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My Idea to Fix Static Charge

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3/16/2013 11:46:09   
Midnightsoul
Member

In my idea, Static Charge's damage and energy regen should be based on the AVERAGE dmg of the aux plus the primary.


If you're abusing str but you're supp is low, you wont do so high and abuse so much energy.
And if your supp is high but your str is low, you wont hit so low and get so low energy.

Another thing I would like to see in Static Charge is if its ENERGY REGEN (not damage) ignores 50% of the opponents defenses. In Omega, Static cant be abusable because of the following:

1) majority of tanking
2) Str and Supp scales more slowly
3) Stats arent as abusable as before because it's Omega now :)

The reason why I say 50% defense ignore for Static is because it gives a Cyber Hunter a guaranteed amount (which would be at least around 6 if you're lvl 35), but at the same time, they must think tactically if they needed more energy.



Equation:

Damage; (Primary Damage+Auxiliary Damage)*0.5 - Opponent's Defense= Outcome Damage
Energy Regen; [(Primary Damage+Auxiliary Damage)*0.5 - (Opponent's Defense)*0.5]*Static Charge Effect= Outcome energy regen

Please give criticism. Remember, this is a concept, not an exact idea. Do you guys like my idea? :)

< Message edited by Midnightsoul -- 3/16/2013 18:02:14 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 1
3/16/2013 13:00:08   
xGreen Warriorx
Member

Having static work with aux as well as your primary is a really good idea.

The formula and everything else is confusing me though. Are you saying that statics energy regain is ignoring 50% of your opponents def/res and the actual dmg youre doing is 50% less?
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
3/16/2013 13:21:31   
Midnightsoul
Member

On the energy regen part, yes. If it the energy regen ignores all defenses, it's too strong and right now it's too weak since all defenses effect it. So this obviously means that having it in the middle is most balanced. :) This is why I say 50%.



On the damage part, it means it's the average of your aux and primary damage.

so say if implement certain numbers in and I'm using a support build..

My primary does 5-6 +35 so we'll just assume it hits 40.
My aux does 21-26 +39 so we'll just assume it hits 60.
Let's say my primary is energy and my opponent's resistance is 26-32 +3 so we'll just assume it reduces 29 damage.

So like I said on the damage part:
(Primary+Aux)*0.5 - Opponent's Defense= Outcome Damage

Now if I put it in, it's:
(40+60)*0.5 - 29= Outcome
50 - 29= 21 Energy Damage.


< Message edited by Midnightsoul -- 3/16/2013 14:12:32 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 3
3/16/2013 16:47:24   
xGreen Warriorx
Member

@Midnightsoul
Ok I understand now. However, if you even midly abuse str and supp, your formula becomes very OP. In the example above, if you apply the energy regain formula to it where the opponents res gets cut in half, the CH gets about 37 energy back. Thats way too much.
___________________________________________________________________________________________

My suggestion for the formulas:

Damage: [Primary Damage + Auxiliary Damage]*0.40 - [Opponent's Def/Res]*1.05 = Outcome damage
Energy Regain: [Primary Damage + Auxiliary Damage]*0.40 - [Opponent's Def/Res]*0.80 (at max static) = Outcome energy regain

Static charge lvl scaling:
Lvl 1: 3% of opponents def/res ignored for energy regain
2: 4%
3: 5%
4: 6%
5: 8%
6: 10%
7: 12%
8: 14%
9: 17%
10: 20%

In the formula, it says *0.80 (80%) because thats how much of the opponents def/res is not ignored.
_________________________________________________________________________________________

So, using the above numbers:
[Primary Damage + Auxiliary Damage]*0.40 - [Opponent's Def/Res]*1.05 = Outcome damage
[40 + 60]*0.40 - [29]*1.05
40 - 30 = 10 damage

[Primary Damage + Auxiliary Damage]*0.40 - [Opponent's Def/Res]*0.80 (at max static) = Outcome energy regain
[40 + 60]*0.40 - [29]*0.80
[100]*0.40 - 23.2
40 - 23 = 17 energy regained
AQW Epic  Post #: 4
3/16/2013 18:00:38   
Midnightsoul
Member

Oh I forgot to put something for the Energy Regen effect.
So currently, the SC is 30% at Max.

Energy Regen:
[(Primary+Aux)*0.5 - (Opponent's Defenses)*0.5]*Static Charge Effect= Outcome Regen
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 5
3/16/2013 18:45:08   
rayniedays56
Member

This all seems nice, but rather confusing.How about, simply, raising the percent obtained?
old
quote:

Level 1: 15% Dmg to Energy
Level 2: 17% Dmg to Energy
Level 3: 19% Dmg to Energy
Level 4: 21% Dmg to Energy
Level 5: 23% Dmg to Energy
Level 6: 25% Dmg to Energy
Level 7: 27% Dmg to Energy
Level 8: 28% Dmg to Energy
Level 9: 29% Dmg to Energy
Level 10: 30% Dmg to Energy



New:

Level 1: 20% Dmg to Energy
Level 2: 24% Dmg to Energy
Level 3: 28% Dmg to Energy
Level 4: 32% Dmg to Energy
Level 5: 35% Dmg to Energy
Level 6: 38% Dmg to Energy
Level 7: 41% Dmg to Energy
Level 8: 43% Dmg to Energy
Level 9: 44% Dmg to Energy
Level 10: 45% Dmg to Energy


This basically a 15% boost on max.

You hit a 27 with a level 7 Static Charge. 41% of 27 is a 12 EP regain.

< Message edited by rayniedays56 -- 3/16/2013 18:47:58 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 6
3/16/2013 18:54:04   
Ranloth
Banned


 Don't push it. We've already been at 40%'ish and it went down. Give it 5% raise at all levels, simple as. So at L10, when you hit 30 damage, instead of getting 9 Energy back, you will get 11 instead. It's still a boost, small one but it cannot be big either. 15% boost would be pushing it really.
AQ Epic  Post #: 7
3/16/2013 19:24:10   
Midnightsoul
Member

Raising the percent will not make it any better.
Giving static charge a defense ignore for its energy regen is extremely vital for its survival.
I'm only saying 50%...
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 8
3/16/2013 19:28:24   
Mother1
Member

Not supported in the least. You saw what happened when Static had the ability to go through defenses. It was vastly abused and you had no way to counter it. Plus even with it ignoring half your defenses it is still vastly OP. Look at the moves that ignore defnese's. They only ignore 20% of your defenses at best with the exception of cheap shot depending on level. Let's not make static's only counter once again hoping for a block which we all know is luck, and you know how everyone feels about luck.
Epic  Post #: 9
3/16/2013 20:33:34   
rayniedays56
Member

@trans

5% though is really not much since they buffed bloodlust and assimilation, whereas assimilation can give back more EP then Static Charge can.

I would say...15% is a BIT much. Maybe increasing the effects like this...:

Level 1: 10% Dmg to Energy
Level 2: 14% Dmg to Energy
Level 3: 18% Dmg to Energy
Level 4: 22% Dmg to Energy
Level 5: 26% Dmg to Energy
Level 6: 29% Dmg to Energy
Level 7: 32% Dmg to Energy
Level 8: 35% Dmg to Energy
Level 9: 38% Dmg to Energy
Level 10: 40% Dmg to Energy

This is a 10% increase. , where also the lower level of static charge has been lowered a bit to encourage players to allocate more skill points into static charge. Remember that this 10% increase has been used because of the difference in damages being lowered, as was Blood Lusts. The skill is STILL counterable since it doesn't go through defenses, and it still won't give back a HUGE amount of EP. Remember that this skill requires nice strength and nice dexterity to be used properly.



quote:

You saw what happened when Static had the ability to go through defenses. It was vastly abused and you had no way to counter it.



Intimidation and higher dexterity were two major counters to the skill. This skill wasn't OP before Plasma Armor, please remember this. However, Static Needs a definite rework. I just do not feel comfortable gaining 3 EP back when I hit with a decent static charge (level 7 is what I use) **I'm not going to use the overused strength/support. I like to think with my builds.

< Message edited by rayniedays56 -- 3/16/2013 20:38:29 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
3/16/2013 20:40:18   
Ranloth
Banned


 Don't compare it to Assimilate. It'll get nerfed soon enough, so comparing broken skill to SC would be.. bad idea. Yet alone balancing SC off it.
AQ Epic  Post #: 11
3/16/2013 20:44:33   
NDB
Member

@mother1
Cheap shot is only 20% because it deals with the actual damage being done. You can't compare that with energy. And why would you say Static Charge would become Op when Assimilation now gives way more energy than it, while draining the enemy's at the same time. We must adjust SC to become more stable and reliable or change Assimilation.
Epic  Post #: 12
3/16/2013 20:58:21   
Mother1
Member

@ raynie

Luck doesn't count as a counter as I am talking about a stregtic counter not a luck based one, and Intimadate only 2 classes had so the other four needed to rely on luck to counter this skill. Also Raynie static was OP the moment it was brought into the game. Even without plasma armor back then it went through your defenses and you still got the 44% of your raw damage which was like 20+ energy for some. Just because the class itself wasn't OP doesn't mean Static itself wasn't.

@ NDB

cheap shot can ignore up to as much as 34% of defenses depending on the level it is powered up to. And yes i can compare it because any effect that goes through all your defenses to do anything HP or EP wise is OP and we both know this. Why should me or anyone else who doesn't have intimidate hope for a block which is luck based just to counter static? If you need to use luck to counter something then you know the move is OP.

The main reason why people are saying static is UP IMO is because look at how it was originally. before no matter what build you went against be it tank or no defense you could always gain x amount of energy back because it worked with your potential damage meaning it went through defenses. Now that it doesn't go through your defenses and everyone is using static like they used to expecting to get back X amount of energy but isn't is having a fit about it. Static was completely brainless IMO since all you needed to do was connect it to get back X energy where as now you have to think before using it which IMO is how static should have been from the start.
Epic  Post #: 13
3/16/2013 21:29:47   
rayniedays56
Member

quote:

Also Raynie static was OP the moment it was brought into the game. Even without plasma armor back then it went through your defenses and you still got the 44% of your raw damage which was like 20+ energy for some.


The old Static Charge was 60% at the start, then was lowered to 55%, then to 44%,then finally to 29% :) And yes, with no plasma armor, it would NEED to be higher. Why? Well, the class had one passive, which was luck based. With no HP regain or EP regain, static charge filled in those gaps, which consequently allowed multiple builds to be used without overpowering the class. I remember one of my favorite builds for static charge was a high technology caster build, which with technician, was fitful. I use Plasma Grenade and EMP grenade heavily with this build, which worked at a nice win ratio, was about 75-85%I believe.

Then came Plasma Armor, which took out technician and gave the Cyber Hunter two passives, one of which was luck based, the other being an armor. Swiftly, players saw the opening that Plasma Armor gave and went to it, and IMMEDIATELY abused Static Charge, I am sad to say, which led to its needed nerf. However, the nerf wasn't enough, so later on, Static Charge was changed AGAIN to 30% of ACTUAL damage. I ws worried and may have ranted with this, but eventually saw that it worked more strategically without being overpowered.

Then came Omega. With defenses lowered, damages lowered HEAVILY, and cores added, the nerf gave to Cyber Hunters in Delta for Static Charge deemed way too much. This is why I propose a 10% buff to static charge, as put on with my latest post. This will, I believe, give Cyber Hunters a decent EP regain which we saw back in Delta after the nerf.

Right now, I am seeing much less EP regenerated than with Delta, and this is whyso many players aren'tusing Static Charge and just running with plasma Armor, malfunction, and massacre, which is deadly in itself.

See my reasoning why I believe Static needs a small buff?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
3/16/2013 21:32:48   
Ranloth
Banned


 Yeah, with no PA it could be higher but PA is here so it shouldn't be. ;) Also, small buff =/= giving it 150% (*1.5) boost. That's a big buff already, and remember they have PA and debuff on top of it. You cannot give them active EP regen that is as powerful as say Reroute (even if blockable) because it'll break the balance.
AQ Epic  Post #: 15
3/16/2013 21:40:02   
rayniedays56
Member

quote:

Also, small buff =/= giving it 150% (*1.5) boost


I gaveit a 150% boost? O_O

**checks posts**

I think I lowered it on lower levels and heightened it by+10% on max.

Did I write 1.5, cause if I did...typos xD
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 16
3/16/2013 21:42:31   
Ranloth
Banned


 150% boost = 30% * 1.5 (effectively 150%) = 45%. Whilst it seems small, 15% is a lot especially if you count in the fact you have PA and Malf on top of it. SC is supposed to be EP version of Frenzy, not too weak nor too powerful since you have respectable passive skills to cover you.
AQ Epic  Post #: 17
3/16/2013 21:46:15   
rayniedays56
Member

Oh okie.


I changed it to 40%, while reducing many lower levels. This boost MAY be what Cyber's need to create more viable build options. I don't think 10% is a lot :/
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 18
3/16/2013 21:54:55   
Ranloth
Banned


 But you're making SC a must to have in a build to survive, that's why it was nerfed in the first place. You're not supposed to have a certain skill just to compete, thus you could forgoe it (Lvl 1) and move onto other skills. Problem doesn't lie in the fact it's weak but lack of skills perhaps? If BHs, BMs and Mercs can survive without Energy then so can CHs without having to rely on SC.

For example, if you make Plasma Grenade equal to Stun Grenade (basically, lower EP cost), take out Cheap Shot for some other new skill (can be like CS but perhaps some new interesting effect that cores may have; check Core Suggestion Thread). Matrix + PA make powerful combo so you have Shields but no stat booster, so perhaps good idea would be skill such as Reflex (Dex) that negates % of incoming damage - because making it give HP back is pretty much like Merc's BC - which could work well in place of Matrix + it'd work with Multi (although Malf + Reflex + Multi could be very powerful, it takes 2 turns to cast Malf + Reflex and then Multi thus enough to Shield, deal damage, drain EP, etc.).

CHs don't really need SC, in a way that they must have it to win & that's Dev's intention in terms of passives when they'll get revamped. You should NOT need to rely on a certain skill to win. It should aid you but not be a must.
AQ Epic  Post #: 19
3/17/2013 1:13:13   
theholyfighter
Member

The main problem is how it is calculated, not the %. Percentages do NOT matter if they don't have at least 10% more. If the % increased < 10, then that's just bs. Either have a buff for more than 10% or change its way of calculation.
AQW Epic  Post #: 20
3/17/2013 10:13:00   
Midnightsoul
Member

@Mother
Tanking still effects the energy regen of Static in my equation. Only HALF of it is ignored so a Cybers energy regen can still vary, but it just won't regen below a certain number which would be low. I'm also trying to make it so that support builds can use it too because before, Static was only effected by strength and it was unfair to these supp CHs. Sorry if you uncomfortable with the idea...

@Trans
I understand you want the balance of the skills, but on the other hand, Static Charge was the essential move to make Cyber a creative class. In my eyes, I like how passives are used because it takes skill and some intelligence to use compared to more of a caster style.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 21
3/17/2013 10:25:40   
Ranloth
Banned


 But too big buff cannot be given. I wish I could find my post regarding SC since it had some ideas there which I can briefly put out but don't remember exactly:
  • Give it base EP regained (say min. 1 EP at Lvl 1 and up to 5 EP at Lvl 10). So if you hit 3 damage, you'll always get the base back.
  • Lower the damage it deals but make EP regen always work regardless if it hits or not (same % as it is now though; so EP regen would be calculated as it is now BUT you'd deal less damage)
  • Make it regen EP only and deal no damage - just like Generator - by giving higher % (perhaps based on your EP so say max is 20% and your Energy is 60 then you get 12 EP back per use). But %s would have to be cut down by even half with this. (30% of 100 Energy would be.. 30 EP back per use..)
  • Make the 1st and 2nd bullet point work together.

    Wouldn't #3 be better? Since CHs are already quite tanky (look at PA and Defence Matrix instead of stat booster), losing a turn for getting reliable amount of EP back wouldn't hurt. Say 5% at Lvl 1 and 15% at Lvl 10 of your total EP -> 10% of 60 would be 6 EP back whilst 20% would be 12 EP back. That's with base Energy which is around 60 but you always get it back. Train it higher and you'll get more Energy back. Of course you wouldn't attack hence why it could regen more than current SC and it wouldn't be bad idea either. You're always guaranteed to get EP back and it gets higher as you train your Energy higher.

    Remember, %s I've used are an example. But since it could be reliable and quite good (use Lvl 5 which could have 15% thus regaining 9 EP with base 60 Energy), cooldown could be raised by 1 to prevent abusing it. Yes it deals no damage so you lose a turn worth of damage but it's also good to regain Energy and gets better as you train your own Energy.
    • AQ Epic  Post #: 22
    3/17/2013 10:28:09   
    theholyfighter
    Member

    quote:

    Make it regen EP only and deal no damage - just like Generator - by giving higher % (perhaps based on your EP so say max is 20% and your Energy is 60 then you get 12 EP back per use). But %s would have to be cut down by even half with this. (30% of 100 Energy would be.. 30 EP back per use..)


    You mean a CH's energy pool at full energy? Or else a CH without any energy can't get any energy...
    AQW Epic  Post #: 23
    3/17/2013 10:29:26   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 Total Energy, so it'd always take the % of your total EP and give it back. So if your total Energy is 70 then it'll take % and give it back. Not current Energy, total. I'll create my own thread so expect more explanation there.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 24
    3/17/2013 11:11:02   
    Midnightsoul
    Member

    		Like the energy u start out with. So it wont be affected by how many specials u use...
    DF AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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