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RE: =ED= Compensation - January 24, 2013

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2/2/2013 8:17:46   
King Helios
Member

Quick fix: Refund enhancements for 75% of their credit equivalent, because Var = lotta Creditsi in Omega.
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 326
2/2/2013 8:27:27   
Ranloth
Banned


 Or.. if Omega will have fixed Credit:Varium ratio, you could refund Credits equal to the Varium-worth of the enhancements (so 10 slots with Credits = 170K, Varium = 1.7K). So basically, put Credit enhancements into Varium value (using 10 slot example), take 30% of it* and put into Credits.

For example: (ASSUMING C:V IS EQUAL TO 75:1) I've enhanced 3 weapons with 10 slots each using Credits. This means I have spent 510K Credits. If I was to use Varium, it would cost me 5.1K Varium instead. 30% of 5.1K Varium is 1,530 Varium. Multiply by 75 (1 Varium = 75 Credits) and you get 114750 Credits.

You can still cap it at 100K or let it go up (say 250K Credits cap). Enhancing 10 slots is very rare, at least with Credits, and F2P don't have access to weapons with 10 slots so their Slots usually cap at 6-7 per weapon (50K-80K Credits) so this would allow to get back higher amount, especially with lack of Credit sellback for enhancements on the current system.

* 30% = Varium refund
AQ Epic  Post #: 327
2/2/2013 8:29:41   
King Helios
Member

You can do way more than 30%, because Varium will have civilian perks in-game (out of battle), so 40-45% is reasonable.
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 328
2/2/2013 8:29:43   
The Incredible Hulk
Banned

 

 The same old, the same old.....
Epic  Post #: 329
2/2/2013 9:34:06   
theholyfighter
Member

Anything below 50% IMO is
AQW Epic  Post #: 330
2/2/2013 11:58:48   
Rider_of_Rohan
Member

The thing is, with the case of enhancements, the opportunity cost of purchasing enhancements is EXTREMELY high. I consider 150$ spent on a single game to be a considerable amount, and you would expect to receive full access to premium features ingame or some sort of strength boost, time saver, etc. Games like Guild Wars and CoD all provide an extensive amount of content for a (usually) one time price. However,with the implementation of enhancements, I, a paying player, was almost FORCED to buy enhancements(with varium) to maintain some sort of power level while operating on a time budget. I could not afford to participate in the myriad of other "perks" that those with more time/varium could afford to indulge in, such as war cannons, brainwash, constant class jumping, exp boost, credit boost, hairstyles, etc. I was a varium player, but was not able to fully utilize varium perks due to the almost binding nature of enhancements. Sure, you can argue that nobody forced me to buy enhancements, but I do like to win once in a while, and if you remember the days of late beta and early delta, enhancements were almost REQUIRED to win consistently. What I'm trying to say is that while the nature of enhancements is extremely restrictive, it was worth it for me. While I would have liked to participate in the firing of George Lowe cannons, changed up my hairstyle, or gotten to level 33 ASAP through exp boost, I didn't, because overall, winning with enhancements was worth more to me. However, now that AE is TAKING away this advantage but NOT providing an equal sort of exchange in anyway, it feels like I have been cheated of all the perks that I COULD have participated in but did not.

I honestly do think that AE could implement some sort of system where the user is able to obtain the new cores or upgrades through an enhancement credit system. The exchange rate in this case wouldn't even have to be 100%. Even 50% would be enough, as long as we get something that benefits the user in a way that was relatively equal to the utility I received through enhancements.

EDIT: After carefully rereading Trans's post, his idea seems like another valuable option. With the increasing utility of Credits in Omega, IF the exchange rate between varium and credits were to be that high, it would seem reasonable.
However, something tells me that even if AE does implement your idea, the exchange rate will not be that high.

< Message edited by Rider_of_Rohan -- 2/2/2013 12:03:17 >
Post #: 331
2/2/2013 12:32:08   
Ranloth
Banned


 The Credit:Varium ratio was an example, but it'd prove to be more fair towards those who have enhanced with Credits. Even with C:V being 50:1, it's still more than current compensation (1,530 * 50 = 76.5K Credits refunded *if you refer to the post above and the example I've used there*). There are Varium players who have used Credits and since majority of things in Omega will have Credit option, it'd be more fair towards them. And F2P players would be happy as well. Not mentioning Credit prices will likely go up in Omega so that's another advantage of better compensation for Credits.

I was just throwing the idea around to make it fair for those who used Credits. After all, there will be price inflation in Omega so this could help every one of us; Varium players get Varium back & can use it in Omega, those who used Credits won't suffer as much due to inflation & get refunded too.
AQ Epic  Post #: 332
2/2/2013 12:34:55   
King Helios
Member

^ Basically my idea :/ anyway, I think it is good to be fair to credit enhances, because they got 0 sellback.
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 333
2/2/2013 12:39:25   
Ranloth
Banned


 And I'm sure even Varium players have used some Credits to enhance. Why? What other use is there for Credits when they stack up? Especially for hardcore players who would have a lot of Credits. :/ So it'd be a fair benefit to all of us.
AQ Epic  Post #: 334
2/2/2013 13:57:48   
DeathGuard
Member

@Trans: I could be an example here. I have used more than 600k credits enhacing most of my weapons, including the ones I have sold because they became outdated, and we're receiving a 10% compensation, at most I will get like 14k credits, when at 30%, I would recover around 40k-50k credits which I would be grateful to receive since it would be a good compensation, and it wouldn't be unfair since I spend time on it.

< Message edited by DeathGuard -- 2/2/2013 13:58:24 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 335
2/2/2013 17:42:29   
LVXYZ
Member

Honestly, I see why the refunding is so "low". If you give EVERYONE back a ton of credits and varium, then it'd break the game's economy in a sense, as players could very easily buy most if not everything they want when Omega begins. It'd make things unbalanced between them and the players who haven't enhanced weapons. I've personally enhanced 8 weapons, with half of them being enhanced with 10 slots. I'm honestly not worried about how much varium I get back, because I know I'll never have to worry about spending that much Varium just to make a decent weapon again! The long term value of weapons is sorta like a "compensation" in itself!
Post #: 336
2/2/2013 17:48:37   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 Not to mention the refund will be well on the way to setting up your gear for even farther use
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 337
2/2/2013 17:50:08   
Drianx
Member

@LVXYZ
You completely forgot about skill cores lol. Those might not be cheap, and if they start releasing stronger and stronger cores like they did with weapons, I'm sure varium will go just as fast as in Delta. There is absolutely no guarantee that weapons will be a lifetime purchase.

< Message edited by Drianx -- 2/2/2013 17:51:52 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 338
2/2/2013 17:53:59   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 Ah but weapon lifespans keep getting longer and longer.

When I started I switched weapons almost every level up until lv 28 and now with the current enhancement system weapons don't have to be replaced by the newest weapons and the omega weapon level up system will make weapon lifespans as long as you want them to be
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 339
2/2/2013 18:02:24   
Drianx
Member

@QWA
Actually my worry is that the game is moving towards a different form of pay-to-win. Many think "the compensation is enough because I will only need a set of weapons for the rest of my life". This might be horribly wrong.

They announced that once you equip 2 skill cores on a weapon, you won't be able to unequip them. Skill cores will cost some credits or varium, or might even be varium only, or promos.

Now I cannot imagine how a promo skill core could be just as weak as a credits core.

In other words, I'm pretty sure that some cores will be stronger than others. And the gap might increase over time, as they release better cores - because releasing weaker cores would be useless. What would happen with your weapons? They will become obsolete, because you cannot unequip older cores.

Remember, when they introduced enhancements, they said 'it's for a wider build variety and creativity'. Now they are saying the same. Why should I believe it this time?

< Message edited by Drianx -- 2/2/2013 18:03:14 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 340
2/2/2013 18:17:30   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 Actually they are correct Enhancements did allow for just that but as a community we picked stat spamming so now they are limiting stat spamming in this new set up and trying that motto again.

Can I have a quote for not allowing core unequips because they said they were delaying the start of the Omega tournament to allow experimentation and I heard for now that rare cores will be locked but this is the first that I heard you can't unequip them. Well even if you can't unequip them because you buy them hopefully they can be overridden by other cores if they are not locked.

Cores are going to be released over time just to provide a diversity of cores and I am sure they will be balanced in the same manor as skills, if they get too strong without a counter a counter will be made(it is a flexible system now after all) or the core will be modified

Finally Cores will be credits or varium, one of the staff talked about mission rewards as a possibility for cores, and promos with special cores
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 341
2/2/2013 18:19:21   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @drian You misread them. They said that some weapons will come with cores locked to them, weapons such as promos. Later on they may unlock the cores for you to remove. You can remove most cores when Omega comes around. And it's speculation right now how promo cores will differ. They may be like Infernal Spirit and only be useful in certain scenarios and only available to players who buy the promos. They may also just be a unique animation of something like Jack-o-Fire where you just get some extra damage.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 342
2/2/2013 18:23:22   
Drianx
Member

quote:

They may also just be a unique animation of something like Jack-o-Fire where you just get some extra damage.

They may also be the next varium sink. The new wave of keep-paying-to-keep-winning.
As long as this bad scenario is possible, I choose to believe it. I personally had no pleasant surprise in Epicduel, ever. All of them were just sour candy in shining paper.

quote:

Finally Cores will be credits or varium, one of the staff talked about mission rewards as a possibility for cores, and promos with special cores

Have you ever heard of the Omega exclusive cores, that come with Omega weapons, that are promo only?

< Message edited by Drianx -- 2/2/2013 18:24:51 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 343
2/2/2013 18:26:26   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 New Varium sink? Maybe, but if a core costs 300 varium and fully enhancing a weapon costs 1.2K varium(plus weapon cost whether it be a $50 promo or bought in game) that is one slow filling sink once you find a core that you like.

Good news on promos is you can read the core and what it does maybe see it in battle a few times and then decide you want to spend the money and get it instead of just going "OH SHINY! New promo." That sounds wrong but there are people who think like that

Read the last like six words in my quote it says promo cores which means things like Omega weapons that are promo only and have a special core

< Message edited by One Winged Angel1357 -- 2/2/2013 18:27:29 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 344
2/2/2013 18:27:42   
Ranloth
Banned


 If there won't be a Core Inventory, I can see how it may become a Varium sink. If there will be one (so you can re-apply cores BUT rare which are bound to specific item?), then it won't be.
AQ Epic  Post #: 345
2/2/2013 18:30:40   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 Trans maybe not an inventory but the Dev's might be able to modify the code used on hair styles to work for Cores on a specific weapon. They might catch a snag on cores being free for all weapons but I am pretty sure each weapon has something to identify it to the game code which could be used to fix that issue.

Or they could just make an inventory
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 346
2/2/2013 18:58:54   
Drianx
Member

It has been announced there will not be a core inventory, at least not at the start of Omega.
This means that if you want a core on 5 different weapons, you have to buy and equip it 5 times.

The funny thing is, if they decide to implement a core inventory later, there will be another... compensation. For those who bought the same core multiple times. It is so funny I can't stop laughing actually.
AQW Epic  Post #: 347
2/2/2013 19:41:18   
Vypie
Member

@Drianx

A core inventory has nothing to do with being able to buy one core for all weapons at once...

An inventory would instead allow you to store the cores you buy and remove from weapons, making possible for a removed core to be reapplied to a new other weapon (instead of being deleted upon removal).
However, you would still need to buy a core for each weapon. It would be an equipable item, so it simply makes sense.


What you are maybe thinking of is an Unlocking system, where you would buy one Core once, unlocking it, and then attaching it on as many weapons as you like. Similar to hairstyles.
Epic  Post #: 348
2/2/2013 19:51:45   
LVXYZ
Member

@Drianx I've forced myself to make lifetime use out of my Founder/Beta/Gamma/Delta items so far. The fact that they're upgradable to my level now, makes them a lifetime thing for me ;).
Post #: 349
2/3/2013 3:06:33   
Remorse
Member

Even if they add a cost each time despite it having an inventory.

Having a skill core inventory means that they don't have to delete rare cores upon changing the cores..


This means practically the whole time making the locking feature on certain rare skill cores could of been spent making a more practical solution which saves the cores you have.


Then they can decide whether or not to make it cost to insert the cores you have each time or not.


I do not see the possible reasoning why they would have to implement a feature which means you have to lose rare cores when you switch them around??

And for that matter why make it a feature which can't interchange rare skills on other weapons?



Or at least say you have a rare core, however you like using that weapon so you swap it to something more useful for your build, then if you switch builds back you can't ever have the rare core again???


I seriously hope a better system is made soon after the omega release, and possibly a quick of the mark mention of this so no one can complain that they wasted money on the first system.



I apologies to the devs if I have criticized and suggested something which is already in place. The fact this matter has been left unclear, means we can't really put good arguments to whats happening or not and why it should be different.





< Message edited by Remorse -- 2/3/2013 3:13:37 >
Epic  Post #: 350
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