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RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013

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1/30/2013 23:57:08   
Stabilis
Member

Luck in EpicDuel can be interchanged with surprises. This same "luck" can also be in the form of a dynamic opponent. I will argue that not knowing what your opponent is or uses is good luck and can be beneficial to EpicDuel using a demonstrational video to help me articulate my claims (this is an old video that I used in an old suggestion).

Video (click me)

Imagine that blocking/deflecting/critical striking in this video is how well the player aims or how they use their skills. The players in this game can move but imagine that their movement is simply a skill that synergizes with another skill to determine the magnitude (power) of another skill.

At 0:45 (I) the player traps another player with a skill to cause damage if the trapped player tries to move to escape. The trapped player did not know how to escape and resorted to attacking my teammate while staying still.

At 1:40 the trapped player lacks skills to combat me at close range so they tried to defend. They did not know that I was playing tactically instead of aggressively or defensively so they could have easily disabled my trap by letting the trap hit them early on or using an emergency teleport.

At 2:20 I did not know that the trapped player was about to teleport away so I lost the chance for a combo attack on that specific player. I also did not know that the other enemy had been in my area so I improvised by switching targets and continuing my assault on the other enemy. But even if the enemy had not arrived at my location, my back up plan was to use the traps to combo with those 3 summons you saw earlier on.

At 2:30 I proceeded to combo strike my target at a much higher success than expected. I did not know that my target was about to form a defensive "tower", leading me to switch to an aggressive state to break my target's tower.

At 3:20 I did not know that my target failed to trap me but instead trap themself, allowing my more inaccurate skills to be more accurate when I acted next. But I chose to use a weak accurate skill instead of a strong inaccurate skill because I was unsure if a "bomb" that I had in mind would penetrate the trap to damage at maximum capacity.

At 4:30 I was unsure if my bomb would position itself correctly, so I went on chance. The result of my bomb went as I expected (big expectation by the way), I wished the bomb would combo with that swirly fire thing for maximum damage, and it did, surprising me with an enemy of now critically low health, vulnerable to the lightest attack.



What I wanted to say here, is that you can have luck in how your turns play out by not knowing what could happen by the next turn, making the game that much more exciting... which is why I state that skill cores at the very least would be more enjoyable not seen GIVEN THAT random battle mechanics are more reasonable than today!

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 1/30/2013 23:59:09 >

_____________________________
AQ Epic  Post #: 176
1/31/2013 0:01:18   
Mother1
Member

@ remorse

Remorse for the cores themselves let me say it one more time. I am not against small counters such as things that would work against in build things such as EMP's or something like that. If you didn't see I was against there being 1 Core that counters every other core! That was what I was completely against, and I voiced that several times.

I mean seriously why would anyone buy a core and any core if there is 1 core to counter everything? That was the point I was trying to get across.

It was the same point I was trying to get across when we were going at it with the counter bot thing.

@ depressed

You don't have to tell me I actually agree with you. I personally feel being able to see cores would suck part of the fun out of the game. However those who disagree see it as a form of bad luck because most of them are thinking "if only I knew that they had this core I would have been able to counter them"

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 1/31/2013 0:04:27 >
Epic  Post #: 177
1/31/2013 0:08:52   
theholyfighter
Member

^Of course NOT 1 Core that encounters every other core...
Then it would decrease variety...
But one interesting question here that came to my mind: What kind of ability can face all other Cores? Then this answer came out: 100% Stuns your opponent for 2 turns. Cooldown: 1. Can be used several times in battle. Applies a DoT in both Health and Energy...

< Message edited by theholyfighter -- 1/31/2013 0:09:15 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 178
1/31/2013 0:23:18   
Remorse
Member

@ Depressed,

That is completely your opinion if you think battles more exciting if you dont know what is coming.

In my opinion and many others alike me what we find exciting is setting up a strategy better then your opponent and countering and outsmarting anything they throw at you sometimes before it happens, to be much more enjoyable.


The fact it luck in the strategy you choose in a blind battle disgusts me to say the least.

I find absolutely no enjoyment losing to someone with lack of strategy rather them happening to choose the strategy to beat me because we both cannot see what their is to chose from.


What you call a surprise excitement I call Frustrating lack of brain usage to determine wins.
One thing I really dislike is losing to someone who is not smarter then you simply because their strategy is uncounterable or because they blindingly got the right startegy.

Obviously I dont mid losing to less smart people due to RNG luck because that is unavoidable and I can understand that.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 1/31/2013 0:26:05 >
Epic  Post #: 179
1/31/2013 0:25:07   
theholyfighter
Member

ACTIVE and PASSIVE cores. Perhaps 1 of them is shown, 1 of them is hidden.
AQW Epic  Post #: 180
1/31/2013 0:33:37   
Mother1
Member

@ remorse

I remember you said everything needs counter so I have to ask how about some cores that counters blocks, deflections, crits, and stuns?
Epic  Post #: 181
1/31/2013 0:39:12   
My Name is Jake
Banned
quote:

Another solid day at the lab. Omega Gear is ready! Battle engine and Cores are done. Still a good bit of testing and polish left to go!

from Titan
AQW Epic  Post #: 182
1/31/2013 0:50:18   
Stabilis
Member

Are you upset Remorse, you seem upset? Sorry if I added onto that by advocating what you do not prefer.

Edit: Just to prove that what I demonstrated is reproducible and clearly strategy, not random, I will upload another video of the same game and win just as well or even better than that video (and of course walk-through why I made Y decision and how I reached X result, etc).

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 1/31/2013 0:58:48 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 183
1/31/2013 0:57:25   
theholyfighter
Member

quote:


Improve Several Interfaces 98%
New Golden Yeti Tournament System 90%
Final Balance / Testing Pass 0%


Current progress. Jan. 30
AQW Epic  Post #: 184
1/31/2013 1:02:01   
Mother1
Member

@ depressed void

Remorse hates anything that can produce negative luck. Having the cores invisible would be doing just that creating negative luck since you wouldn't be able to counter it if at all possible since you won't know it is coming.
Epic  Post #: 185
1/31/2013 1:06:27   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 No matter how hard you try there will be some core that you can never counter without being lucky and having the right core before battle. For example, say they make a Core that guarantees a stun but does no damage. You can't really counter that. You can shield and heal up but they can just wait out the shield and then hit you with it anyways. Or they could use it, then use an attack of the opposite damage type. Or they could just be using that stun to get the extra damage and to guarantee a hit on one of their melee attacks.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 186
1/31/2013 2:49:21   
Remorse
Member

^So that's one example when maybe perhaps you cant do anything,

But if their was a skill core that prolonged the opponent from doing their offensive skill cores for a few turns then that would be a counter wouldn't it?


But even if their is ONE skill core you can't counter that doesnt means battles should be blind because you can't do anything, thats one of possibly hundrends of skill cores you can prepare for wasted by the fact battles are blind.



@Depressed and mother,

Im not upset at all, Im sorry if im being to strong as to seem so.


I am merely VERY strong about this particular case because to me strategy setting up etc. is one of the few things I enjoy about this game.


I am posting very strongly against blind battles because if their starts to be a lot of cores and continues to be blind long into omega or if a poll is released and blind battles wins.

I fear this game will have nothing left for me to enjoy about it, and a lot of money I invested would be wasted.



What I wanna no is if you guys would care so much for it to be blind despite the fact some people will quit over it.

Because if they let us view the cores the game wouldn't of changed much considering you could see anything your opponent could do basically up till gamma.

And none of you guys complained about seeing everything then.




Also let me get this straight, I am not against RNG luck, blocks crits etc.

I know they are needed and they are fine.

What I am against is unpreventable luck and uncounterable power.


Epic  Post #: 187
1/31/2013 2:53:19   
Ranloth
Banned


 You want the battles not blind so people won't quit. What if people will quit because they wanted blind battles instead for sake of some luck to spice up things? You're looking only on one side of the argument, there's two.

(fixed a typo)

< Message edited by Trans -- 1/31/2013 2:54:49 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 188
1/31/2013 3:03:44   
SouL Prisoner
Member

^ how about a feature where u will have to pay 200-300 credits to view ur opponents cores , wat do u think ??

P.s . Any battle that u think is hard, and u wanna nor ur ops cores. Then just spend 200-300 credits and view them :)

< Message edited by SOuL Prisnor -- 1/31/2013 3:05:28 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 189
1/31/2013 3:17:05   
Remorse
Member

I Know their is two sides to the argument trans,

I mentioned it, But i also mentioned the other side is less likely to quit because the majority of the game has been a full insight of the opponents abilities and in those times people rarely complained about seeing them.
Epic  Post #: 190
1/31/2013 3:24:10   
Ranloth
Banned


 Likely less to quit =/= less people will quit. You don't have proof for that. It's not like you know their "cores" now but you know what abilities items have anyway, difference in Omega will be more of these. And you cannot use "likely less to quit" to support your idea to the point where other side (call it 'my' side) is irrelevant because there's less of them.

Some people wanted to be able to not show their build to players. That means they would be more in for lucky-based fight, am I right? And here, we're talking about few cores only which not everyone may have (lack of Credits/Varium).
AQ Epic  Post #: 191
1/31/2013 3:44:23   
King FrostLich
Member

What's with everyone ranting about cores when we have no idea what the cores are right now and what they do in battle?
Epic  Post #: 192
1/31/2013 4:25:33   
kaiseryeux21
Member

well, seems like most of the players are too excited about omega that they tend to discuss features not yet tested. :-)
DF Epic  Post #: 193
1/31/2013 5:26:11   
Remorse
Member

What I think should be done in the near future,

Hopefully as more players join the game is create more battle modes.


1v1, 2v2, an jugg are all well in good, but alternate version of each could also be added as well.

For example you click 1v1 and a bar pops up allowing for you to pick different versions of 1v1.


The version could include,

-Normal ( can see everything the opponent has)
-Skill cores blind ( can't see skill core of the opponent)
-Fully blind, (cant see any skills only stats)


In many games their are alternate version of basically the same thing, such as in COD ( call of duty) and other shooters their is often different battle modes of a normal deathmatch one showing the radar on the map and one having it completely blind.

In many ways that is very similar to this discussion now, Some people like being able to see people on radar, and others like being fully blind.


Following the example free for all would be something like 1v1, and team deathmatch 2v2.

If you say you dont support having diffrent versions of 1v1 and 2v2 etc. in epic duel for the reason it's not different enough then.
Basically you are not supporting variety in battle modes because their isnt much more in terms of completely different battle mode types they can add.
But their is always plenty of different version of the same type of game that can be added.




All of the above I am assuming their would be enough players to make the newer versions, obviously they would not be released all at once just as much as the game progresses with the population rise.


So please do not shut my reasoning don solely on the basis their isn't enough players because time is the only factor effecting that.



< Message edited by Remorse -- 1/31/2013 5:48:35 >
Epic  Post #: 194
1/31/2013 5:49:03   
SouL Prisoner
Member

quote:

^ how about a feature where u will have to pay 200-300 credits to view ur opponents cores , wat do u think ??

P.s . Any battle that u think is hard, and u wanna nor ur ops cores. Then just spend 200-300 credits and view them :)


Did anyone read this??? any suggestion ??
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 195
1/31/2013 6:24:02   
Remorse
Member

^ Sorry soul,
But I dislike that idea,

It shouldn't have to be pay how you like the game or, if you like blind battles, people shouldn't be able to get an advantage over you,


If has to be either fully blind or fully not, different battle mode versions allow both to be exist.

The only way I personally would accept a mixture of both is say they made a passive skill core to hide a single activateable skill core.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 1/31/2013 6:26:46 >
Epic  Post #: 196
1/31/2013 7:13:48   
SouL Prisoner
Member

quote:

made a passive skill core to hide a single activateable skill core.



-.- ??

All ur saying is u wanna pay more and make it a skill core ... :S ??
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 197
1/31/2013 7:22:31   
Segaman
Member

well, they have time to write all these progress but not having time to do the launch. it said to be launched in jan, and it's feb now. disappointment again ;(
AQW Epic  Post #: 198
1/31/2013 7:29:28   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

its not feb for them yet, remember the time difference, they still got a whole day
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 199
1/31/2013 7:31:11   
SouL Prisoner
Member

^ :D Love u for your Super high hopes :P
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 200
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