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10/29/2012 22:22:28   
Rayman
Banned


^
See ppl, he means that mass don't need nerf and BH Need a Slight Buff.
Or you want the Old mass?
AQW Epic  Post #: 26
10/29/2012 22:58:45   
Mother1
Member

@ rayman

You mean the one that was blockable?
Epic  Post #: 27
10/29/2012 23:01:01   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


@mother He means the one where damage boost was calculated from weapon and strength levels rather than now where it's just from the weapon.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 28
10/29/2012 23:03:17   
Rayman
Banned


^
That.
AQW Epic  Post #: 29
10/29/2012 23:15:55   
sky222
Member

I want beta mass, the one where the formula was (str dmg + weapon dmg - defense/resistance)*mass multiplier
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 30
10/29/2012 23:28:13   
Rayman
Banned


quote:

Percent based skills (Double Strike, Berzerker, Massacre and Bludgeon) will work differently than they had previously. How it works right now is that they’re calculated by base damage + weapon damage - [defense/resistance]) x % bonus = your damage. After this update, it will look more like Deadly Aim, in that your damage = (base damage + (weapon damage x % bonus))- [defense/resistance]. This should be a buff for builds that do not rely entirely on strength, but players will insane amounts of strength should see a slight reduction in damage. The goal was to encourage deeper investment in skills that scale too well with only one point of investment. The percents for all of the skills affected by this change have been adjusted.

That's what happened.

And:
quote:

Maximum block chance reduced to 40% (down from 45%). Shadow Arts can increase block chance up to 50%.

Let's go again to 45% and 55% with sa.
AQW Epic  Post #: 31
10/29/2012 23:54:29   
rayniedays56
Member

If you were to add this formula:

(str dmg + weapon dmg - defense/resistance)*mass multiplier

Then massacre would need nerfed.


Here's a situation I see:


21-26+35

56-61(-)(25-30+5+1)

56-61(-)31-36)

25 damage


With a massacre level max (140%) that becomes...


60 total damage. This means 60 damage to YOU! Cause this is AFTER the defenses are taken into count.


Adding the defenses makes it 91-96 damage.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 32
10/30/2012 2:46:41   
sky222
Member

@raynie
Well with the current formula it would be...
(56-61)*1.4-(31-36)
94 minimum dmg
115 maximum dmg

AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 33
10/30/2012 3:49:05   
robo90925
Member

Here is a story on how massacre is OP

I clicked 2v2 as normal. Meet a BH. I looked at his stats. Ugh, I though, A strength build (His attack = 21-25+35). First i malfed (Im tank battle mage). He smoked. I pistol, 50dmg. He on 69 HP. he attack me, im on 72hp. I aux, he on 30 HP. He heal. I defence matrix thinking massacre gonna come (Note that Im on 72 hp with 17-23+5-1+18) defence because of smoke and defence matrix . He massacre, me on 4 HP (thats 68dmg!!! with a dmg reduced by at least 39 and max 43, equaling to a total dmg of 102 without any defence) . I heal, me on 43. HE RAGE PISTOL, 39 dmg. I pistol, 34 dmg. He on 36hp. He attack I dead.

Conclusion. Even with defence matrix. A strength abuse build is too OP with massacre.

Note: His rank was legend with 170k wins and 14k losses.

EDIT: @Legion of Souls ----> Note that comical biker has 220k wins (unknown loses). Plus even if im lying, there will be many more people easily killed by massacre. BH and CH are already becoming way too common. It is making the game much more unbalanced. For players who play other classes, it is becoming harder and harder to kill BH & CH with massacre because the game is getting stronger and better gear. Nerfing strength will be unfair on other classes, so nerfing massacre is the best chioce. Most affected class i think is mage and blood mage (though blood mage has Blood lust and intimidate) since they do not have a passive that increases resistance or defence.

@Nub Apocalyse: I am mage with full varium gear & full enhance as shown here. Defence was 7-23+5-1+18 because of the smoke. My normal defence would of been 26-32 sincei have 41+45 dex. No one is BSing. We are putting forth our legit argument to make the game abit more fair. Support mage might be powerful, but BH has energy shield which can combat against malf and most support mage has no defence what so ever. Our defence matrix has no chance of defending against a level 5 mass ( as most bountys run) which boost there already very powerful strike by 90%!!! You can not deny this is powerful. Most mages run 1-3 defence matrix which is 17-25 defence. Even if we manage to survive. We already wasted 2 turns by defence matrix and heal. Right after we heal, rage comes!!! Their strength has improved there pistol dmg (Which is usually energy), rage makes it ignore 45% defence!!!. That is raw dmg hitting us. We had no plasma armor to defend us. If we spam tech, we would easily die from BH. If we spam dex, we would easily die against CH. Either way, we will lose ALOT of HP to massacre. I can

Also Note: The ERA of support TM is over. You would usually find focus 5 TMs. Also, if u think support mage is OP, why dont we see any TM NEEDS NERF posts? I also can guarantee that not all the people who posted are noobs. Use some common sense. Why would we post this just cause we can't beat BH with massacre? If we are, why would I go to all this trouble to write something that has no effect because we are raging? Look at this post Nub Apocalypse. Why would I write all this because i am raging? If i was lying, the creators would not change massacre.

< Message edited by robo90925 -- 10/31/2012 4:54:12 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 34
10/30/2012 4:07:13   
zion
Member

Another drawback of the newer skill % damage was making intimidate much weaker. A strong intimidate used to reduce a mass to 20 damage, whereas now it just subtracts 10 damage from the astronomical numbers you see in this thread.

_____________________________

AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 35
10/30/2012 4:23:25   
arthropleura
Member

yes im charming tech mage now. anyhow, i have lvl 3 def matrix wchich adds 34 phys, all very niced. still get killed by massacre cos they just get rage faster. level 6 technician, hardly any help. lvl 3 assimilation. They ahve 90+ mana. ._.
perhaps a slight nerf? just with the rage thing
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 36
10/31/2012 0:31:36   
legion of souls
Member

@robo90925

Ok so with 170k wins i guess he plays more than comicalbiker..

if youre gonna lie at least make it believable
AQW Epic  Post #: 37
10/31/2012 4:06:52   
Nub Apocalypse
Member

Ppl, cut the bs, all the people who are claiming to be TM with DM and still getting killed by Massacre are either lying, or using a scenario where the TM is non-var and the BH is full-var. If a TM and BH of the same lvl and skill face off, and the TM gets first strike (which they usually do, due to the trend for higher support within this class), the BH has pretty much no chance to win. If the BH gets first strike, still, most of the time, they will lose. BHs can consistently defeat Mercs and TLMs, they are tied with BM and CH (depending on first strike), and can be completely countered by a TM who actually knows how to play. Oh, and then for those of you who are about to argue against me "but then that counter build won't work for other classes/builds", save it, it does. Support TM was once the most dangerous build in ED and after all the nerfing, is still a large threat. People who have been posting are just inexperienced players, considering any build they cannot beat to be OP, their narcissistic selves tell them if they tried all they could to defeat a build and still fails to do so, it's impossible, when in fact, what was wrong in the beginning was within the player's mind itself, not that there is a balance issue.
Post #: 38
10/31/2012 16:13:05   
legion of souls
Member

Im pretty experienced but most of the time im beat by massacre bh's
AQW Epic  Post #: 39
10/31/2012 16:31:17   
Rayman
Banned


quote:

Ok so with 170k wins i guess he plays more than comicalbiker

Legion u know that comical has 220k+ wins?

And robo, Don't u think it's fine to lose a battle vs a lvl 35 str bh? (35 asumming it's fay beee since u said 170k wins)
She's lvl 35 and you 31. 4 Lvls advantage.
And you'r matrix isn't even good, a good one is +22 or more.

quote:

Defence was 7-23+5-1+18

You'r def wasn't like that it was like this: 7-23+5-3+18, as lvl 31 u can't have all the def from a 34 armor.
AQW Epic  Post #: 40
10/31/2012 16:37:01   
Samurai_ED
Member

Massacre is not op at all. Bounty has had the same massacre move since beta with no complaint. There is a lot of ways to make massacres weaker.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 41
10/31/2012 16:37:54   
legion of souls
Member


@Rayman


Ok so he was fighting faybee? (175006 wins)

Im not suprised he lost
AQW Epic  Post #: 42
10/31/2012 16:56:10   
Bunshichi
Member

@ Samuria_ED it has changed look at Raymans post above.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 43
10/31/2012 18:18:35   
Rayman
Banned


Legion of souls: the player he fought doesn't matter, the point is, that he fought a 35 str bh and he was a 31 TM,and the more wins u have don't make u any better.
AQW Epic  Post #: 44
11/1/2012 1:12:22   
legion of souls
Member

@rayman

I actually contradict that. Usually with more wins comes more experience in battle. therefore, in a sense, it does make you better.

It really saddens me that players rage because they just cant beat a certain build.
AQW Epic  Post #: 45
11/1/2012 1:15:50   
laguna blade
Member

If this game get better base dmg primary wep n more mass bh at higher lvl, so y not stop lvl cap?
Epic  Post #: 46
11/1/2012 2:33:51   
Promaster
Member

If the level cap stops, it'll make playing the game a bore since leveling up is the best/fun part about any game. Just to stop raising the level cap to prevent a certain abuse of skill/stat shows players that the Devs have given up on actually helping to solve the problem. ( Which this isn't/shouldn't be the case here.)

I dont find trouble winning str BHs. Sure i may lose some, but the fact that i can do it shows everyone that they can do it too. It's just a matter of builds/luck/skills. Shields are there for a reason, and the fact that they can be leveled up to 10 makes it even better. If you think your shields arent good enough, take a few skill points off from some skills and invest into them. Prioritize defence over offense, and have some good stable energy damage as well. Take a few stat points away from str or support and add them to dex or tech. Or just invest more stats into support to get your shields stronger.

Adapt your build to counter these builds instead of just sticking to your old build and telling others how you cant beat them.
We are able to retrain at a cheap price of only 500 credits for a reason. Abuse it.


AQW Epic  Post #: 47
11/1/2012 9:20:20   
laguna blade
Member

So massacre is balance. I able to beat them almost evry battlr too
Epic  Post #: 48
11/1/2012 15:37:17   
Rayman
Banned


Legion of souls: So u r saying for example: fay, cuz she has these wins it means that she will have better experience and more skills in battle and will win easily vs others? These high wins of LBs are mostly thanks to mass builds or any str build to win fast using a simple smoke strike strike strategy the most of the time.
And what im saying is that there are alot of people that have much more experience with lets say 35k wins than the ones with 100k +
AQW Epic  Post #: 49
11/1/2012 16:19:34   
laguna blade
Member

I agree with rayman.
Epic  Post #: 50
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