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RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread

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3/25/2012 1:03:52   
Mr. Black OP
Member

^
You could also remove agility, because of agility people won't go past 95 and end up abusing stats because of it.
Epic  Post #: 151
3/25/2012 1:07:19   
drinde
Member

^

STR Builds focus on high HP and STR. Removing agility would help them.
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 152
3/25/2012 1:07:41   
BlueKatz
Member

Greattt with Caster nerf...again, and STR nerf soon with all those thoughtless Dimnishing (which I believe they won't put dimnishing on Block, Crit, deflect so those effect will be easier to abuse) I question myself how would I TM, not so active players and non Varium players can kill a Varium players? Look at the fact that if they went for that Dimnishing, the effect of imbalanced classes will be even greater than before and the game will revolt around classes balance, Varium and luck (first turn, block, crit, deflect) and Bot...

This is one of the least interesting balance change I ever hear, it seems that they come up with this idea to patch a wound, not to balance the game
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 153
3/25/2012 1:08:31   
drinde
Member

What caster nerf? :O
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 154
3/25/2012 1:11:30   
Mr. Black OP
Member

quote:


STR Builds focus on high HP and STR. Removing agility would help them.

It would, but then more creative builds will come out. Possibly one that could easily counter it?
Epic  Post #: 155
3/25/2012 1:11:30   
BlueKatz
Member

quote:

[14:12:41] <Practel> Like Ashari said, dimnishing on stats is going to come
[14:15:01] <Practel> Believe me, we all saw the Caster build in a video
[14:15:07] <Practel> We don't like the unfairness it gives


I'm not sure if it aim at TM Plasma bolt build or BM Fireball build, but anyways I just got some fun with my Bolt build and I would felt annoyed if they nerf it. Is it better than my old build? Umm no, but I like using a skill that no one use for like 3 years
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 156
3/25/2012 1:19:59   
drinde
Member

^

RainBolt builds ain't exactly rare, ya kno?

BTW, how would a 1 turn warm up destroy that build?
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 157
3/25/2012 1:52:45   
Arevero
Member

I think Mage Caster build would be fine IF they make a new Energy requirement. Nowadays Caster builds have up to 100-120EP and even if others EMP, ATOM, ASSIMILATE them, they will still have enough EP to use their Bolt/Rain. This is my suggestion, feel free to decline it or enhance it with your own ideas. And about Energy requirement; it could be based on damage deduction when over:

100-105EP-2 damage reduction
110-115EP-4 damage reduction
120EP -6 damage reduction
120+EP -8 damage reduction

I don't know if this should apply only to Caster (mightn't work, may nee a lot of coding etc) or every build/class (could ruin some builds besides Caster)

For now Caster build is like a one-way out of low lvl, non-var mages, but then again on higher levels it provides a bit of OPness in them.

AQ DF MQ  Post #: 158
3/25/2012 1:58:55   
endtime
Member

Really hope it wasnt my video (although it being the only video on current caster mages, I have a feeling). Let me say my share: caster mages are fun, but they are by no means OP. Chs, tlms, bhs, and mercs who emp or atom EARLY can easily beat the build, especially if the player isnt using betas. Although the caster can still use spells after the initial energy drain, if you continue then they wont have enough energy to finish the opponent (because after casters run out of energy they can only hit 3 dmg, kind of like the armor hazard). Moreover strength BHs and BMs with good resistance and HP wont have much difficulty. The reason I still use the build despite it NOT BEING OP is because i hate bad luck and spells cant get blocked or deflected. Once again let me emphasize that the build is not even close to being op, but is merely enjoyable to use. Even with the beta weapons it would be difficult to keep a rate in the mid 90s due to the build's core flaws.

What needs to be taken a second look are CHs and their excessive tank and dex builds. Ill show vid where i got 100+ wins and nearly 100%, with a dex ch. Recently Pablonator/.Torin. was able to get 100% with a high number of wins as well on a tank CH. These builds are not only overpowered, but they are often extremely slow for any build to face and decrease the fun of the opponent who may not realize that only people obsessed with 100% win rates use the build.

< Message edited by endtime -- 3/25/2012 2:17:32 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 159
3/25/2012 1:59:16   
RageSoul
Member

Bounty Hunter seems to need a (sorta) slight buff . Shadow Arts sees pretty useless for most builds because of the fact that it heavily relies on luck , so i thought instead of SA , there should be a passive that increases DEX based on your base DEX ( the one where you put your stat points to ) , and i call it "Blood of Shadows" . How does this work ? Here are examples :

EXAMPLE # 1 -
Total DEX = 82
Stat Bonus = +17
Base DEX = 65

BoS Level 1 = 10 % of Base DEX

Math = Base DEX x Conversion = Bonus DEX ----- 65 x 10% = 6.5 = 7 Bonus DEX

Overall DEX = 65 + 17 ( + 7 ) = 89 DEXTERITY = 26 - 32 DEFENSE

Q : Will this make STR more( seemingly )OP ?
A : No , because they need to spam points on DEX ( as in their base DEX ) to make it better . So if they have a base DEX of below 50s , then expect it to be not so great . Plus it requires a higher Support requirement , so no worries . And also , they won't fully benefit on this since they're left with a weaker Smoke Screen and EMP grenade , plus low TECH = low Deflection Rate , most like get their Guns and Auxilliaries deflected and low Resistance makes them vulnerable to Energy Damage .

Q : What's the purpose of it ?
A : For defensive builds to get strong and to make BH as good as the other classes in terms of defense due to them having a passive that forces them to go offensive .

Q : If i get debuffed/buffed , will the bonus be affected as well?
A : Just like Deadly Aim , it base on the base DEX itself .

Q : What about their blocks ?
A :: Look , this isn't just for them to block a lot , but also to give them more Defense and stronger DEX - Skills . Plus , you won't be facing those "OMGWTH haywired RNG blocks" problem a lot while they have low DEX .

Q: What's gonna happen to Reflex Boost ?
A: Nothing , it remains the same and it's used to negate Smoke .

Q : Why do you call this a slight buff ?
A : Well because like i said before , low DEX won't give them the chance to block more often , plus they need a higher base DEX and enough Support to make it efficient and working .

If any of you are against this or find this not enough , please give better math in it so that i will gladly think of another way to buff the BH class .

Progression : see Deadly Aim's
Stat Requirement : 26 Support ( LVL 1 ) --- 44 Support ( Max )
Type : Passive





< Message edited by Lord Aegis -- 3/25/2012 2:00:47 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 160
3/25/2012 1:59:31   
Mr. Black OP
Member

CH have SA so wouldn't it be replaced for them too?
@arvero
So an agility for energy?

< Message edited by zman 2 -- 3/25/2012 2:02:27 >
Epic  Post #: 161
3/25/2012 2:02:22   
drinde
Member

Or we could make agility work on stats.

Attack Stat:

00-62: 100% HP
63-72: -10% HP
73-81: -20% HP
82-99: -35% HP
99+ : -40% HP

Dexterity:

000-086: 100% DMG
087-106: -15% DMG
107-116: -20% DMG
116 +: -35% DMG

Technology:

000-076: 100% DMG
077-093: -15% DMG
094-102: -20% DMG
103+ : -35% DMG

/cue awe/horrorstruck faces

@Below
Noted. But hey, who needs 100% HP? :P

Also, these effects WILL NOT STACK. If you have 67 STR and 82 Supp, it will simply reduce 20%, as it is the highest factor.

< Message edited by drinde -- 3/25/2012 2:07:02 >
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 162
3/25/2012 2:04:00   
Mr. Black OP
Member

^
62 is way too low, my weapons without enhancements on a 5 focus build gives me 65+
Epic  Post #: 163
3/25/2012 2:06:21   
RageSoul
Member

@zman
This is for BH only . CH can have their SA .
AQW Epic  Post #: 164
3/25/2012 2:10:36   
drinde
Member

@
Zman, this would make people think about what items they use, instead of cobbling them and using Enhancing to solve problems. ^^
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 165
3/25/2012 3:21:28   
Arevero
Member

@zman
Technically speaking yes, it's kind of an Energy 'agility', but based on what Endtime said, my suggestion is calculated as negative.

@endtime
As a Cyber what you say is true about our Dex/Tank builds. It does make the battle really boring, in fact a lot of others told me about in battle. And i also agree it takes off the entire meaning of fun in EpicDuel. But basically to nerf those builds are either taking away PA and give us our static back on 55% whilst replacing it with technician, or maybe increase our requirements for PA to support?

@Lord Aegis
Your suggestion seems fine except if Bounties has it, then Cybers should/must too. As both are hunters in terms of classes, each should get the same type of passive ability. Not arguing abotu buffing BHs, cause it was my starter class up to lvl 31, and i know its 'plight' currently. Or you could remove CHs' SA completely hence giving us another skill as we can at most only put it on 5 and that wouldn't be really effective. To most Cybers out there its probably considered as a wasted ability on us CHs. But definitely Bounties should get a buff as Mercs did.

@Drinde
Dunno about the stats 'agility' might work but maybe make the game less unique since ED is far more unique and less 'tight/annoying(in terms of PvP) compared to other games. Mods should try it out before implementing.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 166
3/25/2012 3:26:38   
RageSoul
Member

@Arv
Ch already has PA that gives them more points to other stats , but SA is luck-based and really doesn't save stats .
AQW Epic  Post #: 167
3/25/2012 3:41:34   
Arevero
Member

@Lord Aegis

Which is why i agree that Bounties should get a buff. Your 'Blood of Shadows' in my opinion is a great idea considering the take out of luck based passive, and yet only a slight buff due to it relying on your base chance.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 168
3/25/2012 3:45:26   
RageSoul
Member

@Arv
It relies on base DEX , as in you know , the one where you add points to , and beside , i don't want them to be the "next OPed class" , but thanks for agreeing for my idea .
AQW Epic  Post #: 169
3/25/2012 4:58:50   
Arevero
Member

OP classes are always are problem in ED and in a moment people would be mocking you for having a class considered OP, even though you might have got it because it fits your play style. So that controversy will probably never end(hope I'm wrong >.<) but even so the Bounty buff you suggested is just slight. And it also fixes the problem with the LUCK factor.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 170
3/25/2012 5:57:28   
comicalbike
Member

please no more nerfs just buff if you want to level the classes out

_____________________________
Epic  Post #: 171
3/25/2012 8:18:44   
Hun Kingq
Member

Neither Plasma Cannon or Plasma Rain needs requirements. For those two to be effective you have to have very high tech basically 140 (40-48) plus due to the increase in resistance of other players. For players with the new varium gear it is impossible to get tech that high with good amount of health and high energy to use one skill twice, two skills once, or have enough energy left after it gets stolen to use one skill one time at rage. They took away technician the very and only thing that improves those two skills and forced the Blood Mage into abusing tech to see any real damage.

The only ones that get very high tech or strength are the ones that carries Alpha or Beta Weapons and if you get beat by one of those players and complain but don't address the issue that those weapons get 10 enhancement slots each with no requirements then don't complain about the skills and it is your fault because you think it is alright for players to have weapons without requirements.

In a 2vs2 match I used Plasma Rain one player had high tech one player had low tech and I got for the first time, 51 critical damage on both, so if there is nothing wrong with Plasma Rain, how in the world did I get exactly 51 damage on both players with different levels of tech (resistance). There is something wrong with Plasma Rain and it needs to be fixed.

Bring in the new focus 6

Blood Mage new Multi, fire and Plasma, with 20x focus damage that way it improves with two stats as well as focus.
Epic  Post #: 172
3/25/2012 12:34:15   
Calogero
Member

quote:

Blood Mage new Multi, fire and Plasma, with 20x focus damage that way it improves with two stats as well as focus.


Seriously you must be joking or trolling
the improving with Focus x20 would allready make it 100 damage

< Message edited by andy123 -- 3/25/2012 12:39:32 >

_____________________________

Having a Signature is too mainstream
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 173
3/25/2012 13:19:57   
od
Member

quote:

Really hope it wasnt my video (although it being the only video on current caster mages, I have a feeling). Let me say my share: caster mages are fun, but they are by no means OP. Chs, tlms, bhs, and mercs who emp or atom EARLY can easily beat the build, especially if the player isnt using betas. Although the caster can still use spells after the initial energy drain, if you continue then they wont have enough energy to finish the opponent (because after casters run out of energy they can only hit 3 dmg, kind of like the armor hazard). Moreover strength BHs and BMs with good resistance and HP wont have much difficulty. The reason I still use the build despite it NOT BEING OP is because i hate bad luck and spells cant get blocked or deflected. Once again let me emphasize that the build is not even close to being op, but is merely enjoyable to use. Even with the beta weapons it would be difficult to keep a rate in the mid 90s due to the build's core flaws.


Agreed. Caster builds are not op, however their skills are! If you compare fireball with plasma cannon and bolt, fireball deals less damage. I think they need to nerf plasma bolt and cannon slightly, then caster builds will be balanced
Epic  Post #: 174
3/25/2012 13:24:45   
Ranloth
Banned


 What I meant by Casters, and Practel, was spamming Tech to REALLY high range, about 130+, max Plasma + Multi + Reroute + Lvl 3-5 Heal to Tank it out. That's what we meant by balancing out Casters, it's the ones with abusive Tech, 140 HP and 100 Energy which are deadly at Lvl 30+ where you see them a lot. I, as a Varium player, struggle almost all the time unless I get lucky.

Remorse's solution is the best: if you go 1st, you cannot use Plasma Bolt/Fireball straight away which is big advantage. If you go 2nd, then you can use them. So the advantage isn't that big. And what will bring Casters down is dimnishing on stats as well, which is again, in the 100-110+ range not 60-80 or whatever as these will not be affected by it.
AQ Epic  Post #: 175
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