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RE: Plasma Bolt

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4/8/2013 22:24:00   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

Fireball = massive Damage plus health recover

funny, i think the devs must have forgot to add that part to skill description. dang devs!


quote:

How so? Reroute is a defense passive while bloodlust is an offensive passive. When I use plasma bolt I don't get back energy, but if I was to use fireball with bloodlust I gain back health.

*cough* Assimilation *cough*


im willing to bet my lvl 2 plasma bolt does more damage than a max fireball build (thats viable) and mines costs way less.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 4/8/2013 22:25:32 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 26
4/8/2013 22:34:12   
Mother1
Member

@ goldslayer

We both know the main reason why fireball was nerfed in the first place. Back when it was plasma bolt equal (power wise) it was vastly abused and the strength BM build was raining supreme because of it. That was why they nerfed fireball in the first place. Even with the strength nerf buffing fireball back to Plasma bolt's level (which is OP) would OP strength blood mage all over again.
Epic  Post #: 27
4/8/2013 22:39:42   
goldslayer1
Member

@mother1
back then, was completely different game.
since then, deadly aim has been weakened.
strength has been severely weakened.
HP has been reduced (those fireball builds had 140 hp)
and berserker is no longer in the blood mage skill tree.

make your fireball build again, and ur still gonna get torn to shreds by focus builds.
ur overacting.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 4/8/2013 22:46:01 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 28
4/8/2013 22:55:23   
Mother1
Member

quote:

since then, deadly aim has been weakened.


At one point from max and even if I use level 8 I will be down by 2

quote:

strength has been severely weakened.


Buff fireball back up and it will doing the same damage as plasma bolt

quote:

HP has been reduced (those fireball builds had 140 hp)


HP was reduced yes, but agility has also been removed as well meaning no diminishing factor for health over 110

quote:

and berserker is no longer in the blood mage skill tree


Even when it was removed BM was still OP and was still destroying the masses until the fireball nerf.

quote:

make your fireball build again, and ur still gonna get torn to shreds by focus builds.
ur overacting


I use focus builds TM right now, and even without this buff I still sometimes lose to Strength BM. Buff fireball back up and even with all these nerfs it will still be issues. Plus even though you are saying Bloodlust is no excuse for fireball not being the equal to plasma bolt, let not forget as I stated before Plasma bolt is still vastly OP. To make fireball equal to the current Plasma bolt would be Overpowering it once again since as I said before Plasma bolt is OP.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 4/8/2013 22:56:04 >
Epic  Post #: 29
4/8/2013 23:00:19   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

Even when it was removed BM was still OP and was still destroying the masses until the fireball nerf.

this was because they replaced berserker with bludgeon. which was a mini zerker but costs less.

the scale for str builds is way weaker now.
anyone who uses a high strength build is leaving themselves very vulnerable on defenses. even without agility.

quote:

I use focus builds TM right now, and even without this buff I still sometimes lose to Strength BM. Buff fireball back up and even with all these nerfs it will still be issues. Plus even though you are saying Bloodlust is no excuse for fireball not being the equal to plasma bolt, let not forget as I stated before Plasma bolt is still vastly OP. To make fireball equal to the current Plasma bolt would be Overpowering it once again since as I said before Plasma bolt is OP.


i never said fireball should be buffed. im just simply pointing out that bloodlust should not be an excuse for another skill's weakness.

they should be equal, am i saying buff fireball? maybe, maybe not.
AQW Epic  Post #: 30
4/8/2013 23:08:17   
Mother1
Member

@ goldslayer

Well fireball unlike every other strength move scales differently than the rest. Every strength move is a melee attack with fireball being the exception. The only difference between fireball and plasma bolt is the stat the scale with and the amount needed to increase the damage.

Fireball needs 4 strength
Plasma bolt needs 3 tech.

Plasma bolt as it is now as I said before is OP so buffing fireball even with all the strength nerfs would get the same damage output as plasma bolt since Fireball doesn't follow the rest of moves with strength. However if Plasma bolt was nerfed to scale with 4 tech instead of three, then it would be doing what the OP wanted (making fireball and plasma bolt equals) as well as nerfing a move that is vastly OP. So I am not against making them equals, however I am against buffing Fireball to do so since it is the only move that doesn't scale like a strength move.
Epic  Post #: 31
4/8/2013 23:14:14   
goldslayer1
Member

@mother1
every 3 tech, + resistance tanking for plasma bolt users.
u dont get tanking for spamming str.
this is why str builds have low %, but are faster in battles.
AQW Epic  Post #: 32
4/9/2013 2:56:36   
ale6300
Member

@goldslayer1 With Plasma bolt you can get tanking, but with Str you get a Powerful Glass Cannon With Blood Lust, Fireball, Bludgeon, and rage gun with Deadly Aim, these are the differences you cant compare a skill that use a defensive stat, with another that use a offensive stat.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 33
4/9/2013 3:23:07   
goldslayer1
Member

@ale
right now
Defense > Offense

look at the progressions for offensive stats (str/support) then look at defensive stats (dex/tech)
AQW Epic  Post #: 34
4/9/2013 12:17:03   
Coolkid1999
Banned


 I Laugh At All This BS The Max Damage Blood Lust Could Give From It Is Like +10 All I Want Is Fire Ball Damage Increased By Like Maybe +10 Points To Match Plasma Bolt? And All You Haters Do Is Disagree And Mother1 Never Agrees With Anything Her Names Says The Truth All She Can Say Is No Just Like Most Mothers In The World.
Post #: 35
4/9/2013 12:47:11   
Melbourne
Member

Coolkid people take things in different ways. Mother does have a little tendency to disagree but the forums are meant for discussion. If someone disagrees with you they are trying to help the game were playing. Flaming won't help.
AQW Epic  Post #: 36
4/9/2013 13:03:10   
Mother1
Member

@ coolkid

Did you hear me disagree with this topic? I said I don't agree with buffing fireball to the power of plasma bolt because Plasma bolt as it is now is OP. However I also did say that I agree with nerfing Plasma bolt to match the power of fireball. So in other words I disagree with buffing fireball to plasma bolt's power however I didn't agree with not making them equals.

Nerfing Plasma bolt to the level of fireball would make them equals or didn't you read my first post? here it is in case you didn't see it

quote:

Buffing fireball to match Plasma bolt? No thank you. I was around when half the community jumped to the OP strength BM because it rewarded fast wins against just about every build. However making Plasma bolt match fireball? not a bad idea. TM still has malf and technician to power it up where are BM doesn't have smoke or Blood/field commander to buff up the attack.


In other words I never disagreed with you on making fireball match plasma bolt in power. I just didn't agree with buffing fireball to plasma bolt's level because it is OP as it is now.
Epic  Post #: 37
4/9/2013 17:31:16   
rayniedays56
Member

How about making Plasma Bolt match Fireballs power?

Because honestly, Tech Mages have reroute, which allows for more Plasma Bolts, they have Technician, which powers up Plasma Bolt, and they have Malfunction, which makes Plasma Bolt that much more powerful. AND it gains power every 3 Technology. I say 4 Tech instead of 3 will make this skill balkanced a bit more.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 38
4/9/2013 18:16:19   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 One problem is TM right now is quite a weak class. Caster builds aren't exceptionally strong, and their only viable damage skill is malf and plasma, since deadly aim got nerfed.
Epic  Post #: 39
4/9/2013 18:23:03   
Ranloth
Banned


 DA caused a loss of 2 damage at most, boo hoo. Not everyone trained it either. And it was needed since Beta too.
Casters aren't exceptionally strong must also be a joke, since you can do Lvl 5 Bolt with around 120 Tech easily, invest in SC and rest wherever you want. Lvl 5 Bolt will do around 70 damage for 21 EP was it? Maxed does more, obviously. You forgot Malf works with all Energy skills, so Multi + Overload combo works (in 1v1).

Quite a weak class is an understatement since they can fight fairly well, not only Casters. Seems like you haven't seen Mercenaries that aren't abusing Support. Currently, players claim that every single class is UP and every single one is OP as well. What now? Only because you can't beat it or can't fight as one, isn't a balance issue because the problem may be with you and your build. They are beatable, they aren't UP and they don't need a buff.
AQ Epic  Post #: 40
4/9/2013 18:55:11   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Did you look at my character page? I'm a merc right now and I've been one for a majority of Omega, and I'm faring quite well as semi-support focus with 9 surg.

Against classes with an EP remover, caster is near useless as you can just heal out of it and constantly remove EP every 2 turns. Because reroute is predictable, you can take advantage of it and manipulate it in your favor so your opponent never gets enough energy to use plasma bolt. Also, casters tend to, near the endgame, gamble the entire win off of a last plasma bolt. They're skrewed if you use energy storm/energy shot and mess them up to a point where healing would just slow down their loss. The class can only deal solid damage for at max up to turn 4, then it's pretty much sealed. And when I said exceptionally strong, I meant that they're past an average win rate of 70%, not that they're weak right now.

And I still stick with my statement that TM is currently one of the weaker classes. I was a TM for most of my play time during delta, and I did pretty well with it. After the deadly aim nerf, I found it much harder to win with. While the DA nerf doesn't seem like much, note that +9 damage is only achievable at level 10 now. Before it was attainable at level 6... 4 skill points is quite a lot. Also, you state that deadly aim has needed a nerf since beta. As of now, reroute is a weak passive compared to blood lust and passive armors. Why? It can easily be maniuplated, only gives you benefits if you survive the attack, will make the user lose lots of efficiency with it if they don't go first, and total HP overall is much less than what it once was. So a class with an already weaker than average passive deserved a nerf on their only strong passive, huh?
Epic  Post #: 41
4/9/2013 20:35:56   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

One problem is TM right now is quite a weak class. Caster builds aren't exceptionally strong, and their only viable damage skill is malf and plasma, since deadly aim got nerfed.

mage isn't as weak as everyone makes them out to be.

i was a focus max surgical tlm, and my mage currently performs (87%) on par with it.
most of the times the loses are due to luck, not player skills.
AQW Epic  Post #: 42
4/9/2013 21:02:14   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 This is just my observation, but since Omega released, there has been less players using EP removers. Coincidentally, (I'm not saying your build was caster) caster TMs and surgical TLMs are quite vulnerable to EP removers. Either way, I can't really disagree with a fact that 87% is a pretty dang good win rate given inconsistencies in luck in Omega, so you may have a point there. What TM build are you using?
Epic  Post #: 43
4/9/2013 21:09:11   
goldslayer1
Member

@exploding
base EP and base HP caster.
decent dex, the rest on tech.

see, because energy and hp are already high, i have no need to invest in it.
energy might seem low, but i also have lvl 8 assimilation.
i have 2 build options.

i can either go and lower my bolt to lvl 2 and increase FM and technician, or i can keep bolt at lvl 5.
bolt at lvl 2 does 70 damage for me. so its all good :)
but i dont have 1 energy drainer. i have 3. which is why im not drained as much.

most BHs and CH carry field medic, i get their energy to the point where they are forced to choose, heal or EMP. they always pick heal. (they have to, or they die anyway)

CH or malf mages cant win, my technician is good (and tech is way too high for them)
BMs cant win cause they cant drain energy. they require luck.

sword tlms cant win either.
the only ones who have a good chance are focus BHs with luck, and atom smash tlms.

although i reckon i could improve that % if i had azrael gun.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 4/9/2013 21:13:39 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 44
4/9/2013 23:14:02   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 There's also the viable build of cheap shot spamming since it can effectively do an extra +4-5 damage per use, plus a high crit chance which can really mess up your base HP, but wrist blades are pretty much never used now. The thing about base HP builds is that they're extremely susceptible to massacre, but no one invests in that no, do they? BH massacre would definitely be a strong opponent of your build because generator could counter assimilation, level 7-ish massacre could easily do 40-50 damage, and smoke could just block assimilation anyways if you try and stack it with energy shot, energy storm, or frostbite. But, as you said in a previous post concerning your win rate, your win rate would still be mainly determined by luck. The thing about that caster build is that its only strong counters are nearly nonexistent since they don't necessarily counter well against most other builds or they're just hard to use and thus the majority of players don't use the build. However, I'd hardly call a single class not weak just because one build is quite successful (which it wouldn't be if the community would get off the exactly same focus build and try other focus variants or just entirely new build).

My initial post stated that TLM would need a buff on its other skills, but I didn't necessarily say anything about plasma bolt and whether or not it should be nerfed. Plasma bolt is a staple for lots of TM builds, which is kind of a shame, because without a crutch like it pretty much TM as a class would fall apart entirely except for 1 or 2 builds that wouldn't even do average and would be highly based off of luck.
Epic  Post #: 45
4/10/2013 0:45:41   
goldslayer1
Member

i have 36+ defense
a str bh would only take about 5-7 defense lvls. unlike the focus BHs who have huge smokescreens.

seeing how i have 3 energy drainers, assimilation, energy shot, and frostbite, it most likely wont come down to it.
i did fight like 3 str BHs, and won all 3. 2 however weren't lvl 35s.

but yes plasma bolt could be in the mix for most builds.

however i may end up doing some "improvements" to the build to see if it performs better.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 4/10/2013 0:47:05 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 46
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