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RE: =ED= New Design Notes April 25,2012 Rise Delta Knights!

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4/28/2012 11:04:28   
Oba
Member

And you seriously think it would get more balanced if BH, BM and TM get more defences? They deal massive dmg instead of having a better defence.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 226
4/28/2012 11:32:14   
Stabilis
Member

quote:

  • No Begging
    Begging for Membership, an upgrade to any of the AE games, special equipment or extra in-game currency is not permitted. Do NOT do it at all, not in PMs, not in threads. There are no contests for which an upgrade is a prize, either. In addition, with the addition of the "Fame" feature, do not create topics or make incessant posts begging for fame.


    • quote:

    As a general rule, no buffs will be granted to rare items. This is regardless of their status as Limited, Seasonal, Promotional, etc. In order to achieve a more balanced system of play, buffs cannot be guaranteed or handed out on a regular basis. This policy has been decided by the game staff and is not likely to change. However, if you feel that your case is especially strong, that is, you have numbers and evidence to support your conclusions, you are welcome to contact the game staff using this forum's PM system to discuss it more thoroughly. Keep in mind that the game staff cannot promise that your case will be followed through upon, as the game's balance will take precedence over personal requests for the sake of all of the game's vast player base.

    In regards to this discussion thread, you are still permitted to discuss buffs to rare items, but these discussions must be placed within this thread.


    If anything you should see if this armour is overpowered. I will be collecting one today.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 227
    4/28/2012 11:49:29   
    Hun Kingq
    Member

    		Oba, a level 34 merc, they also take in massive damage due to the lack of additional defense and bonus points as you have with the armor with max Hybrid armor having +11 defense/resistance. You are saying +8 defense/resistance is too much for classes without passive armors. Actually if your health is 94 or below then you as a level 34 merc with max hybrid would have +12 defense/resistance with the new armor so as everyone will see +8 defense/resistance or even add that 1 for having health 94 and less would be +9 defense/resistance and that is still less than +12 defense/resistance. So I am being greedy for 3 classes and still get attacked but is 3 points more actually being greedy or just put the three classes without passive armors on somewhat equal footing defense/defensive wise.

    I am looking forward at the Level 35 cap and +5 defense/resistance will not be good enough.

    So this is what other players will call for nerf or removed the passive armors. So which would you rather see a nerf or removal of passive armors or the classes that don't have the passive armors get +8 defense/resistance on the new armor, make your choice but choose wisely.
    Epic  Post #: 228
    4/28/2012 11:52:32   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 Then I demand major buff to normal Armors if Hun thinks he's right.. +5/+5 is = +9, split Armors get +1 more so if you want +8/+8, I want +15 on my Armor.. Like hell no.

    Who cares about passive Armors? Only because BMs don't have it mean Armor needs a buff. Everyone are fine and pleased with the Armor and then you come along.. What's your point? You have stat buffers in place of passive Armor so that equals out.

    Besides Void summed it up. Don't beg as it's pointless, no buffs will be granted and this is not Balance Thread either.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 229
    4/28/2012 12:10:36   
    DestruRaGe
    Member

    		Armor is fine as it is. Its a "special" one so yea. I just dont understand why on "Buy varium" screen it says that armor is ULTRA RARE! but in game and on wiki its a Seasonal rare... So in the end what is it?

    Also I hope that Delta Gun and Aux comes soon!

    < Message edited by DestruRaGe -- 4/28/2012 12:13:14 >
    Epic  Post #: 230
    4/28/2012 12:19:58   
    Hun Kingq
    Member

    		Trans, show me where I am beging I am looking out for the three classes, if you read my post, that do not have any passive armors. It you guys that look at the combined total points in each area making that determination not I. I look at each individual area it would not be +16 defense/resistance as you try to come across but here instead of a / since you lack understanding it would be
    Defense +8
    Resistance +8

    So the classes that would get those extra points would be, let me put them in red for you, the TECH MAGE, THE BOUNTY HUNTER, AND THE BLOOD MAGE.

    Depressed Void, if I violate the rules then the mods will let me know and that is the only ones that should do so I will go and check to see if I got a warning then will edit this and let you know.

    Nope, no warning so I did not violate the rules by asking for a slight point increase for the classes without passive armors and to reward players that stay dedicated to their classes and financially support the game.

    < Message edited by Hun Kingq -- 4/28/2012 12:22:56 >
    Epic  Post #: 231
    4/28/2012 12:23:44   
    Laces
    Member

    		I love the Delta Knight looks on a Merc. Oh and because of Delta Knight, I have 40 Defense and 40 Resistance. Max Surgical Strike Build ftw!
    AQW Epic  Post #: 232
    4/28/2012 12:26:59   
    Calogero
    Member

    		So... BloodMages, Bounty Hunters and Tech Mages are the only ones that should get +8 Def/Res...

    That's favoritism... I manage fine with my BloodMage build with this armor.
    Every suggestion you have made and are yet to make are biased toward OPing the classes you prefere or those that lack something another class has.

    You want more Defenses and Resistance, then change class...
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 233
    4/28/2012 12:32:33   
    Oba
    Member

    		@Hun, And you have Deadly Aim, no? Then I demand stronger guns for TLM, Merc, CH, BH.
    AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 234
    4/28/2012 12:39:46   
    Hun Kingq
    Member

    		andy123, everyone is screaming about balance this balance that but nothing should be left off the table that is including weapons and new armor. If I was playing favoritism then I would say only Blood Mages should get that but did I no, i did not I am looking at the classes with passive armors and how much more it benefits them then it does the classes without passive armors and what can be done without nerfing or removing the passive armors as many here wants so the solution is increase defense and resistance to +8 for the classes that does not have a passive armor. It would still be less then the the combined passive/Delta armor wearing classes.
    Epic  Post #: 235
    4/28/2012 12:42:19   
    Silver Sky Magician
    Member


    		 @Hun

    On Oba's note, why not a heckload of extra HP for CH, TM, TLM and mercs because BMs have bloodlust? Or since you want BMs to be overpowered so badly, why not a heckload of extra EP for BMs, BHs and mercs because CHs have SC, and TMs and TLMs have Reroute?

    You have committed so many logical fallacies in your posts and have shown such minimal understanding of balance that no one supports you. Look, if you want to convince us with your far-fetched recommendations, provide concrete evidence. You don't have to provide it if you don't want to convince anybody, but don't bother defending yourself from unconvinced and irate forum members if you don't have basic objectivity, rationality and evidence.

    Furthermore, how on earth do armours favour those with passive defense? It's not as if those with passive defense get more from armours than others. It would only be unfairly inclined towards classes with passive defense IF the classes without passive defense have a vastly inferior passive, which is not the case.

    < Message edited by Silver Sky Magician -- 4/28/2012 12:44:19 >
    Post #: 236
    4/28/2012 12:47:41   
    DeathGuard
    Member

    		Split Defenses will just bring unbalance and will make players go for focus builds or strength builds. I battled yesterday 2 guys with Delta Knight Armor, and they got not only lucky but could tank with high defenses and still have high strength to kill me.
    Delta Knight should become one sole defense giver, it should give +10 Def or +10 Res, not split, because it gives advantages to the classes who have passive armors. They're possible to beat yes, but blame luckiness to block, deflect and crit that screws all the gameplay. That being said I just hope they made the right decision to fix this.
    AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 237
    4/28/2012 12:49:48   
    Calogero
    Member

    		so choosing to ' buff ' classes that don't have a passive over those that have is not favoritism??

    Also you do know, people have to use skillpoints to train those passives while those
    that don't have those passive defences can put those points in eather high damaging skills or energy/health regains...

    According your logic:
    Classes that don't have Passive should get higher defence/resistance armors
    Classes that don't have Passive health regain should get higher Health increase per stat
    Classes that don't have Passive energy regain should get higher Energy increase per stat
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 238
    4/28/2012 12:50:59   
    Lord Loss...
    Member

    		I only partially agree with hun. +5 defence and +5 resistance are good for classes with passive defences but not for the ones without them the armor provides no real protection. But instead of making it different for certain classes it should have been +10 reisistance or +10 defence or possibly the promo could be 2 armors one with +10 def and the other with + 10 resistance. I mean come on even non varium armors have +6 and +7.
    AQW Epic  Post #: 239
    4/28/2012 12:52:25   
    Laces
    Member

    quote:

    @Hun

    On Oba's note, why not a heckload of extra HP for CH, TM, TLM and mercs because BMs have bloodlust? Or since you want BMs to be overpowered so badly, why not a heckload of extra EP for BMs, BHs and mercs because CHs have SC, and TMs and TLMs have Reroute?

    You have committed so many logical fallacies in your posts and have shown such minimal understanding of balance that no one supports you. Look, if you want to convince us with your far-fetched recommendations, provide concrete evidence. You don't have to provide it if you don't want to convince anybody, but don't bother defending yourself from unconvinced and irate forum members if you don't have basic objectivity, rationality and evidence.

    Furthermore, how on earth do armours favour those with passive defense? It's not as if those with passive defense get more from armours than others. It would only be unfairly inclined towards classes with passive defense IF the classes without passive defense have a vastly inferior passive, which is not the case.


    Give this man a medal. I say sir, very well said. And further continuing on your point,

    @Hun, not all classes are supposed to be the same. They are all supposed to have their strengths/weaknesses. Blood Mages have very powerful strength builds (probably the best in the game), and to compensate for that, they must have decent/low defense and resistance. If you were to add +8/+8 to them, they'd be pretty much unstoppable. This is not about making the perfect class so that it is invincible. Every class has it's weaknesses and strengths. Mercenaries have a passive armor, but they have no means of energy regain or health regain. CHs have a passive armor, but that's only for resistance, which means their defense is vulnerable to Blood Mages (Firebolt and Bludgeon). TLMs have a passive armor for defense, so their resistance is vulnerable by Tech Mages and CHs.

    I think what you're trying to do is make Blood Mage the "perfect class." i.e. the whole gain energy and health back thing, adding extra boosts from armors to your defense and resistance, etc. That is not the point of this game. Nothing is perfect and nothing will ever be perfect.
    AQW Epic  Post #: 240
    4/28/2012 12:54:02   
    DeathGuard
    Member

    		@Lord Loss: Great minds think the same :P
    AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 241
    4/28/2012 12:55:11   
    Laces
    Member

    		@Death

    Don't take away the split defense, what will happen to my 5 focus build with max surgical strike and 40 defense/40 resistance
    AQW Epic  Post #: 242
    4/28/2012 12:56:52   
    Stabilis
    Member

    		How to overcome this armour:

    Retrain your points so that it does not disadvantage you.

    Do not buy it, +10 armours will follow shortly.

    Use your other armours, I'm sure most level cap players have at least 1 +9 armour.

    Suggest alternate models for the developers to craft.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 243
    4/28/2012 12:58:33   
    Lord Loss...
    Member

    		U will get a stronger resistance and defence though which will free u to use ur stat points towards technology or vice versa
    AQW Epic  Post #: 244
    4/28/2012 13:31:35   
    King FrostLich
    Member

    quote:

    andy123, I am looking out for the classes that don't have passive. The mercs when they wear the armor they will have +11 on defense and resistance. The tact merc will have +16 defense +5 resistance. The Cyber Hunter +5 defense +16 resistance so since everyone is always looking at the total points then the merc will be + 22 total points, Cyber Hunter +21, tact merc + 21 and the others without a passive armor +16 total points. So the three classes that would benefit and would not make them over powered that does not have a passive armor are the tech mage, the bounty hunter, the blood mage. If +8 defense/resistance is overpowered then +11 defense/resistance would be over the top in your eyes or +5 defense +16 resistance or +16 defense +5 resistance.

    Players will be calling for nerf after nerf to the passive armors or remove them completely but I call for little extra points on defense and resistance for the classes that don't have any passive armors.

    A lot of Bounty Hunters, tech mages, and Blood mages would appreciate those extra points and as the level cap raises those extra bonus points would be helpful.


    I'm fine with my Tesla armor that has +9 resistance only even if tactical mercenaries, cyber hunters and mercenaries have passives. If they were to do that then the devs would have to also redo all the armors but I'll support this only 20% . +1 defense/resistance armors are so useless nowadays for low levels.

    < Message edited by King FrostLich -- 4/28/2012 13:44:45 >
    Epic  Post #: 245
    4/28/2012 14:17:01   
    Hun Kingq
    Member

    		Silver Sky Magician, you are so off topic you are about to flip, I am talking about the new armor and improving defense and resistance does not improve any stat or skill does it, people try to accuse me of breaking the rules but what I see is plain out flaming by the same people over and over again trying to get me not to post. So what is +5 +6 +1, that is +12 additional points for defense and resistance that is on the merc side, then for the Cyber hunter side that is +5 +1 defense +6, +11 +5 +1 resistance +17, tact merc +11 +5 +1 defense +17, resistance +5 +1 = +6. so tell me that all these increased defense and resistance points don’t make the delta armor more of a benefit and favors the ones without passive armors, those are energy free points.

    andy123, that is a players choice how they want to setup their builds but what I seen so far every player had max on the passive armors.

    As I am looking at character pages I see many with characters that have the passive armors and always want things fair and balanced but when it comes to a slight point increase to an Ultra Rare armor owe we can’t have that it would give those three classes an unfair advantage, would make them unstoppable but having passives with this armor is fair and does not make them unstoppable.

    Tech Mages, Bounty Hunters, and Blood Mages that get this armor should be more for the point increase then anyone else. I don’t care for much of either the Hunter classes but when something comes out that gives a greater advantage to three out of six then adjustments have to be made.

    Laces, how is the increase in points making the classes the same, Looking at your character page a level 33 merc probably have max hybrid armor so you have +12 defense/resistance but do not want classes without a passive to have +8 basically total +9 defense/resistance. Make tis choice if you had to choose, nerf or get rid of all passive armors or increase the points of the Delta Armor on the classes without passive armors, which do you choose. No player is unstoppable it is that hunters are willing to use EMP but refuse to use it on the strength Blood Mages and since your support is higher then guess what you would be more likely to get critical damage then they do so that tiny little increase would not make a bit of difference if you go critical damage.

    What I am trying to do with the new armor is give the three classes that don’t have passive a better and fair advantage against the classes that have passive armors but you players that have the passives don’t want to see that then it make your wins a lot harder so how dare we take away the easy wins and I do dare.
    Epic  Post #: 246
    4/28/2012 14:38:17   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 Hun, you're off-topic as well. Don't point it out to others as you're being a hypocrite. Balance Discussion is not this thread, got it?

    For God's sake, someone use Font Size 7 to give Hun chance to read rules? NO BUFFS WILL BE DUE TO ITEMS, RARE OR NOT. THIS IS A POLICY. UNDERSTOOD?
    Stop spamming the thread, you've been told about it once (with buffs) and besides, lots of people make fair points about your suggestions. If you want BHs, TMs and BMs to get more defence and I, ALONG WITH REST OF COMMUNITY, don't then surely we have reasons? Someone's being greedy for power, but it will be denied soon because Hun wants "balance" to all classes, all meaning BMs on the top, nay? ;)

    If you don't like the Armor, DO NOT USE IT! Simple as. Don't rub it in our faces how apparently crap it is because some players like it and fact it's split gives more variety to Armors, it may favour some builds and classes - Mercs, Focus 5, non-passive Armor classes, but you need right build. Take your Balance posts somewhere else, this is DNs to discuss the release not bring up Balance issues. There's other thread for that.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 247
    4/28/2012 14:48:40   
    Stabilis
    Member

    		Hun, simple statement:

    The passives of your class are not defensive enough in your opinion then? So you should be suggesting that Blood Mages get an armour passive in the balance discussion. Bloodlust + Mineral Armor.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 248
    4/28/2012 15:26:06   
    Hun Kingq
    Member

    		Trans, you and others steered away from the topic of the armor and bringing balance into the mix as well as attacking me for trying to make the Armor better not just one class but for three classes but you don't want that or want to see that so you and the others just want to attack me over and over again trying to chase me from the forums but it will not work. Did not Beta weapons get a buff, yes they did, and still today they still have no requirements because I seen a level 31 player with nothing but beta gear with more stats then I do and have high health and energy so if that was policy then they violated their own policy by giving Beta/Alpha weapons 10 enhancement slots, no requirements and an increase in damage. The founder Armor got 10 enhancement slots when it was created before enhancement slots came out. I never stated it was a crappie armor and matter of fact I have been using it, just look at my character page. I just made a suggestions to improve it for the players that plays the classes without passive armors. I have put the suggestion out there and it is up to Titan if it will happen and if it does then that would mean the armor was not up to par with the armor/passive combo.

    I made a simple suggestion that will not just benefit the Blood Mage class but the Tech mage and the Bounty Hunter class so that is not just one but three classes without a passive armor I am looking out for. A reward for those who stay loyal to their classes.

    Depressed Void, let me check if the Blood Mage, Tech Mage, or Bounty hunter have any defense or resistant passives.

    Looking
    Looking
    Looking

    Nope did not find any unless you know of a hidden passive that these classes have that no one knows about. Does not matter to me if the Blood Mage don't get a passive but when things come out they need to be tweaked so that all classes have an equal advantage at victory. The amount of defense or resistance that a tech mage, bounty hunter, or Blood Mage fails in comparison to what the Merc, tact merc, or the cyber Hunter can get with either defense or resistance or both defense and resistance something a blind person can see.

    Just like always the haves don't want the have not-s to have any kind of improvements and simple point increase to the ones without a passive armor players with characters with passive armors or their alternates go in an uproar because I suggested it but if it was one of them, players will be saying alright good to go great idea. Either you want a fair fight or you don't, you can't say you do when you don't.
    Epic  Post #: 249
    4/28/2012 15:37:36   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 They got the buff (Betas)? You mean restatting weapons? That's not a buff but change to every single item which isn't classified as buff to a specific item.
    Founder got 10 slots and that's a buff? Well having Armor with 0 slots and others with more wouldn't be fair.. FYI, ALL phase promos have 10 slots so that's fair there.

    So Passive Armors are the problem and non-passive Classes needs buffed versions of Armor.. Right.
    BHs have BL and Def debuffer so they can NOT have passive Armor. Same with TMs, and BMs as well because Intimidate is also a debuffer. TLM, CH and Merc have TWO as well - passive Armor, debuffer or HP/EP regen. Fact it cannot have passive Armor doesn't mean they need special treatment for one Armor.

    No one wants that buff. It'll create imbalance and make gap even bigger between players, even Varium; those who got Armor and those who don't (after it leaves). This is DNs, not Balance Thread. Take it elsewhere because it went off-topic, you even said it yourself so do a smart thing and stop making it even bigger. Take it to Balance Thread and we can discuss there but outcome will be the same.

    quote:

    Does not matter to me if the Blood Mage don't get a passive but when things come out they need to be tweaked so that all classes have an equal advantage at victory.

    Indeed. And that's a Str nerf for BMs which you want as other builds can do well for BMs. They may not if someone has strategy to stop it but that doesn't mean class is UP. Don't seek for a buff all the time for your class, we still have our views on it and you have no right to force them onto us.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 250
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