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Infernal Android

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4/16/2013 4:48:54   
goldslayer1
Member

Infernal android is still OP IMO.

i hit 30+ damage every rage with infernal android... on 0 focus.

does anyone else have an issue with this? that it can hit so much with 0 focus?
i tried the other robots, none of them come close to that much damage on 0 focus.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 4/16/2013 4:52:16 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
4/16/2013 4:54:32   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

your technology must be very low, it has never happened to me.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 2
4/16/2013 4:55:28   
goldslayer1
Member

@trizz
did u read what i wrote?
i have 0 focus, and it still hit 30s on rage. meanwhile the other bots struggle to get past 15.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 4/16/2013 4:57:08 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 3
4/16/2013 4:58:06   
Blitzex/Sr. Zeph
Banned


 I think it should be very high instead of low trizz..
Epic  Post #: 4
4/16/2013 5:01:58   
goldslayer1
Member

@blitzex
yes it is high given my current build.

im posting this because i have 0 focus, but i use infernal android as a 2nd source of damage for rages when plasma bolt isn't available. and its been getting the job done.

if i use technician, rage android starts reaching the low 40s.

i did the calculations

it does 45-50
and when i have technician on, it does
50-55
not including enemy defenses.

however add in rage and it pretty much cuts enemy defense in half.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 4/16/2013 5:13:08 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 5
4/16/2013 7:13:04   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

oh yeah, must have misread it, that's why i don't go on the forums on a moving vehicle.
still you opponent must have very low tech, do the calculations, it should do no more than 20 damage. i have tried it with 0 but never got your sort of damage on rage
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 6
4/16/2013 8:12:41   
Calogero
Member

5 focus builds with Android do, and I kid you not, 50/60 damage on a Rage...

Doesn't matter wether I have 32-38 +22 resistance or not...
When Android rages, it's pretty much over...

Thing I love the most is that despite this damage, it's still only a 12 damage bot...
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
4/16/2013 8:36:01   
Ranloth
Banned


 Bump Focus from +6 damage/1 Focus to +5 damage/1 Focus, which will lower the damage of all Bots (since Focus is OP, or so people say but whatever). This means IA will also get bumped down, with other Bots. And since Focus > other builds (power wise - apparently) because it has the highest damage, then it'd be on par with other builds thus more diversity, because other builds (non-Focus) would have the same power?

Rage could use adjustment on its own as well. % ignored in particular. Crits as well, hence why players hate luck because Crits ignore 45%. If you cut Crits to say 33% (from 45%) and Rage to 40% (from 45%), then the impact of both would be lowered. IA would not only be weaker on Rage (not as devastating), but Crits occuring wouldn't be as powerful but still stronger than normal attack - which is the point exactly. Not as game changing as well, since Crits can change the tide of the battle easily.
AQ Epic  Post #: 8
4/16/2013 23:57:31   
goldslayer1
Member

@trans

i dont think nerfing focus is the key here.
i just said i had 0, and infernal is doing this much. nerfing focus isn't stopping infernal android from doing this much damage on 0 focus.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 4/16/2013 23:59:40 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 9
4/17/2013 5:57:42   
Ranloth
Banned


 Derp, that's why I said changing how rage a little could deal with it. Only because Focus 0 + Tech abuse AND Technician (takes a turn + only TMs have it), it doesn't mean that Focus isn't the problem. Who has the Energy to spend on high Technician? Who has a turn to waste to boost themselves? Not everyone can do such combo, and only because one class can, it doesn't mean it's effective.

Your example of low 40s. You'd need almost 200 Tech; taken from here http://epicduelwiki.com/w/Robot_Technology_Bonus ; 183 Tech = 28-32 + 12 +0 = 40-44 damage BEFORE defences. Rage will ignore 45% of defences, so if it was to be 20 Res, then 9 Res would be ignored and 11 stays. Damage after defences = 29-33
Using 30 Res, 14 Res is ignored so 16 Res is used for defence. Damage is 24-28 instead. Using 40 Res... and so on. The higher res, the lower it gets with your example. To hit your low 40s, you've either had over 200 Tech OR your opponent had no Resistance. Simple as. Mind giving more realistic example? Perhaps a proof in form of your stats and screenshot? Numbers are proving your example wrong so it's unbelievable.

If you're gonna say it was a Rage + Crit, well should've said so. There's a reason why I mentioned altering Rage and Criticals but no. >_>
AQ Epic  Post #: 10
4/17/2013 6:09:35   
goldslayer1
Member

@trans
ur calculation is wrong.
ur not taking into account the damage increase IA gets each turn.

at 146 tech robot has 22-26 +12 damage
so its 34-38
then X 1.3 after 10th round.
34 X 1.3 = 45 (rounded up)
38 X 1.3 = 50 (rounded up)
so its 45-50 without technician

with a lvl 1 technician which gives me 29 more tech
i now have 175 (1 tech short of another damage lvl)

which is 26-30 +12
38 X 1.3 = 50 (rounded up)
42 X 1.3 = 55 (rounded up)
so its 50-55 damage.

its very much possible to hit 40s if ur enemy has less than 30 resistance total.

this is just rage alone. no crits.

and IIRC, passive shields get bypassed in rages.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 4/17/2013 6:10:50 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 11
4/17/2013 6:14:01   
Ranloth
Banned


 Ah, I forgot IA has damage increase still. I had Gamma Bot in mind. But nevertheless, you're not assuming two things - high Tech and Technician. Not every build can do both, and not every class has Tech-boosting skills like TMs. You take a turn to use Technician (+ Energy but shouldn't be an issue) and that leaves you open. Also, AFAIK, you should have low weapon damage and low Defence, which is what many builds can exploit - especially with BL that gives more HP back when more damage is dealt.

So Technician is for TMs, thus you can bump off few damage. This is 45-50 without. You're restricted to Tech so once your EP is gone (and enemy can keep it low with core(s) or EP drain + they end up with 0 EP so Assimilation won't work IF you have it), then they can kill you easily. The way to deal with IA is to tank it out, basically. You ARE expected to see high damage, yes. And it can be done with Focus & not being restricted like you are. This is why I've mentioned bumping Rage's ignore from 45% to 40% which would have a little effect but still less damage.

With passive Armors, that's why they are the weakest out of the top 3 (Reroute, BloodLust, Armor). If it wasn't ignored, this'd provide effective boost to classes that own them. Especially Mercenaries which struggle (except for Support).

< Message edited by Trans -- 4/17/2013 6:15:32 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 12
4/17/2013 6:18:15   
goldslayer1
Member

well its not exactly a waste as u call it. if i have no other options but to use strike, i rather us technician and deal about 5-8 more damage per attack that i have later on and tank a little more.

but even then, damage is still too good without technician.

and about the energy drainers, theres been too many matches that i won where i was EMPed twice by high EMPs.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 4/17/2013 6:20:04 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 13
4/17/2013 6:23:33   
Ranloth
Banned


 It is a waste depending how one looks at it. For some it could come in handy, but for others it will end up being a waste of a turn (you can get striked with Energy weapon and faster rage, a lot faster). Depends on how one looks at it, as I've said.

So this leaves few solutions:
  • Diminishing returns on Robot Technology Bonus
  • Focus to give +5 damage instead of +6
  • Altering Rage and Crits to reduce the luck impact + lower the abuse (different story, not necessarily IA-only)
  • Nerf IA again which will cause even more rants.

    Ideally, top 3 would be the best solution. Or #1 and only, which would affect everyone anyway. #3 is a different story, but if #1 was done properly then #2 wouldn't need to be done because there'd be no reason to do so. Lastly, #4 fixes a problem for one Bot. Focus can still have its own issues.
    • AQ Epic  Post #: 14
    4/17/2013 8:57:00   
    xyzman
    Member

    		I too agree that IA is OPed. I use a 5 focus TLM build with 30 resistance. When I rage at turn 8->10 i can deal 60 dam even against one with as high res as mine, not to mention plus from armor.
    I think low health is one of the reasons. How about health increase by 2 for 1 stat until a certain amount, say 90 or so?
    And I think Diminishing return on Robot Technology bonus is also a good thing to implement.
    AQW Epic  Post #: 15
    4/25/2013 2:10:24   
    H O L L O W
    Member

    		Yeah, someone with 0 focus did 38 damage to me on rage and my def res is 37-37. Nerf it to 110%. Supported.
    Post #: 16
    4/25/2013 2:44:19   
    Dual Thrusters
    Member

    		110%

    That's like 5 extra damage -_-

    And only usable once?

    useless piece of junk
    MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 17
    4/25/2013 3:35:34   
    Xendran
    Member

    		It's crazy in 2v2 because you'll get hit for 27+27+27+27 in one round of this crap.

    EDIT:

    For a solution make it 85 - 120% and give the special an energy cost of (10+(focus*2))*(charge)

    Full Charge Costs:
    5: 24
    4: 22
    3: 20
    2: 17
    1: 14
    0: 12

    Minimum Charge Costs:
    5: 17
    4: 16
    3: 14
    2: 12
    1: 10
    0: 9

    < Message edited by Xendran -- 4/25/2013 3:55:54 >
    AQ DF Epic  Post #: 18
    4/25/2013 5:12:51   
    Blitzex/Sr. Zeph
    Banned


    		 120% Would already be enough xendran.
    No point in giving it an energy cost.
    Epic  Post #: 19
    4/25/2013 5:35:29   
    Xendran
    Member

    		Remember that currently the special is like a free energy version of level 3 bludgeon with a level 41 weapon.
    AQ DF Epic  Post #: 20
    4/25/2013 11:26:37   
    Tushar
    Member

    		I am techmage and i use caster build with like 39-45 resistance...
    A level 32 mercenary did 57 no me on 9th turn as usual on rage...
    Players having this robot always say if It's OP go get yourself one...
    I already posted about this 2 times...
    Epic  Post #: 21
    4/25/2013 11:44:18   
    Blitzex/Sr. Zeph
    Banned
    quote:

    Remember that currently the special is like a free energy version of level 3 bludgeon with a level 41 weapon.

    Poison Spores is equal to a max lvl'ed Venom strike yet i dont hear you complaining about that special...
    Epic  Post #: 22
    4/25/2013 12:04:34   
    Xendran
    Member

    		Now i remember why i stopped posting on these forums, it's borderline impossible to have a rational discussion about anything, which is unfortunate. I guess ill stick to poe.
    AQ DF Epic  Post #: 23
    4/25/2013 12:28:24   
    Blitzex/Sr. Zeph
    Banned


    		 Because youre asking for nerfs on something while not looking at some similarities.
    Like the Dage gun fix, it's damage scales the same as all other multis yet you only want that damage fixed.

    Same as now, stating it is the same as something so it should get nerfed, while their is a similar issue but with another special yet you say nothing about that one.
    Strange if you ask me.

    < Message edited by Blitzex/Sr. Zeph -- 4/25/2013 12:29:13 >
    Epic  Post #: 24
    4/25/2013 12:32:11   
    Xendran
    Member

    		Multis have energy costs, scale with stats, and dont scale with equipment damage. They are MUCH harder to balance because of this, and not worth the time right now.
    I don't have enough experience with poison to have a proper opinion on its balance.

    One thing at a time.
    AQ DF Epic  Post #: 25
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