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Semi-linear stat relations

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3/25/2012 12:26:14   
Xendran
Member

Not going into a huge in depth post about this, because it will simply get either misunderstood or not understood by people who skim the topic, so instead i'll post this. This applies most dramatically to defence/resistance.

What ED has is a semi linear stat relation, the red line
What ED should have is a curved stat relation, the black line

0 = Useless. No damage is Negated
1 = Absolute protection. All damage is negated (with the exception of 3, which is a bypass not applied to the curve)

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/1746/examplegl.png

With the curve, you will never reach 1, the theoretical maximum you can reach is 9.999999.... ad infinitum, however the difference between 95% and 99% damage resistance is much more significant than the difference between 0% and 5%, making that 5% more valuable. This means that getting an additional 5% at that range should take more effort. If youll notice, however, the semi linear stats soar way above 1, escalating to infinity given an infinite number of stats.

For example: Your opponent deals 1000 damage.

Damage taken @95%: 50
Damage taken @99%: 10

You have cut down your damage intake from the original 95% by an entire 80%.

Damage intake @0%: 1000
Damage intake @5%: 950

Only a difference of 5%

One of the biggest problems with epicduel, is that because defence and resistance use static numbers, you can get defensive values that are way above 1. (100%)

NOTE: This is an extremely simplified version of this, as i have provided no real values, and take certain things for granted (a static amount of damage)

< Message edited by Xendran -- 3/25/2012 12:27:32 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 1
3/25/2012 12:56:56   
Cyberbeast10
Member

I am a bit confused, are you saying that ED is better off using percent based defenses and not static numbers since Static numbers completely negate damage?
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
3/25/2012 13:12:40   
od
Member

You have a point that def/res are slightly broken. However, in my opinion thats what makes this game fun! If everything was perfectly balanced, there would be no strategy in the game since every build would be even in power.

Also, players who have defenses high enough to bring damage down to 3 would bring up your rage very quickly, and be vulnerable to crits and poison. Not only that, but due to the low amount of str/sup they can't deal much dmg without spells.
Epic  Post #: 3
3/25/2012 13:16:22   
nico0las
Member

Makes sense, but as Od pointed out, the players who render your damage to 3 will raise rage very quickly. Also, the semi linear system adds... enjoyment.
In any case, I guess it makes sense, more than what we have now. Do I feel we should switch it out? Not really.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 4
3/25/2012 14:58:06   
Stabilis
Member

@Od,

quote:

If everything was perfectly balanced, there would be no strategy in the game since every build would be even in power.


Instead of saying that what was stated does not make sense, I will simply say that that is not right. If everything was perfectly balanced, a player with 100 Strength with element Physical would hit 1 damage point on another player with 100 Defense... except Defense is not an individual stat and is managed by Dexterity! AAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaghhhhh!!!

My problem with the offence/defence relationship in our PvP is that we can not cleanly equalize damage to protection because Dexterity for example also controls the damage of some skills and blocking. If you try to balance Dexterity with Strength you will always end up with Strength hitting more damage than Dexterity protecting against damage as Dexterity would be imbalanced if it did cleanly negate every point that Strength offers!

Yet another reason why something like Defense/Resistance has to be split from the basic stats!

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 3/25/2012 14:59:22 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 5
3/25/2012 16:22:31   
Nexus...
Member

quote:

NOTE: This is an extremely simplified version of this, as i have provided no real values, and take certain things for granted (a static amount of damage)


Everyone read the note before you comment. This post is here to show that one of the core battle systems in ED is somewhat broken. While all the details may not be on the table and/or may not have been explained in this post, I understand what Xendran is getting at. I think it should be fixed along with a whole bunch of other balance related systems

Removed the shot at the ED devs. ~TG

< Message edited by The Game -- 3/26/2012 14:39:40 >
Epic  Post #: 6
3/25/2012 16:38:57   
Chosen 0ne
Banned


 I'll re-read this once I get into high school and see if it makes sense...
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 7
3/25/2012 17:31:43   
Shadronica
Member

@ Xendran. I am a little confused but I think I grasp the quintessential.

If I am not mistaken what you are saying is that this game encourages damage output without due thought and care for defense and resist right? I may be looking at the end product of what you are suggesting but I would definately agree that there is imbalance between damage output and damage received.


< Message edited by Shadronica -- 3/26/2012 2:26:59 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 8
3/25/2012 19:01:38   
Xendran
Member

One thing i should point out is that when the incoming damage changes, the semi linear relation will actually change, either making your stat investment more or less useful. A curved relationship running on a percentage always provides an exact amount of gain for your stat points (within a range).
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 9
3/26/2012 7:26:22   
King FrostLich
Member

quote:

I may be looking at the end product of what you are suggesting but I would definately agree that there is imbalance between damage output and damage received.


The thing is, I noticed that if I have a huge amount of damage that will attack a person witn low defense/resistance, the system often picks the highest digit of def/res which I find annoying and most of the time. If you are the attacker, the system will always pick your lowest amount of strength damage + weapon damage against someone with their highest defense/resistance or the other way around if you know what I mean.
Epic  Post #: 10
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