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RE: Cheap Wins

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12/29/2012 14:13:11   
Mother1
Member

I have to ask how is using something with a build that is designed to for a certain purpose a cheap win? I can call it annoying yes, but these are all tactics used in battle and everyone can use them so please explain me how is doing something like that cheap?

@ Remorse

I remember you commenting to me how I like luck the way it is, so I have to ask you do you really hate the chance factor so much that you would rather have then things within control but extremely abused rather then chance based and fair?

I mean think about what if the staff made the pyro fly effect selectable anyone with this bot could purposely destroy another players build buy choosing one move. Cyber hunters before their nerf would have had problems because everyone would hit their static. Bounty hunters would always lose their masscare, In jug fights Field medic would be taken from the jugs. In other words it would be more destructive if it was like platinum pride then it being based off of chance now.

@ King

Many people have said it need to have a stag gernade effect (meaning reset after the special is used) While Rui said it needs to reset everytime it is used regradless of if it is the special being used. Me personally while I only use the bot for boss fights, (since this is were it is most effective) I don't think this bot should have been introduced into the game period. They just threw it at us without testing it, and the moment it came into the game it caused nothing but trouble.

Personally for the sake of balance I think it needs to be removed from the game and every who own the bot should get a full refund.
Epic  Post #: 26
12/29/2012 14:26:42   
Chosen 0ne
Banned


 It's sort of a noob robot. It's there to take out strategy when tanking. You can both be doing a great job in battle using health boosters and every bit of strategy you have. When you have 60 hp you can die though because of this robot. It seems a little unfair.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 27
12/29/2012 14:39:02   
Rayman
Banned


 Above: Yes, Infernal bot is totally unfair and OP :3

_____________________________
AQW Epic  Post #: 28
12/29/2012 15:05:34   
Lord 13 Akram
Member

WELL even that the people 1 or 2 yrs ago could use 2 attacks of gamma bot consecetevly which helped them score very easy wns
and get acievements like overlord guard or hank and many guyz u can see an example by checking out illuminators utube channel
on defeating armor hazard lol well i should have played alot long ago and leveled up fast :p but still its inequality to the other
players

thats MY opinion
Epic  Post #: 29
12/29/2012 17:00:34   
The Joker X
Member

I agree, it's over powered. This would happen multiple times to me in a 2v2 fight, my partner and I should have clearly won the fight since our opponents would be on his knees with five health, no energy and no more boosters, while I on the other hand would have around 65 health. I'll admit our opponents put up a great fight but we were the clear victors, up until that stupid bot is used with rage... It honestly does more damage than most berserk moves I've seen... It clearly needs to be nerfed a tad. I'd say that the four turn cooldown is not enough. Something so powerful shouldn't be allowed more than once in a game... We only have so much health to protect ourselves with. I think a power reset each time it's used would work best with this bot to make it fair, it's not like it was varium in the first place. ;)

< Message edited by The Joker X -- 12/29/2012 17:02:05 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 30
12/29/2012 17:09:19   
Stabilis
Member

It slowly climbs to the same damage as a level 10 Massacre (or Maxaccre). Minus the energy cost and, because it is Focus-based, the Support requirement matters little. Stall the battle to get a cheap attack as strong as Maxaccre. Which is why I do not use it.
AQ Epic  Post #: 31
12/29/2012 17:19:07   
Mother1
Member

@ joker x

A reset when the special is used? or a reset when the bot is used period? You didn't specify in your post.
Epic  Post #: 32
12/29/2012 17:54:47   
xxmirxx
Member
 

 lol only reason why most of you people dont like it cause it is better then gamma bot.
AQ Epic  Post #: 33
12/29/2012 18:47:45   
BadWitch
Member

I admit i was shocked first time when i ''died''in a fight having 93+5 tech by his special.I was like 0.0 what was that?...and i had 60 hp...In my opinion it should cost at least 35.000 credits.
But again is not the boot's fault,as some of you mentioned,is the abuse of stats from the enhancements.

_____________________________
Epic  Post #: 34
12/29/2012 18:56:25   
Mother1
Member

@ badwitch

Like xxmirxx has said many people are upset that the gamma bot is being outclassed by this non varium bot. But you are also right since extra stat points along with focus 5 builds have gotten a supercharge because of this bot after it was nerfed the first time.

The first time it was in the game I had to suffer a humiliating defeat when I had 90 health while my opponent only had 7 all because of the OP infernal android.
Epic  Post #: 35
12/30/2012 0:24:17   
Remorse
Member

@ Mother,

I dont dislike all luck.

I am sticking to my statement luck is alright the way it is.


However what I dont like it when luck becomes abused for effortless wins.

Any type of luck that forces an effortless win even if its the slimmest of chances is not balanced IMO.


That is why the pyro fly is unbalanced, I dont think it should be changed to pick the skill because it would be oped I agree, but being potentially able to pick the skill that is the most devastating is just another luck that enforces an effortless win.

Never should players be able to destroy another effortlessly thanks to a small luck chance in there favor.


For example the Maul stun berserk merc STR builds was extremely unbalanced because they could potentially kill some1 without them even getting a turn!


Even though this build is not popular I still think maul needs to be given a warm up for that reason.


Luck is 100% Needed I agree,

However a single Luck factor that makes it impossible to recover is completely outrageous I dont care if it only has a 1% chance it should have a 0% chance!

Its not fair for any player to lose thanks to a single terrible luck factor such as the pyro fly, and starting stun zerk combo.



It is not tactic, its completely rubish effortless hoping for an unfair luck factor to get an completely unfair win.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/30/2012 0:29:04 >
Epic  Post #: 36
12/30/2012 2:56:05   
DillBagel
Member

I will never use it over my gamma bot, no Infernal Android is cooler than Laser Barf.
AQW Epic  Post #: 37
12/30/2012 4:12:00   
RageSoul
Member

Saw a 5 Focus Tech Mage having a TECH amount equal or greater than a Caster TM player's ( due to Technician OFC ) . He used the bot against a TLM with 30 - 36 + 5 + 1 RES or something . Then he Rage + Special against him . He dealt 60 Energy Damage .

Do i find the IA's special OPed ? Not exactly , since you have to wait for a few turns to make it effective . But do i find its effect tad OPed ? Dealing almost 80+ damage is outrageously OPed alright . Not because i can't always beat them ( though there are times i can ) , but because 1) it's too simple and easy in terms of using : wait for 140% damage ( as in "do-what-ever-it-takes" waiting ) , have your TECH back to normal / get's buffed and RAGE!!!!


In short : too OPed for an effortless ( read : easy ) tactic to make it better .
AQW Epic  Post #: 38
12/30/2012 4:50:30   
Hun Kingq
Member

Lord Aegis, you pointed out the key thing 5 focus.

They stopped weapon damage increasing with focus due to weapons got to powerful and that players were not using their offensive skills just defensive skills and debuffs so now history repeats itself with the bots.

No need to nerf the bot just get rid of focus all together and force the 5 focus bot abusers to use their skills.
Epic  Post #: 39
12/30/2012 4:55:12   
RageSoul
Member

@Hun
But what'll be the substitute for Focus ? TECH ? DEX ? SUPP?
AQW Epic  Post #: 40
12/30/2012 5:26:49   
Mother1
Member

@ hun

While the staff themselves are getting rid of agility in omega, I remember rabble saying that have no plans on removing focus. Besides thanks to that nerf with focus all focus 5 builds now have that is truly devastating would be just that bots.

Personally I would love to see the bot removed from the game completely myself. Not because I can't beat it myself, (I have beaten users of this bot) But to the point were it's offensive effect as Remorse says make it way to easy to win duels. I don't know how many times I have lost to player sometimes who sometimes stood no chance of winning because of this bot. removing it from the game would also put an end to those annoying stall builds as well.

(When I say remove I don't mean make it perma rare I mean remove it completely and refund everyone's credit/varium)
Epic  Post #: 41
12/30/2012 5:57:08   
Remorse
Member

^ Or you could change the special.


Off the top of my head an alternative could be this:


ARMOUR MELTING LASER:

The special deals 90% energy damage but gains a 5% Armour ignoring effect each turn. Starting at 5% round 1


For example by round 6 the bot would have a 30% armour ignoring effect (stacks with rage also) BUT the original damage is only 90% of the bot damage.


This change would mean damage wise it cannot ever get outrageously high, BUT it does mean it can be used as an effective counter for tanks in which battles usually last long aswell.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/30/2012 6:00:08 >
Epic  Post #: 42
12/30/2012 10:12:49   
Hun Kingq
Member

Lord Aegis, nothing will replace it or the other option lower it to where the max level would be focus 2.

The bot should be the assistance not the substitute of the player fighting the battles.

Mother1, yes, Rabble did say that but if players don't want to start using the offensive skills they will either remove it or lower it forcing players to use the offensive skills. They never meant the Blood Mage to be a defensive battling class that is why they had nothing to increase Dex or defense but they need to do something to get players that plays the Blood Mage back more into offensive fighting. So either focus has to be removed or the max level have to be lower and can be added have the bots scale heavily with tech.
Epic  Post #: 43
12/30/2012 11:27:48   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

@above here we go again with bloodmages, bloodmages are aggressive but not offensive, don't you understand the difference? i can be aggressive but i don't have to have offensive or powerful attacks at the same time, aggressive is a mood/emotion but offensive is power related.

if 5 focus is removed, sure, you can have more freedom but creates certain stat abuse builds, balanced builds should be rewarded more options and equal in power with stat abusers, thats why there is 5 focus, can a balanced build win a fight against strength abusers without the benefit of 5 focus giving them a extra attack option? it is possible but the stat abusers will be more likely to win.

< Message edited by TRizZzCENTRINO -- 12/30/2012 11:28:34 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 44
12/30/2012 11:54:58   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 I would just like to point out the purpose of Five Focus builds when they first came out. 5 focus started as a tank build with lower than normal health that is why it gave the damage bonus for using it because tanks lacked in the offensive areas. Next came stronger gear with higher stat modifiers and higher level caps which made five focus builds stronger and this was followed by primary enhancements which allowed five focus to become an even stronger build by hitting that 45 mark plus their extra levels plus enhancements meant you could stat spam and five focus. That and a few other factors lead to the damage bonus being removed but you can five focus and tech spam at the same time because Focus was made for the lv 31 32 range way back when.


That is the problem with Focus. Agility sure it is going away but it has been flexible since it was released but Focus has remained pretty much exactly as it started if it was flexible like agility has been it wouldn't be so easy to stat spam a five focus build.

Actually after a lot of digging here is a five focus. It is also a max agility build which means my health had to be low
http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy40/Axl13579/1v1agility.jpg

And here is a four focus from when lv 31 was the level cap
http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy40/Axl13579/2v2build.jpg

Focus was made when or possibly before the level cap was 31 and we are now playing a game that has a level cap of 35 with gear that gives incredible amounts of stat modifiers along with enhancements. Is it any wonder that a five focus build can be abused with a robot like the Infernal Android?
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 45
12/30/2012 11:55:55   
Mother1
Member

@ hun

Why should I be forced to use a build I don't want do? This game is about creativity not being forced to use something you don't want to. May players don't like focus due to the OP infernal android it along with the nerfing of other builds made focus 5 very powerful.

I remember when I stared playing this game focus 5 wasn't even a blimp. However now it is at the top of the food chain thanks to all the nerfs due to builds that were supercharged by extra stats (enhancements.)

Focus is good for balanced builds as well as tanks builds. nerf focus and you are giving OP offensive builds a buff, it will destroy balance even more.
Epic  Post #: 46
12/30/2012 14:53:40   
Hun Kingq
Member

TRizZzCENTRINO, hiding behind shields and a bot a player can't be aggressive. You can't be aggressive when you are hiding can you? You can only be aggressive when you yourself are using attacks. What are the offensive skills? What are defensive skills? What skills are both?

Mother1, Infernal android is not OP it is the focus that give it its power tied together with high tech. Same question to you, why should everyone be forced to do 5 focus to win against the bot abusers? Is this not a PVP game or is it a RvR (BvB)? If you go into battle how can you test builds against skills if it is nothing but robots attacking?

"This game is about creativity not being forced to use something you don't want to" A lot of players do want to use the bot but rather the skills but now this game lacks creativity and forces players to use something they don't want to, the bot.

The Blame for all the nerfs are the very ones here that complained over and over again about one or another being OP so now this game have turned into nothing but who has the most damage from the bot so look in the mirror, all of you and say this, " I am the one responsible for this mess."

Balanced have been destroyed way before you started playing and it got worse with nerfs after nerfs, with the constant adjusting of equations.

Take a look at the starting stats of the Blood Mage which two are the highest and why?

Lowering focus to be 2 max and /or scaling bot improvement with tech more heavily will let players know you have to find other Alternatives to win the battle which you can still have 5 focus build if you want because for one focus only deal with bots and nothing else and two tank builds are more dex/tech heavy than any other stat so a player can have a no focus tank build, a level 1 focus tank build, Level 2 focus Tank build, Level 3 focus tank build, level 4 focus Tank build, and a Level 5 focus Tank build.

Bots are great to have in the game but the bots have been abused, a must have to win, taking creativity out of the game forcing players to go with the same build but higher tech, forcing players into bot battles not player battles.

"Either change or change will be forced upon all"

Epic  Post #: 47
12/30/2012 15:10:53   
Giras Wolfe
Member

Infernal bot should go from 80% at the beginning of the battle to 120% later on. 140% damage is ridiculous especially considering its unblockable and costs no energy or stat points. The damage increase leads to legitimate strategys but 140% is just too high.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 48
12/30/2012 15:46:37   
Mother1
Member

@ hun

Remember before the infernal android? Before that BM's were very aggressive using that OP brainless strength build. It wasn't fun if you were on the receiving end of that build, and if you wanted to compete you were forced to become one. People were complaining about the kind of BM you wanted (Since you claim BM must be aggressive) because everytime you ran into a mage it was a blood mage, and just about every blood mage you ran into what the strength spamming kind. Sorry hun but your idea for BM was all brawn an no brains for quick wins.

Also as for the nerfs yes people complained however it wasn't even that builds were OP it was all these extra enhancements that did it as well as the sky high credit prices for them. Varium players could get them easy, but non variums couldn't. Plus add in the extra stats varium items give and you got a problem right there. Now if enhancements were as cheap for non variums as it is variums the gap wouldn't be a bad and there wouldn't have been all these complaints. However, that wasn't the case and with people able to go up to the DSF limit and use enhancements to by pass it without penalty extremely OP builds came.

Non variums couldn't compete and all these stats made many builds that were perfectly balanced look OP. 35-39 extra stats is the equal of 8-9 levels worth and the level. It is like a non varium fight a juggernaut in every battle mode and in Jug mode like fighting a god.

If enhancements weren't ever added to the game and it was only weapon stats I could bet my paycheck and win that if a balance issue came up it would be actually just that and not extra stats making something look overpowered. But sadly this isn't the case Hun and as a result everyone was punished for being creative, or adapting to nerfs because once something was nerfed something that was balanced before became overpowered since the class or build that kept it in check was weakened and made ineffective.
Epic  Post #: 49
12/30/2012 20:50:18   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

@Hun
who says you have to attack to be aggressive? someone can be aggressive just by swearing, or taking something from someone aggressively, it scares that person but doesn't have to deal damage, you need to search up definitions instead of arguing with the facts.

and i agree with mother1, your definition of aggressive for blood mages are just wanting them to be purely offensive and OP, before you complained about the fireball nerf, well i can tell you that it was a necessary nerf because before the fireball nerf, all you see ingame are strength bloodmages running around, attacking people mindlessly, it is always deadly aim, fireball then berserk.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 50
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