level 1: 9% increase to Primary hit rate and 47% resistance to poison
Level 1: 10% increase to Primary hit rate and 50% resistance to poison.

Weapon Required: None
Stat Required: 24 Technology (+2 per skill level) (MAX 42 Technology)
Level Required: replaces Shadow Arts
Improves With: None
Warm Up: 0
Cool Down: 0

▼Blue Ruin▼

Assail an enemy with 2 devastating strikes with the held Primary weapon. User is charged with blue plasma.

Energy Required:

Level 1: 14
Level 2: 16
Level 3: 18
Level 4: 20
Level 5: 22
Level 6: 24
Level 7: 26
Level 8: 28
Level 9: 30
Level 10: 32

Damage Progressions:

Level 1: 23% more damage
Level 2: 26% more damage
Level 3: 29% more damage
Level 4: 32% more damage
Level 5: 35% more damage
Level 6: 38% more damage
Level 7: 41% more damage
Level 8: 44% more damage
Level 9: 47% more damage
Level 10: 50% more damage

Weapon Required: Wrist blades or Sword
Stat Required: 26 Support (+1 per skill level)
Level Required: replaces Cheap Shot
Improves With: Strength
Warm Up: 0
Cool Down: 2

Energy Shield

Increases energy resistance for you or an ally during combat.


Energy Required:

Level 1: 14
Level 2: 16
Level 3: 18
Level 4: 20
Level 5: 22
Level 6: 24
Level 7: 26
Level 8: 28
Level 9: 30
Level 10: 32

Weapon Required: None
Stat Required: None
Level Required: replaces Malfunction
Improves With: Support (+1 Resistance per 4 Support)
Warm Up: 0
Cool Down: 2

Static Charge conflict: This skill is vindictive to Cyber Hunters who do not apply Strength. A suggestion to edit this skill could be to scale energy regeneration to only the Primary's damage, without Strength. This may benefit all users aside from simply Strength users. Percentage nerfs may be necessary if the energy output is unconventional.

Questions? I will try to answer them. Comments? Feedback is appreciated.


< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 2/29/2012 16:49:55 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 677
2/29/2012 16:37:54   
huuduy1
Member
 

121 DEX get blocked by 59 DEX ( 2 times :( ) <- Cyber build
And TECH under 50 Will get 100% deflect in match ( atleast 1 ) <- Blood mage build
P/s : LUCK OR SKILL. Please make support back to deflect chance <- because but not much ) then we can play more balance :((
Epic  Post #: 678
2/29/2012 16:38:15   
goldslayer1
Member

@super
quote:

gold... i think u dont get my main idea... its the "subclass" feature... but i think that should be a suggestion not a balance discussion.
and that reflect damage system coould be for another class too, not only CH.
New classes? NO, subclasses and that "specialization system" ;)


well i always felt that being able to customize ur class (as in choosing skills)
would be a better system.

the way it would work so people dont choose completely OP builds is limited the choosing of skills by categories.

for example
Passives: 5 points
Hybrid armor
Bloodlust
Reroute
Plasma Armor
mineral armor

Sub-Passives: 4 points
Deadly Aim
shadow arts
static charge
bloodshield


Energy Drainer: 2 points
EMP
Atom Smasher
Assimilation (not sure if this should be an EP drainer or passive, but i think its best classified as an EP drainer that doesn't cost energy)

Attacks: worth 1 points
Double strike
Bludgeon
cheapshot

stuns: Worth 2 points
plasma grenade
stun grenade
maul
overload

multies: worth 3 points

Heavy attacks: worth 2 points

Specials: worth 4 points

Debuffs: worth 3 points

Buffs: worth 2 points
( i know im not listing everything, this is just a general idea on how it would look)

this would go into all categories and types of attacks. heavy attacks would be berserker type of attacks.

so u may noticed that each category costs a certain amount of points.
what this is, its a simple method of limitating abuse.

for exampe passives, and sub passives cost the most aswell as specials.
the point system would make it so that u have to loose power on 1 side if u want power on another.
for example 2 passives and a sub passive would be a total of 14 points. doing this would allow u less access to more skills. (and u can have less than 12) so u have a certain limit of points, and u cant go above that. this would help so that those who choose more passives, have less skills to choose from, like attacks, debuffs, stuns, multies.
so the more the skill is worth, the more points u spend.

u can expect that no combination would be have a bigger advantage than others.

this was another one of my ideas i have suggested in the past (may actually decide on working on a full detailed guide on it on pretty much everything. and of course the point system i used here is just an example. if i worked a fully detailed guide on the suggestion i will balance the point system out better)

this would also allow complete customization. and aswell as being able to choose ur own play style.
if i get atleast 5 people tell me that this sounds good, ill make the fully detailed guide on a whole new thread.
AQW Epic  Post #: 679
2/29/2012 16:40:11   
Ranloth
Banned


@Turkish
Cool story bro.
First, it's a multi still, hits both enemies. Second, it's different type which saves you slots. Third, it's unblockable; major difference from strike which you can block. Fourth, where's the problem? Fifth, you suggest buff to it? And that'd benefit who, Dex builds (or whatever it uses to boost for other classes)? How about those with much lower Str, who get less dmg per strike but more on Aux or Gun (DA)?
AQ Epic  Post #: 680
2/29/2012 16:52:39   
Stabilis
Member

I support Supermassivo's and Gold's suggestion to design your own class.
AQ Epic  Post #: 681
3/1/2012 2:00:31   
Ashari
Inconceivable!


Just wanted to post some information about the balance changes for this week that I posted in the Design Notes thread:
quote:

Tech Mage isn't being changed any more this week. Tactical Mercenaries and Cyber Hunters are the main culprits for imbalance at high levels so they're the focus. All the changes haven't been decided on or tested yet so I can't tell you everything that will happen yet, but I will say that Tactical Mercenaries will be losing Smoke Screen for Field Commander.

Mercenaries are also on the list to receive a new passive to replace Blood Shield, but that change won't make it in this week. There's not enough time for the team to art, animate, code and test a brand new skill unfortunately.

The new passive planned for Mercenaries will increase the amount of rage they gain each turn. It fits in with the beat-em-up play style of Mercenaries and gives the class a unique advantage in rage control between this passive and Surgical Strike. Without any extra health regen skills, Mercenary isn't a class that can spare the HP for Blood Shield so it saw very little use.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 682
3/1/2012 2:15:07   
Zeoth
Member

Thanks for the update Ashari! Removing smoke screen seems a little bit over the top but we shall see. May I ask what's being done to Cyber Hunters?
Post #: 683
3/1/2012 2:24:49   
Ranloth
Banned


Smoke isn't over the top, Zeoth, bot being offencive in any way.
All classes, including BM, have just 2 types of skills: Energy/HP regen, debuff or passive Armor. Merc has Armor + debuff (intimidate), TMs have Reroute and Malf, BMs have Intimidate and BL, and BHs have Smoke and BL. It works out for TLMs, they have Reroute and Mineral Armor and not all builds used Smoke too, mainly Multi didn't. I do unfortunatelly so I might need a change of builds due to that but who said as STR TLM (semi-Str) I can't try Poison or SS which I wanted to? ;)
I hope CH is not losing Malf. Problem isn't with having Malf for them but Plasma Armor instead. Even if Malf was gone, Dex builds usually have it at Lvl 1 and can take away up to -30 Tech already and they go for Multi which will do like 7 dmg less after the change but still. If Plasma is to stay too, then Malf should be gone and Static slightly nerfed again (lower regen as it favours Str builds) and put into 3 turn cooldown as well.

I hope I explained it well, if you have any questions, feel free to ask me here or PM. :)
AQ Epic  Post #: 684
3/1/2012 2:32:12   
Zeoth
Member

You did and I perfectly understand ^^ I just wasn't really thinking xD. To me CH doesn't need a nerf. Just get rid of plasma armor >_>
Post #: 685
3/1/2012 2:37:07   
Ranloth
Banned


Hehe, no problem. ^_^ And yeah, it's either Plasma or take out Malf + weaken Static further + give 3 turn cooldown which should be equal over the time. If they didn't decide to take Mineral out then I guess Plasma won't go either but we'll see tomorrow exactly. :3

PS. Taking out Plasma will be a nerf! xDD
AQ Epic  Post #: 686
3/1/2012 2:46:16   
Zeoth
Member

It does really feel like it to me :P Due to the fact that they received it as a buff in the first place. I would call it something else but not a nerf
Post #: 687
3/1/2012 2:49:45   
  Digital X

Beep Beep! ArchKnight AQ / ED


Ok, no smoke. Well, time to max poison, or add more on SS. Bit of a shock at first, but a few skill point arrangements should make up for the loss. And more rage per turn? :D I like the sound of that!
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 688
3/1/2012 3:45:39   
drinde
Member

@Depressed Void

A few suggestions to your post:

Plasma Aura: How about instead of ignoring 50% poison, make it a 30-40% chance to ignore poison altogether each turn it DoTs?

Since ignoring 50% each turn seems OP... :P

I'd put Plasma Aura in, Plasma Armor out, Cheapshot out, Technician in.
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 689
3/1/2012 4:07:41   
Goony
Constructive!


The change to Tactical will be interesting, rage building debuff exchanged with field commander being a non rage buff. Str builds may still prosper with dex becoming more important due to removal of smoke, but field commander improves with support and so does the multi... This may swing the builds towards focus or support, but frenzy and atom smash will work better with field commander. Tacticals will still have a good range of build options whilst removing one of the skills that contributed to them being such a powerful class since Delta evolution. There will be some sreaming, but it is a good step in the right direction.

I hope the merc rage passive can go over the max like shadow arts. My main gripe with this type of passive is that so much of rage gained isn't generated by the player, but the other players defence/resistance. Also, because mercs have a passive armor, many classes can easily get to rage on the 4th turn and render surgical strike useless as it stands now. I am a little concerned that this will just be another bloodshield and something not really worth investing points into. I can't really comment on what they are going to do to improve balance and who am I to argue...

I'll wait and see I guess, bit of a gamble thou IMO.

< Message edited by Goony -- 3/1/2012 5:21:21 >
Epic  Post #: 690
3/1/2012 4:19:24   
Ranloth
Banned


Best thing about the change is fact there will be bigger variety of builds. Surely Support builds might go up but that's better than Str abuse.
I see it as positive change, I'm going for Str-Poison build now at Lvl 29 which hopefully will work out. I can Heal too, mainly Field which is fine and with Frenzy too but I need a Maul first. :P

I also got told passive Armors, mainly Mineral Armor, isn't helpful at all. More like useless and that Smoke is better to keep.. Didn't know like +12 Def (=~50 Dex) is better than Smoke which can be debuffed by Assault Bot or countered with a skill..
AQ Epic  Post #: 691
3/1/2012 6:28:38   
BlueKatz
Member

Umm I hope the Rage Passive will be more than "Get to rank 6 because you won't get extra rage at lower or higher rank"
I still hope they buff the Rage itself instead >.>

And Idk why don't they just remove Armor skills from CH and TLM already and get some other Armor buffing skills instead
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 692
3/1/2012 7:00:11   
Sageofpeace
Member

TIME TO CHANGE CLASS THAT WHAT TIME IS IT

NOBODY USES FIELD COMMANDER
Post #: 693
3/1/2012 7:04:10   
Darkwing
Member

Mercenary has field commander ...since they made this game? Did they ever complain?
Post #: 694
3/1/2012 7:16:35   
Sageofpeace
Member

^hmmm

i remembered how we had a hybird armor that wasn't useless and how our multi ignore defense and we didn't have the most useless skill on the game BLOODSHILED


ALSO HAVE YOU NOTICE THAT IF WE GET GET FIELD COMMANDER WE ARE TWO SKILL AWAYS FROM ACTUALLY BEEN MERCENARY
Post #: 695
3/1/2012 7:19:28   
Stabilis
Member

Tlm will be a slightly better supporter in 2v2 instead of a bully. Hurray!
AQ Epic  Post #: 696
3/1/2012 7:19:55   
Ranloth
Banned


@Sage
Where's the problem with that? It's called Tactical MERCENARY? <.>
Who said difference between classes must be big or that they cannot have too many original skills? Suck it up, it isn't out yet, and you're already making points about how bad it is without even trying to make different build. BloodShield useless? Mercs are getting it changed to better, suck it up again if you're TLM as that'll be 3 skills away from Merc. Happy?
Change the class? Of course if you see build as effortlessly spamming one stat then go for next OP one, wait for it to be balanced and moan again. Love your way of thinking.
AQ Epic  Post #: 697
3/1/2012 7:28:18   
Sageofpeace
Member

^ i hope your not counting Hirbird and mineral as different

im not going to say more stuff clearly you spend more time in the forum them playing the game

just wait for the huge and overwhelming amount of complaint after THAT update go live!!!!!!!
Post #: 698
3/1/2012 7:35:38   
Ranloth
Banned


Cool story bro. Sorry but I can't play the game 24/7, it bores me after a while and I play 3 other games + learning. So Lvl 33, 29, 28 and 27 (4 chars) isn't enough? All different classes? Yet what do you offer, back up your points using Lvl 5 char?
Yeah I will wait, CHs are getting changed too. You're complaining already, we have enough of trolls on Forum. Sorry but use your brain to make different build, not only one revolves around Smoke. Examples were given, you've shown poor reading skills to actually read it and think. Abuse and OP ftw I guess?
AQ Epic  Post #: 699
3/1/2012 7:42:38   
Sageofpeace
Member

you are funny

for the record CH need a nerf they are just a wall of massive block, they are not that good as a class they just have this 80% chance to block which is annoying the crap out everybody else

yes i don't have the time to play the game 24/7 just like you so that make two of us
Post #: 700
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