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8/25/2012 13:01:31

King Helios
Member

If a Blood Mage has 120 STR, and Fireball starts improving at 20 STR, then this is an 8 damage difference. Helpful, but not quite enough.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 151

8/25/2012 13:27:34

rayniedays56
Member

@mother1

Yeah...

Giving us back Technician would cause to be OP with EMP?!

OK. We had Technician before, smart one. And we were considered UP with it. And no one complained about EMP before PA was instigated. I have been a Cyber since the release of Delta. I was there for the 55% static charge at 80% damage, then was there for the 44% (same as 55 at 80).

Yet, we were considered UP. Why? Cause of all the Strength crazed Tactical Mercenaries. Cybers were then buffed. That was then PA was implemented. What happened then?

ALL of a sudden Cybers were OP.

OMG! Get rids of EMP and Static on Cyber! They OP!

Yet...no one thought about PA may have been the downfall.

People whined about Cybers being UP with Technician.
Now they are OP with PA.

What should Devs do then? Get rid of PA for a lesser passive, one that Drinde, Trans, and myself have agreed on. And then we should re buff static to 29%. Heck, we Cybers wanted a BUFF to static, but instead we get a nerf to it.

Watch, as soon as someone comes up with a better build for Cyber, it will (once again) be called OP.

To let you know DEVS, this is not 1, not 2 and not even 3 times that you have nerfed Cybers. Quit nerfing our original skills and just take away Plasma Armor for Christs Sake. My lord. How dead does our class have to be before you actually listen to us?!

AQW

Epic

Post #: 152

8/25/2012 13:29:50

Hun Kingq
Member

King Helios, How many times did I crit on you with my lower support? How many times with lower support have other players crit on you.

Mother1, I know and everyone knows that Plasma Cannon does not work with support it works with tech but support is the stat that drives the critical chance equation. Blood Lust 23% return at max big whoopy, 47 *.23, 11 health back. 37 * .23, 9 health back. when the opponent gets 30 damage just on regular strike you get a negative return. The thing about bunker buster I have seen it go critical twice in one match

If you look that one thing players complained more about was EMP and any high energy draining skill but those skills was not touched.

The Nerf to Plasma Cannon was another horrible nerf.

They say the Blood Mage is suppose to be a high damage class, that is why they don't have a debuff skill that increases damage, no passive armor, no energy regain, and Blood Lust but what is high damage 37 and below.

They told us the old classes will not get new skills or buffs but they went back on their word and gave the merc class two new skills multiple buffs while the other original classes got nothing.

If they are going to nerf the Blood Mage out of existence then just delete that class already.

Epic	Post #: 153

8/25/2012 13:35:22

King Helios
Member

Hun, how much Support do you have, 52? I know we haven't fought much, but you've critted on me at least twice vs my Support Build, with Plasma Cannon, which has A 25% extra chance to crit! 25% extra is the equivalent of a 175+ Support Advantage over anyone! I've crit on you maybe 2/3 times.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 154

8/25/2012 13:38:12

Ranloth
Banned

quote:

They told us the old classes will not get new skills or buffs but they went back on their word and gave the merc class two new skills multiple buffs while the other original classes got nothing.

They did not say that. They said that they will add new skills to Evolved Classes to make them more unique. For now, it's Multi and Ultimates that will get changed for Evolved Classes, and Mercs have Adrenaline because Blood Shield was completely useless. Wait. TLMs have unique skill already! That means they added unique skill to both classes!

Epic

Post #: 155

8/25/2012 13:50:36

Mother1
Member

Rayniedays56 you got me with exp since I wasn't around for all that long. I will have to take your word on some of the stuff since I wasn't around for it. However, it doesn't take from the fact that these combos were still there the only difference was that since you had other problems to worry about they weren't used as much. However with Plasma armor giving you protection people could do the other things that weren't known before without too much worry due to lack of protection.

Also weather you believe it or not, the static the was before was annoying people. Especially those who were CH tanks that abused EMP and heal loops. If it was buffed then the leal loops would be worse then before. With 44% energy gain with raw damage instead of inflicted damage you would gain enough energy for a decent level heal (3-4 level at least) Plus enough to use a decent level EMP if not a maxed level one.

While you are right about the fact the PA brought this wave of nerfs to CH it is because no one ever noticed that this could be done due to the lack of protection. So no matter how much you say that the potential for the abuse was always there.

Epic	Post #: 156

8/25/2012 13:53:31

rayniedays56
Member

Ok. I'm going to take Trans advice (O_O) and just calm down.

I'll give it a week for the balance trackers to notice CH's UP ness.

For now though, I will just keep quiet and (try) to keep my mouth shut.

Try.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 157

8/25/2012 13:59:59

Stabilis
Member

quote:

If they are going to nerf the Blood Mage out of existence then just delete that class already.

That would be among the most sufficient actions. Yes, then we can finally have class balance after introducing: Armored Hunter (Wrist Blades) - a hybrid of Mercenary and Bounty Hunter with the skills Mineral Armor and Bloodlust. Cyber Hunter may need to be changed to Stealth Mage (Staff) - a hybrid of Tech Mage and Bounty Hunter with the skills Shadow Arts and another BALANCED passive skill... possibly Deadly Aim. Tactical Mercenary or Mystic/Varium Mercenary (Clubs) (by the way "Varium Mercenary" was since Tech Mages are adept varium users) - a hybrid of Tech Mage and Mercenary with the skills Plasma Armor and Reroute.

Epic

Post #: 158

8/25/2012 14:01:23

ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!

1. Any skill that is more necessary than another skill is going to be balanced. Passives are getting looked at because everyone uses them. Static is used by every CH build.
2. It won't kill you to add energy to your build. How do you think Mercs manage with no way to regain energy at all? They have a Passive armor just like CHs yet Mercs can't do anything to get energy back.
3. Static is basically a reverse Assimilation. It focuses on restoring your energy though rather than stealing the energy. You should be happy that you get as much as Mages can from a skill that has half the cooldown Mages have.
4. Tanks? You have Malf. SC nerf was aimed at the tank CHs who would easily use boosters and FM to heal over 150+. One Juggernaut battle my alt was in had a lvl 35 CH who used a lvl 7 FM twice and malfed twice with about default energy.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 159

8/25/2012 14:13:06

Whirlwindstorm2
Member

The static charge nerf is obviously not popular with cyber hunters, as they only regain a meager amount of energy with any build other than a strength one. In all my time as a cyber hunter, I've always thought of this skill as a passive (I know it isnt) with its existence key to every build cybers could come up with. Static was almost always maxed and with the previous update of dropping its percentage, every cyber had it at max. However, this isn't even a passive. Why rely on putting all of your skill points into one place when new skill tree builds could be tested? This nerf is a huge blow to those cybers who love playing with either a good ratio, or with tons of wins, but now static could be seen as a important skill in strategy. However low the amount regained, what if that player's atom smasher left you two energy within healing? Or from using your deadly massacre? It could be viewed as something like assimilate with mages, but without the actual energy stealing part. Although static can be viewed as completely useless now and criticized extremely harshly, it is not necessary to max out the skill, and more creative builds can be experimented with. It is probably harder to win and compete now, if all that counted was being unstoppable in your battles, then why in the world would I be a mercenary now? The harder the class to use, the more wits it takes to win! And that, in my opinion, is probably the most enjoyable part of the game. :)

And with that being said.. I believe rayniedays' suggestion on bringing technician back would be a great idea! Replace emp grenade with a technician and maybe replace plasma armor with a physical support improving skill? That way, the synergy with malfunction won't be too great, but as cybers have no real good attack that improves with anything other than strength, this could be an alternative to something else other than those mainstream strength and tank builds we see everyday. And it could be a big step towards encouraging players to use support once more and not always have to rely on strength.

EDIT- Ninja'd by ND mallet on the assimilate thing..

< Message edited by Whirlwindstorm2 -- 8/25/2012 14:16:14 >

Post #: 160

8/25/2012 14:13:58

rayniedays56
Member

@ ND MAllet.

You said...any skill that is more necessary than any other skill will get nerfed, correct?

OK.

Isn't reroute necessary to both TM and TLM?

I know mages need to take a beating to get nice EP, but...what about TLM's? They have Default EP JUST like Cybers used to...

AQW

Epic

Post #: 161

8/25/2012 14:18:19

ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!

quote:

1. Any skill that is more necessary than another skill is going to be balanced. Passives are getting looked at because everyone uses them. Static is used by every CH build.

Already covered that part.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 162

8/25/2012 14:19:44

rayniedays56
Member

Ok. Thanks Mallet. Forgot about that part. thanks :D

AQW

Epic

Post #: 163

8/25/2012 14:31:37

Mother1
Member

Hopefully with all the nerfs the classes are facing the bosses also receive these nerfs. If not then it will a lot harder for even the higher level players to beat them.

But on the note of the reroute thing it will be really hard the nerf it withou hurting a class. While TLM and TM both have it, Like Rainieday56 said Mages have to take a beating to get this health back, and unlike TLM mages can't tank up without leaving something else exposed unlike TLM who have their passive armor. But as I said with the wave of nerfs that are coming I can see reroute being nerfed really soon even though unlike with Pre static Mages did have to invest some points into the energy to make it decent.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 8/25/2012 14:36:29 >

Epic	Post #: 164

8/25/2012 14:34:03

ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!

@mother They didn't make NPCs for easy wins. So obviously a boss NPC is going to require a lot of strategy and skill to beat. If you are able to beat the boss NPCs without a specialized build for NPC slaying then something needs buffed for them or something needs nerfed on us.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 165

8/25/2012 14:40:26

Mother1
Member

ND Mallet guy most people used the plan of saving there energy for healing and malf or smoke (if they are one of these classes) to deal with the bosses specially with 2 vs 1 bosses. With the nerf to CH they will have a much harder time fighting these bosses since they gain do little energy back. Plus you can only have 2 boosters with you at the time. I am not saying that they should be easy kills no sure, I am just saying that some bosses are hard enough as it is and with the nerfs they will be harder or almost impossible to defeat without the 'luck' factor.

But on the special build for them, I always had my builds for them, heck I remember during the war I used my str BM build with lvl 4 focus with a CH partner to beat Admin 11. I did like I would normally do which is saved my energy for healing, use boosters when I couldn't heal and use my power to deal damage while using the blood lust to gain health back. With Cyber hunter as much as it pains me to say I would rely on static to gain energy for heal loops (Only time this is acceptable ND mallet otherwise no go) as well as malfunctions unless the boss was strong against energy in which I would only use energy for healing. Also with my CH builds I would always invest at least 10 points worth of energy (which is the equal of 20 points) which is more then most CH use unless they are using max masscare or high masscare build.

Lastly I can agree that bosses need to be challenging, however we don't want to be nerfed to the point where it is almost impossible to beat them without luck (Which most hate relying on)

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 8/25/2012 14:47:51 >

Epic	Post #: 166

8/25/2012 14:50:35

Mr. Black OP
Member

^
I invested 13 points of energy (73 total energy) before the nerf.

This is what I don't get:
Static was nerfed because of EMP looping, so instead of removing or nerfing EMP they nerf static.
Plasma Cannon was nerfed due to its synergy with BL, so BL was the problem here since if a BM didn't use BL then plasma cannon would be fine, so they nerf plasma cannon instead.

I'm losing all hope in this game, good thing OS is opening soon.

< Message edited by Mr. Black OP -- 8/25/2012 14:53:30 >

Epic	Post #: 167

8/25/2012 14:52:04

Sympleton
Member

lol. Bosses are a joke right now. They need a serious buff. I'm pretty sure i beat every one of them with the same build, on my first or second try. and that was at lvl 32-33. now it would be even easier. If because of this nerf you cannot defeat one of the bosses, you most likely wouldn't have been able to do it before.

Edit: ^Actually I believe the main problem was with heal looping. EMP was a smaller issue, so they figured they might as well kill two birds with one stone. Also, probably the reason plasma cannon was nerfed instead of bloodlust was because if they nerfed bloodlust, they would have to do the same for bounty hunters. Bounty hunters do not need a nerf right now as far as I know.

< Message edited by Sympleton -- 8/25/2012 14:56:12 >

Epic	Post #: 168

8/25/2012 14:54:49

ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!

@Black OP Nerfing BL would nerf more than just BMs. Static was abused to use every skill, not just EMP. Removing EMP would not have stopped CHs from using SC to gain back a huge amount of energy often. Reroute requires you to take damage for energy, SC requires you to hit the enemy for energy. Obviously SC should not be getting back as much energy as Reroute because health is more valuable. For a Mage to gain the energy that CHs could get from a good Static would cost the mage around 50 health.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 169

8/25/2012 15:01:27

Mother1
Member

Sympleton I never had any problems beating any of the bosses as I am now. Heck I remember when I first fought armor hazard and edger I was a level 31 tech mage partnered with a bounty hunter for edger and a tech merc for armor hazard. However back then tech merc still had smoke. I also remember it took me a few times to beat Admin 11 back then as well, and I had to switch to CH since TM while is a good class didn't have the passive armor or blood lust to beat him.

But now I can agree with you that with the new equipment that keep coming out, and the new level up as well as buffs classes have been getting while the bosses remained the same since early delta they are a joke.

Epic	Post #: 170

8/25/2012 15:02:30

rayniedays56
Member

Thank goodness OS is almost here. I have nearly lost all faith with ED. Worst money spent ever :/

AQW

Epic

Post #: 171

8/25/2012 15:04:37

Sympleton
Member

what is OS?

Epic	Post #: 172

8/25/2012 15:07:26

Whirlwindstorm2
Member

^ Oversoul.. at least I think thats what they mean?

Post #: 173

8/25/2012 15:09:56

Hun Kingq
Member

Trans, They did say they will not give new skills to the old classes and Blood shield was a very good skill it does lower energy damage very effectively.

"Plasma Cannon was nerfed due to its synergy with BL"

If that is the case then they need to nerf Bludgeon, they need to nerf anything that does more than 35 damage for the Blood mage. Let's not stop there.
Nerf Blood Lust and reduce max from 23% down to 10%.

If a player has super high support, nerf that too so they get 0% of Critical damage.

Yes, Nerf reroute too so you will only get 15% back at max.

Berzerker is too over powered with the strength boost that needs to be nerfed.

Massacre is too over powered because you can't block it that needs to be nerfed.

Atom Smasher and EMP takes away too much energy, at max it should only take away 1 point, that needs to be nerfed.

Anything that does over 35 damage needs to be nerfed so that means double strike has to be next.

The staff will never tell us why the Plasma Cannon was nerfed and if they did it would be some lame excuse.

Maybe all Blood mages should become tech mages and forget the Blood Mage class ever existed and with these changes that is what will happen.

< Message edited by Hun Kingq -- 8/25/2012 15:15:08 >

Epic	Post #: 174

8/25/2012 15:21:06

Mother1
Member

Hun remember with reroute you have to take a beating to get energy back. While it is OP with TLM, with TM it is actually balanced since they don't have passive armor skills. For a mage to get good energy back, they need to take a high amount of Damage to get their energy back and a nerf of 15% would make it a nerfed version of reflex boost only without the extra dex. While this would help balance out TLM it would really hurt TM hence the reason they aren't nerfing reroute.

hun king Lol didn't realize you were joking with this post.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 8/25/2012 15:23:23 >

Epic	Post #: 175

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